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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 15th Mar 2015, 10:37
  #16721 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
 
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There is no "one" aboriginal tradition and consequently no "one size fits all" solution to whichever "problem" is under consideration
Indeed Cooda! On the wall of a corridor of a Hospital here in the Riverland district of South Australia there is a poster of a map of the various Aboriginal Tribes known to exist just prior to White settlement.

From memory there were/are around 50 different tribes, just in what is now SA alone.

I find it somewhat bemusing to be told that each and every tribe had both 'Welcome to Country' and 'Traditional Smoking Ceremonies."

A former workmate of mine who is part Aboriginal has definite views on such subjects. They are not suitable for posting here!!
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Old 15th Mar 2015, 10:42
  #16722 (permalink)  
 
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It's a straight forward question usually covered in most philosophy courses in where we establish our bias in ethics.
Intellectual [email protected] from the huggy fluffy side university to try and make themselves believe they are intellectuals. Its nothing but another term to encompass frames of reference. Fairly well everyone with half a brain knowns they see things from their own frame of reference and makes appropriate allowances for it.

In this case its irrelevant to the problem.

Some believe ethics are inclusive of all populations(cultures) and some believe they can be exclusive and mono cultural in construct.
Beliefs are just that, not fact. What is a fact is we are animals, and even in the animal kingdom there is social order amongst groups. There is also consequences if there is non compliance.

Maybe your right, maybe we need to encompass some aboriginal values, like the ones metered out to members of groups who don't comply

To wit: in western culture it is wrong to kill anyone
Well blatantly wrong, it depends on what part of western culture, what temporal period and the circumstances.

, in some tribal culture it is wrong only to kill inside the tribe. Killing someone outside the group is of no consequence
Again wrong, depends on what tribes and when.

Which "aboriginal tradition"?
Actually half true, but add in that, which one? The reality is, for the majority of the Australian aboriginies their culture is for all intents and purposes long gone and buried. In some cases a certain unamed University has actually had to train some tribes in their own culture to give "Aboriginal awarness" courses. This is of course after the culture has been appropriately sanitized to get rid of some of the more unsavory aspects to our western bias, that even the huggy fluffys can't accept.

Now if some can apply that to the aboriginal tradition the discussion could develop into an exchange of ideas
No need, we know, or knew how to assimilate other cultures, mankind has been doing it for thousands of years successfully, though sometimes a bit harshly. Along with the modern method of bringing up children and all the other huggy fluffy things we seem to be doing, we are failing. Like every thing else its about balance, stick and carrot.

At the end of the day, they are no different to any other human being, and the same laws of nature govern them as us.
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Old 15th Mar 2015, 20:58
  #16723 (permalink)  
 
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Rh200 cultural practices such as FGM, child brides or slavery, I make no allowance for. This means my ethical viewpoint is exclusive.

Which western culture condones murder?

Some tribes means the same as depends on which tribe and when. Refer to MTOW's post

Your lfinal paragraphs show both contempt for others and a breathtaking close mindedness that can never be breached
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 00:57
  #16724 (permalink)  
 
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Which western culture condones murder?
No culture I know of condones murder. Murder is purely the illegal killing. legal killing is not murder. Hence any culture can kill if its legal to do in regards to their cultural circumstances, hence its not murder.

For example honor killings are not murder in some countries, they are just killings.

Your lfinal paragraphs show both contempt for others and a breathtaking close mindedness that can never be breached
Actually my contempt is for towards closed minded people who hypocritically make judgments based on pseudo science, then in the other breadth condemn other peoples beliefs. If your going to pretend to make judgents and solutions on science, then do it properly and unemotionally.

As for closed mindedness, a bit rich considering I'm the one who says there needs to be a stick and carrot approach, not just an extreme approach.
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 01:29
  #16725 (permalink)  
 
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You win Rh200 my head is about to explode following the twists and turn backs of your thoughts. You have turned my viewpoint into yours and expect me to argue it.
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 01:44
  #16726 (permalink)  
 
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Can we move on from the petty bickering about the indigenous population culture or lack of?

Yet another instance of the Law of Unintended Consequences taking a big bite.

In the early 1980's we were paying a mortgage that was demanding 18% interest. Older retirees who had saved all their lives were then able to live on their interest, with little call on the government for age pensions.

So come the 2010's and, out of total stupidity by those who seek to manage the economy, the interest on savings is non-existent, even to the extent that inflation means even the initial sum is of a decreasing value. And strangely enough there is a significant increase in retirees, no longer being able to live on their savings, having to call on the government for an age pension.

OMG, how coud this happen says Joe H the F*ckwit. " We can't afford to support all these people we have ripped off". "We need an Intergenerational Report" as if to suggest that the older generation are responsbile.

Well Mr idiot Joe, it's the older generation whose savings are being used to support younger investors with ludicrously low interest rates that you and yours have engineered. Yet another instance of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

.
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 02:32
  #16727 (permalink)  
 
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True, but if you want to blame an entity for interest rates suggest you blame the banks. They have more control over it than the government.

Supply and demand...if the banks were vying for these "savings" then presumably there would be some competition for this money and rates to attract it. Perhaps there just aren't big lumps of cash looking for a bank any more...so not much supply...and with the banking system "real" money deposited isn't needed when they can magic it out of thin air...so not much demand.

I wonder if this lack of funds for retirees can be linked to the social engineering that decided we were all too stupid to manage our money so Nanny had to force us into compulsory superannuation? It doesn't seem to have worked very well, does it.
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 04:18
  #16728 (permalink)  
 
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But the Reserve Bank sets the base rate, which is in itself based on criteria set by the government. Worldwide it has been decided that people who spend, spend, spend are more valuable than those who save.

Perhaps I was meant for a different era.

Micawber is known for asserting his faith that "something will turn up". This has formed the basis for the Micawber Principle, based upon his observation:
"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. "
"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery."
Misery now applies to the former not the latter one suspects.
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 05:03
  #16729 (permalink)  
 
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Well Mr idiot Joe, it's the older generation whose savings are being used to support younger investors with ludicrously low interest rates that you and yours have engineered.
Simplistic nonsense.

Interest rates at 18% means the nations saving are being eroded by inflation, and business cannot afford to borrow at 22% so they contract their workforce, giving rise to unemployment. The interest rates set by RBA are based on a whole basket of currencies and exchange rates. If they set 22% tomorrow we would be flooded with other currencies chasing the best return, but the interest paid to the depositors has to come from somewhere. Our interest rates are low primarily because the mining boom is over and commodity prices have all but collapsed.

You can't blame Joe Hockey for that, but the fiscal problems we have now are partly caused by Wayne Swan (an effwit of the highest order), Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard who put everything on credit card for the next generation to pay.
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 05:10
  #16730 (permalink)  
 
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You can't blame Joe Hockey for that, but the fiscal problems we have now are partly caused by Wayne Swan (an effwit of the highest order), Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard who put everything on credit card for the next generation to pay.
People were puttng everything on credit back in John Howards day, and for most of his tenure.
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 05:29
  #16731 (permalink)  
 
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People were putting everything on credit back in John Howards day, and for most of his tenure.
Yes, in that time the economy was strong and the budget was in surplus under the leadership of Howard and Costello. The nation and the people could afford to use credit cards back then.
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 07:17
  #16732 (permalink)  
 
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What rates the Reserve bank set and what the retails banks and other lenders offer their customers are two completely different things!

The banks gave all kinds of reasons not to pass Reserve bank rate cuts on in full to lenders, but the main reason was the greed of them and their shareholders...of course a lot of the shareholders actually being Mr and Mrs Average Australian's compulsory superannuation.

Same guy who started the whole superannuation rort also decided to privatise the Commonwealth Bank. (As well as Qantas and the Federal airports) I blame much of Australia's financial issues at the door of Mr Keating and his simpering sycophant, Swan.
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 08:19
  #16733 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PinkusDickus View Post
The nation and the people could afford to use credit cards back then.
They never thought about whether it was sustainable. In that sense they are no better than Swannie and Rudd.
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 13:22
  #16734 (permalink)  
 
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Australian households awash with debt: Barclays

Australian households awash with debt: Barclays

I suspect the response will be "It's Fairfax, what would you expect", and "its definitely the previous governments fault".
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 16:44
  #16735 (permalink)  
 
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I'd say it was the responsibility of the householders.. Why do they include small business debt in household debt though?
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 20:54
  #16736 (permalink)  
 
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Household debts been rising for years. Its a result of several reasons, the main being systematic spending levels beyond ones means.

This in itself is a result of how we as a society have become self obsessed pieces of sh!t worried about ourselves and what materialistic [email protected] we can get.

And don't give me the Oh I'm poor line, the vast majority of excess spending is on [email protected] We have lost our self control, and its further exasperated by advertising.
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 22:51
  #16737 (permalink)  
 
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Slight change of topic: the NSW State election has brought up an interesting development, with a little known (and even more interestingly named) Party gaining the top position on the Upper House voting slip. The No Land Tax Party, led by a Mr Jones, who has an 'interesting' past, even by the hard to get under standards of NSW politics, has fielded candidates in 93 Lower House electorates as well as the Upper House (where Mr Jones holds the #1 position on its ticket). Mr Jones has been banned from holding a board position in any licenced club in NSW for 3 years after his involvement in some very questionable activities in the Calabrian Club in Sydney.

They are advertising for workers to hand out how to vote cards on election day at a modest $30 an hour - but are offering bonusus of $200 if their candidate gets 10% of the vote at an individual worker's booth and $500 if their candidate gets 20% of the vote. They have also admitted to dealing with Glenn Drury, the so-called 'preference whisperer', who, by some very clever jiggling of preferences, oversaw Ricky Muir get a Senate seat at the last federal election in WA with something like .05% of the primary vote.

Fielding 93 Lower House candidates and a full team for the Upper House involves big money, and questions are being asked just who these people are, with the name Tripodi surfacing. Scoring the top slot on the voting slip, and having such a catchy name as 'The No Land Tax Party' almost assures this mob - whoever they are - of getting a sizeable donkey vote, perhaps even enough to get Mr Jones and who knows how many of his Party members into Upper House seats.

Maybe we're closer to being that Banana Republic Paul Keating told us we were at risk of becoming than many realise.
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 22:51
  #16738 (permalink)  
 
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In the interests of maintaining the "economy", successive governments have had no issues with their citizens "spending on things they don't need with money they don't have". They have even gone to great lengths to support it.

Surely there must have been some recognition that at some point in time the piper must be paid. One positive from Rudd was that he gave money to pensioners to spend, whereas Howard and Abbott have just made it easier to borrow. I shudder at the prospect for future years. When the oil-rich Arabs and corrupt Chinese billionaires decide they want their money back things could get interesting.
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Old 16th Mar 2015, 23:06
  #16739 (permalink)  
 
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No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au
Interesting article, if a little unhealthy for one’s blood pressure! I love the bleating about how hard it is to make ends meet, however I bet they can find money for tatts, booze and cigarettes. I reckon it would be fair to say that most people know someone who is rorting welfare. I have a sister in law who has never worked in her life and has four children form three partners.
In my opinion both sides of politics share blame for Australia’s welfare dependency and are well aware of how much it is costing us (about 45% of budgetary expenditure, I believe) and what needs to be done to fix it. However given Australia’s love of welfare, no party will win government with welfare restraint as part of their platform.
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Old 17th Mar 2015, 01:10
  #16740 (permalink)  
 
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I know a guy who is in perfect health and is a drummer so obviously all limbs fully functioning, who is always bragging how he is on the DSP for life and will never have to work for a living. the band recently broke up due to his worsening drug habit.
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