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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 11th Mar 2015, 07:24
  #16681 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
 
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Heard Noel Pearson on the ABC radio get stuck into the PM's comment re the remote settlements and thought I heard him say that there are remote Whitefella settlements that would not exist without the taxpayer funding them.

Really?????

Can someone name one for me?
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Old 11th Mar 2015, 08:44
  #16682 (permalink)  
 
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Darwin
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Old 11th Mar 2015, 09:46
  #16683 (permalink)  
 
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Canberra. .
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Old 11th Mar 2015, 10:27
  #16684 (permalink)  
 
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Having lived and worked in East Arnhem Land for a number of years, the trouble with the "Outstation" system is that, while yes it does allow the locals to live the "idyllic" (romanticized?) lifestyle they have lived for 40000 years, it is also expected that all the trappings of 21 century life are also included. Thus even though there is no one to call, the public phones are installed and maintained at great cost. The only access is by light aircraft or 4wd track, so there is no industry or often any employment, but the dole is still paid even though there is no chance of work. Schools are built, staffed, equipped, and maintained, even though truancy is rife, but it's the white mans fault that education is below the national average, and there's no where to use the education anyway. Medical clinics are built, staffed, equipped, and maintained, but it's still expected that the government will come and take them to the nearest hospital when they feel sick. 30 people living in the bush have satellite internet installed, even though they have no running water. The waste of government money is profligate.
I remember the Mayor of Alice Springs being pilloried because he refused to install showers and drinking taps on the bank of the Todd River where a camp had been set up, because he said that they had just installed them 50 metres up the river where the camp had just been, and were not going spend the rate-payers money every time someone sat down for a couple of days.
One of the islands of the north coast had a jetty built, and tracks bulldozed to a new settlement site chosen by the locals, building materials shipped in and transported at great cost, and construction of the dwellings almost completed, when the "owners" decided that all the gear needed to be moved to the other side of the island because the "fishing was better". And it was.
To be blunt, it is a "Lifestyle" decision. Half their luck to have it pandered to. Good on TA for pointing out to the hand-wringers that a few people who choose to live in the middle of the great fcuk all, for whatever reason, cannot expect the same services that larger communities get.
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Old 11th Mar 2015, 12:01
  #16685 (permalink)  
 
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I could name a pilot friend who, quite some years ago now, (in the 80s), was chartered in a light twin to fly from Darwin to a remote settlement with a load of family sized buckets of Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Your taxes at work.
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Old 11th Mar 2015, 14:34
  #16686 (permalink)  
 
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Congratulations, Fubaar.
You've taken this discussion to another level.
Look forward to your further contributions.
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Old 11th Mar 2015, 14:52
  #16687 (permalink)  
 
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Traffic,
With all due respect - and deference to your personal experience, your post indicates that you're not really looking at the BIG picture.

Power tussles, vested interests, well-meaning city huggy-fluffs, lack of cultural awareness and political agendas...
They all contribute to the mess that's been allowed to go on for way too long now.

A positive and sensitive contribution (tempered by a bit of experience) would be welcome.

Any ideas?
Please let's know.
.

Last edited by Stanwell; 11th Mar 2015 at 15:05.
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Old 11th Mar 2015, 20:37
  #16688 (permalink)  
 
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I've heard directly from from a worker in indigenous health that the RFDS is also described as the äboriginal taxi service". When a family living in a "lifestyle"" settlement wants to go to the big smoke, they feign a medical condition (generally using a child) and the whole family pile aboard with the patient for the trip to hospital and back.

He used his own aircraft to deliver his medical services, and was extremely reluctant to stay overnight at any remote lifestyle settlements for fear of vandalism and fuel theft.
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Old 11th Mar 2015, 21:03
  #16689 (permalink)  
 
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The BIG picture is that life has moved on from the stone age.

I realise all the issues that have caused and still contribute to the situation. However, we can go down the huggy-fluff route of providing a group of people with a cotton wool fenced reservation system where the state provides for all of their needs (outside of cultural), and which creates a dependancy mindset, yet more feelings of exclusion and social inequality, and no hope for the future. It also just entrenches all of the issues that cause the ongoing problems we have today. Or, the harsh reality can be faced, and you move forward. At the end of the day, all welfare and goverment services are paid for by somebody. As long as those somebodies are prepared to keep paying, then the status quo can remain. The trouble is is that there is an "industry" deeply committed to making sure that that status quo is sacrosanct. The reaction to the PM stating the obvious (with a bad metaphor l'll admit) is proof of that.
Equality works both ways.

Last edited by Traffic_Is_Er_Was; 11th Mar 2015 at 21:37.
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Old 11th Mar 2015, 22:42
  #16690 (permalink)  
 
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The trouble is is that there is an "industry" deeply committed to making sure that that status quo is sacrosanct.
touché T_I_E_W

The welfare industry is dependent upon a continuation of the miserable state of existence for many indigenous Australians, and while it exists they have a job. These so called "servants of the public" don't have to endure the conditions themselves, but rather sit in a comfortable office in Canberra (or elsewhere) fat, dumb and happy. It's only those unselfish individuals committed to improving indigenous welfare that work at the coal face.

Purely on an economic basis, the cost of delivering the service would eat an enormous slice of the pie, while the actual delivery is inefficent and misdirected, mishandled and more than likely, misappropriated. The indigenous welfare spend is more than double that of mainstream spend, and there are some facts and figures here:
Rivers of money flow into the sand

If you are concerned about where this is all heading, I urge you to read the report in full, but here are some pertinent excerpts:

Most indigenous funding is for the 75,000 indigenous Australians in remote communities. When allocated across to these remote indigenous Australians, government expenditure is more than $100,000 per person per year—$400,000 per family of four. In three years, this amounts to more than $1 million per family. For such sums an indigenous family could pay rent in Toorak or Vaucluse and send its children to a posh private school.
and:

Current welfare to individuals and communities debilitates their capacity to take decisions and use their initiative. People who used to be responsible for their lives now sit under trees, play cards, and wait for “the government” to provide. Millions of dollars are on offer, except to resolve unaddressed land ownership issues and measures such as long-term leases for home ownership.

The excuse that “fixing indigenous problems is too hard” is used as an excuse for lack of progress. But we know that a mix of communal and private property rights and private enterprise delivers prosperity in mainstream Australia. And we know that no society in the world has achieved prosperity without these. Introducing private property rights side-by-side with communal property rights, mainstream education, enforcing the same civic standards as in the rest of Australia and reducing excessive welfare would rescue remote communities. It would also be far cheaper than continuing to fund existing failed policies.

Emeritus Professor Helen Hughes is a senior fellow at the Centre for Independent Studies and Mark Hughes is an independent researcher
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Old 11th Mar 2015, 23:34
  #16691 (permalink)  
 
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The trouble is is that there is an "industry" deeply committed to making sure that that status quo is sacrosanct.
Much like the equally horrible situation in Africa today, this one sentence completely explains the hopeless situation many if not most indigenous Australians endure today.

I'd love to say it was a case of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions", but the cynic in me cannot allow that. Too many, from the mandarins right down to the mere 'spear carriers' in the Aboriginal Welfare INDUSTRY (for that's what it is) know exactly what they're perpetuating. They want to keep their jobs - and climb the promotion tree right to retirement - and that career path will only remain available while the "poor unfortunate noble savages" remain just that.

Everyone* - particularly the Aborigines - would benefit enormously if the government dropped all the reverse discrimination enjoyed by anyone declaring him or herself as Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander and every citizen in this nation was treated exactly the same.

* (Everyone except those with burgeoning careers in the Aboriginal Industry and the MANY, some of them blond haired and blue eyed, who have stumbled upon a nice little earner by milking the system for all it's worth. The absolute rubbish we endure from these "professional victims" who have very little Aboriginal blood should be ditched immediately. If there was some disadvantage rather than advantage to declaring oneself as Aboriginal, 99% of these people would be denying their Aboriginality.)
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Old 11th Mar 2015, 23:53
  #16692 (permalink)  
 
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Another issue is that traditional Aboriginal culture (at least the bits I saw of it in Arnhem Land where they try to live as traditionally as possible, and have really only been exposed to the west for 70 or so years) and western culture are not that compatible. We foster a work ethic, where you are expected to go to the coal face for your allotted hours, exchange your labour/time/knowledge for monetary compensation and then provide for yourself, while trying to better your circumstances. For a semi-nomadic hunter-gatherer, the tribe does enough to survive and that's it. Anything else is a waste of valuable energy. After you gain enough food and shelter to get you through the day, you sit down and talk or sing or paint but you conserve your energy because there may not be a meal or shelter tomorrow. You're not tilling fields, building structures, husbanding livestock because you don't have to. It's not the way you're wired. Now if that meal and shelter is nowadays gained without much effort on your behalf, then that doesn't leave much else to do. You can sit under a tree and talk and sing and paint all day! You and I looking around the township/camp will see a lot of things that need doing, but not them. They just don't see things that way. And if, for the last 40 or 50 years, someone else has always come along and done those things for them, why would their attitudes change?
it's very hard to change 40000 years of programming basically overnight.
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Old 12th Mar 2015, 02:11
  #16693 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
 
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Cooda and Fubaar; Very funny!! And I knew someone would come up with those two places!!

Well.... Canberra anyway.
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Old 12th Mar 2015, 02:47
  #16694 (permalink)  
 
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Traffic,
Spot on!


Compare that with the prevailing attitude in our society...
"I don't know where I'm going - but if I don't hurry, I'll be late."
.
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Old 12th Mar 2015, 03:21
  #16695 (permalink)  
 
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Ovation.
Re your post #16735..

I've had a bit to do with the RFDS on the operations side.
That second-hand story about the "Aboriginal taxi-service" is, putting it politely, at best, disingenuous.
A better word to describe it, I think, starts with 'B' and ends with 'T'.

You are casting aspersions on the professionalism of the Service.
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Old 12th Mar 2015, 04:27
  #16696 (permalink)  
 
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Stanwell, rein in the mock outrage. It's not just the RFDS that is abused. Many years ago now, during a long running air traffic controller's strike - (anyone else here old enough to remember how many of those we used to endure year on?) - I was called out on a medevac to Broken Hill (RAAF Herc) to bring a seriously ill (white, Anglo Saxon and very much of the squattocracy class) woman to Sydney for urgent medical treatment. It was around Easter, when the Royal Agricultural Society held a grand ball in Sydney as part of the Royal Easter Show and much enjoyed by the toffee country folk.

Long story short: the seriously ill lady walked off the aircraft at Richmond fully made up and with her ball gown in a carry bag over her shoulder and I very much suspect that the suit bag carried by the 'concerned hubby' contained a tuxedo. Needless to say, we were pretty pissed off to see this, but when we told the boss, all he did was shrug his shoulders. Apparently, it wasn't the first time he'd seen something similar.

Another example of your taxes at work. I have to say that that incident pissed me off far more than any example I later encountered with Aboriginals rorting the system, as those very wealthy people (they were station owners out of Broken Hill) should have known better, but were utterly shameless and made little attempt to disguise what they were doing.
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Old 12th Mar 2015, 04:52
  #16697 (permalink)  
 
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.
Fair comment, MTOW.


Two negative aspects of this issue are apparent:
1. The attitude of a number of Aboriginals.. "You owe me, whitey!".
2. "We just HAVE to get to that Ball - Do you know WHO I am? and, Do you have any idea of how much I've paid in taxes over the years?"
.

Last edited by Stanwell; 12th Mar 2015 at 05:14.
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Old 12th Mar 2015, 07:03
  #16698 (permalink)  
 
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The aborigines are no different to any other human being on the planet. The fact is, integration is about forcing functions, Its just math.

If the forcing function is weak comparable to what you have, then it won't be solved, we have the same problem with various other ethnic groups since we have all gone huggy fluffy.

There has to be a balanced approach utilising both the proverbial stick and carrot.
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Old 12th Mar 2015, 08:19
  #16699 (permalink)  
 
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This may be apocryphal, but whether that's the case or not, I believe there is some truth to the urban myth(?) that the failure of integration/assimilation (and therefore, the 'success' of multiculturalism?) can be seen in any suburb in France (and perhaps, equally in Australia?) with a high percentage of migrants from Arabic countries by noting the direction the satellite dishes in most homes are pointing.

Many, if not most, are pointing to pick up the Arabic satellite channels rather than the local satellite services. People can (and many do) come to the West and remain almost wholly enmeshed in the culture they left. Except when they pick up their Centrelink payments.

This clip, from Adelaide, is worth watching.
Farah 4 Kidz - Today Tonight Adelaide

Edited to add that I understand that the opposite is the case in many North African homes. All the satellite dishes point to pick up the French satellites - for the porn freely available on some French channels. People are funny, aren't they? The ones who haven't made it to the West want to be there and to enjoy what's available there and those who've made it yearn for an idealised version of what they've abandoned or supposedly escaped.
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Old 12th Mar 2015, 08:58
  #16700 (permalink)  
 
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2 phantom pages now. The scissors are really out now!
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