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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 28th Jan 2015, 22:49
  #15981 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Perth Western Australia
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High rise high density housing and apartments popping up everywhere is great for short term profit but is turning Brisbane and other QLD cities into vertical slums and strangling the current 1950s infrastructure, increasing stress, and leaving long term QLDers jaded.
People need to stop living in the past, the world and society changes. That sort of development evolution is happening every where. Its nothing but an attempt to increase efficiencies and keep cost down.

If you don't like it move, it will happen no matter who's in government. I like the old style so if it p!sses me enough I go out bush. The same goes for farmers station owners etc.

There a lot more at stake than our own little issues, the system we have isn't perfect, but by and large its heading in the right direction.
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Old 28th Jan 2015, 23:40
  #15982 (permalink)  
 
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That sort of development evolution is happening every where. Its nothing but an attempt to increase efficiencies and keep cost down.
It certainly increases efficiencies and a lot of people nowadays don't want a garden.....but keeping costs down? Only for the developer.

Pre-Cyclone Tracey, the traditional housing lot here was 900-1200 m2.

Post-Tracey until the Labor win in 2001, it was 800 m2, with, say 5% getting down to 400 m2.

Labor did bugger all to turn anything off for 10 years; a period characterized by increasing demand for housing and easily available bank finance. Funnily enough, house prices soared.

Smaller lots have to be cheaper, right? So the trend with recent sub divisions has been for increasing proportions of smaller lots, down to 150 m2 in one case. All in the name of affordable housing.

The most recent subdivision proposal in my area was for 210 lots, none larger than 300 m2. The argument was that the government wanted the developer to achieve a price point and this lot size was the only way to do it.

However, when presenting its financial argument, the developer was basing his comparisons on the most expensive land in Darwin. Whereas, the NT News recently reported that a McMansion in my neck of the woods could be had for the cost of a run-down, ex-Housing Commission hovel in Darwin.

Perhaps, more tellingly, the Valuer-General has recently assessed the UCV of existing local lots capable of supporting triplex development at $250 m2 where this latest sub division's price-pointed, mini-lots are on the market at $500 m2. Nice profit margin, if you can get it.

I won't go into the problem of small lot, intensive development in the semi-arid tropics; other than to observe that there has been a significant increase in reported anti-social behavior as the houses have gotten closer together. But this is surely only co-incidence.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 00:53
  #15983 (permalink)  
 
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16,000+ posts and the thread is still open. Thank you, moderators, for being compassionate and guiding as needed, and only occasionally having to wield the big stick.

Time for a short humorous interlude:

A man walking on a Gold Coast beach finds an old lamp washed up in the sand. Of course he rubs it and out pops a genie. "I know what you've heard before" says the genie, "but the truth is I can grant only 1 wish.

"That's OK" says man, "I wish to live forever"

"Sorry mate, that's the one thing I cannot give".

"OK - then I wish to never die"

"Smart*rse" say G, "you know that's the same thing just put differently. This is your last chance to make a wish".

"OK" says man, "I wish to live until a Labor Government brings in a surplus".

"You [email protected]@rd" says the G, "I really didn't think you could get around it"
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 01:43
  #15984 (permalink)  
 
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I never thought that I would quote the very respectable Mr Andrew Bolt.
"Abbotts pathetically stupid decision to award knighthood to prince Phil"
Probably Tone is betting on some kind of reciprocal arrangement. I give you one, you give me one. We could have Sir Tony of the Abbott. Or would that be Abbot Sir Tony. Might be better off in a monastery.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 02:05
  #15985 (permalink)  
 
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but keeping costs down? Only for the developer.
Its not just about developer costs, society costs. Long term infrastructure etc. Basically person per square meter/ Kilometer. what ever.

Long term transport costs, cost to flush your turd, cost to give you the power to run your aircon. Costs of schooling, hospital and location. Its all an optimisation that you trade one off over the other.

High density living sadely is the norm for large citys, we are just lagging behind
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 03:35
  #15986 (permalink)  
 
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Location: NSW,Australia
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Angry

Why does Toxic Tony cross his legs ??


A. So he can shoot both feet at once !!
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 03:55
  #15987 (permalink)  
 
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Nice one Captn
About time there was a bit of humour on this thread
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 04:34
  #15988 (permalink)  
 
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I would be interested in what the Gold coast region is doing.
Dunno, it's hard to say. Certainly the southern Gold Coast seats are all rusted on LNP, so I don't think there will be any changes. Although Stevens and Barton have made themselves look like prize geese, I think Hell will frieze over before Mermaid goes Labor. I suspect there'll be a swing to Labor and maybe a Katter protest vote, but not enough to threaten any seats except Albert.

Albert in the north of the city is Labor's best chance, and the huge number of campaign signs (from everyone) around the area bear witness to that. It's where all the parties are concentrating their Gold Coast effort.

Issues-wise, TBH most of my friends still live in Brisbane so I'm more across what's bugging people up there. I think there's much more dislike towards the LNP in Brisbane than there is on the Goldie, but Brisbane has always been a fairly Labor town. It's also where the state public service is centred, and where a lot of the job cuts were made.

In all the SEQ cities, I think the big issues are jobs (and lack thereof), cost of living, the economy and to some people (not all), asset sales. However, I think the government's personality is actually one of its biggest albatrosses; most of that comes down to Newman, though Bleije, Driscoll and Stevens all deserve honourable mentions .

The state government is much closer in Brisbane than it is outside the capital (even the Gold Coast feels relatively far away), and everyone knows a guy who knows a story about the Premier or his flunkies being jerks, throwing their weight around or trying to silence dissent. As with Bligh, there have been too many of those stories floating around to be ignored, and IMO they are putting a big dent in the government's reputation, both in terms of popularity, and with respect to their lack of ability to govern without fighting everyone and everything.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 29th Jan 2015 at 09:13. Reason: Thanks P...
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 04:35
  #15989 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Melbourne
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"Our" A.B.C. lost 3.95% of it's group audience across all channels in 2014.There was even a 3.8% drop in the over 55 demographic which is usually their core audience.Obviously I am not alone in switching the boring b*****s off.
P.s. Hi Ethel I notice some of your mates have joined you on here ... smiley added.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 04:41
  #15990 (permalink)  
 
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Speaking of which, where is Andu these days? I notice his username had 'registered user' added to it, which is not usually a good sign ...
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 04:52
  #15991 (permalink)  
 
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I would have preferred Gina Rinehart to have been made a Knight of the Order of Australia, that would have got the dogs howling
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 06:06
  #15992 (permalink)  
 
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At least she's Australian.
Just catching the early news and the headline is day one of the Sydney cafe siege inquest. Apparently Katrina Dawson was killed by a police bullet ricochet . At least they've admitted to it; in a lot of places it would have been covered up.

To be clear, IMO her death was still caused by mud-guts. If it wasn't for his actions the police wouldn't have had to shoot.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 29th Jan 2015 at 08:26.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 06:53
  #15993 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
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The bit I saw said she was killed by several fragments from a ricocheting police bullet. Doesn't make her any less dead but tends to suggest she wasn't deliberately shot by accident. The manager was executed, kneeling down, with a shotgun discharged 75cms behind his head.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 07:23
  #15994 (permalink)  
 
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Some reports say she (the lawyer who was killed by police bullets) was attempting to protect a pregnant woman. If that means she was anywhere put flattened as close to the floor tiles as she possibly could be when the police came in, however noble her motives, she was putting herself at enormous risk.

Any head not absolutely flat to the floor is a potential risk to the storming party - it could be an armed 'sleeper' assistant to the hostage-taker who had not yet shown his/her hand and so has to be treated as a threat - and whether she was hit by a ricochet or not, if she was doing anything but trying to bury herself into the carpet, she was at risk of catching a stray (or maybe even aimed) round.

The coroner said that two policemen expended 23(?) rounds. The TV coverage of the assault led me to believe that they'd fired considerably more rounds than that.

The police probably won't say so, but I'll bet they're cursing the coffee shop manager for his bravery that forced their hand and made them go in in reaction to Monis killing him. They would have much preferred to have waited another hour or so and initiated the assault at a time of their choosing, possibly after Monis had started cat-napping. 3am does that to all of us.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 07:43
  #15995 (permalink)  
 
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I think more people need to know that. Like getting out of a house when it's on fire, doing CPR and staying quiet during an armed hold-up it's not intuitive, particularly in a culture raised on Bruce Willis movies . WIthout being alarmist (after all, most people don't have to escape house fires but we know what to do if it happens) there should be a public safety campaign about it.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 08:15
  #15996 (permalink)  
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Agree with everything you say MTOW, but, unlike Israel, hostage situations and correct reactions are not taught in primary school here in Australia.


People won't want to admit it but the time is fast approaching when the general public are going to have to have made available to them some basic rules about what to do when you find yourself in a hostage situation. The reason I say "made available to them" is because if I said "will have to be instructed in" the civil rights bunch would be all over it like a rash.

I heard a lot of noise too but some of it was from the 'flash bangs', they did use quite a few.


A good film to see, (from 2006), that includes a hostage element, with a twist, is "The Inside Man". Well worth seeing.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 08:44
  #15997 (permalink)  
 
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Not long after the Israelis did the hostage rescue at Entebbe, someone (not the Yanks - might even have been an Israeli film company) made a cheapie movie about it. I seem to remember that there was a scene showing how one of the hostages who was killed stuck his head up and tried to speak to the rescuers as they came into the room where most of the hostages were held. The rescuers shot him.

I agree that maybe the cops should put out an advisory on rules to follow if you're taken hostage. Our too litigious lawyers would probably get involved and make that an impossible project as they'd sue the State if anything even in the slightest didn't go exactly as the police document said it would.

Our current legal system makes Monday morning quarterbacks look like an adoring fan club.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 08:55
  #15998 (permalink)  
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The manager was executed, kneeling down, with a shotgun discharged 75cms behind his head.
With all due respect Parabellum, and if accused of being pedantic I plead guilty, but the Manager was not executed. He was murdered!

I maintain there is a difference.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 09:00
  #15999 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MTOW View Post
Some reports say she (the lawyer who was killed by police bullets) was attempting to protect a pregnant woman. If that means she was anywhere put flattened as close to the floor tiles as she possibly could be when the police came in, however noble her motives, she was putting herself at enormous risk.

Any head not absolutely flat to the floor is a potential risk to the storming party - it could be an armed 'sleeper' assistant to the hostage-taker who had not yet shown his/her hand and so has to be treated as a threat - and whether she was hit by a ricochet or not, if she was doing anything but trying to bury herself into the carpet, she was at risk of catching a stray (or maybe even aimed) round.

The coroner said that two policemen expended 23(?) rounds. The TV coverage of the assault led me to believe that they'd fired considerably more rounds than that.

The police probably won't say so, but I'll bet they're cursing the coffee shop manager for his bravery that forced their hand and made them go in in reaction to Monis killing him. They would have much preferred to have waited another hour or so and initiated the assault at a time of their choosing, possibly after Monis had started cat-napping. 3am does that to all of us.
I think you've gone off half-cocked iro some comments above. Where do you get the idea that the manager was being brave? The coronial inquest heard that he was ordered to kneel on the floor, he complied, and a short time without any further notice he was shot in the back of the head. A police sniper placed in the Ch 7 building reported in and the police then stormed approx 10 sec later. They used 'flash bangs' that give the impression of many rounds being fired (loud bangs and flashes) although only 2 policemen actually fired (I need to recheck this number). Reports are that the second hostage that died was hit by 6 fragments of bullets that ricocheted off hard surfaces. One fragment severed a major blood vessel - the cause of death. Arguably she is an out and out hero, as those bullet fragments may have hit the pregnant hostage she was shielding, and certainly nothing like you make her out to be.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 09:29
  #16000 (permalink)  
 
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Where do you get the idea that the manager was being brave?
Initial media reports were that the manager tried to take the shotgun from the offender. I don't know if that's been submitted to the inquest; if it happened, did it happen before he was ordered to kneel? Is that why he was murdered?

Anyway, if their actions were as reported in the media, whether what they did was actually the best thing to do is immaterial to their bravery. I agree with you David; on what's been reported, they were heroes. They were ordinary people who made decisions to protect other people based upon what they thought was the best thing to do. I'm certainly not dissing them for it, and nor (I believe) are MTOW or parabellum. I don't think they're calling Mrs Dawson an idiot.

However, if there is a tried and tested better way to respond to type of situation, then people need to know that. As a nation we need to have this discussion, without ever diminishing the brave actions of those two people who undoubtedly did what they thought was best.

If a man runs into a burning house to save a child without knowing that he should stay close to the ground and wrap a wet rag around his mouth and nose, then he will probably die. He is still a hero for trying, as were the two siege victims. However, if (as they are) the general public are educated about fires, then another man may crawl into the burning house, rescue the child and survive. He is still a hero, but more importantly he is an alive hero.

Likewise siege situations. Having the public discussion about what they might have done better does not diminish them or their actions.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 29th Jan 2015 at 09:45.
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