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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 14th Jan 2015, 20:07
  #15841 (permalink)  
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chuboy, re the earlier exchange of posts: I was referring to Australia, not Malaysia.


Re Malaysia: when I lived there the first time (early 70s), our neighbours had a amah (more or less a child minder), a young, incredibly competent, well-spoken - (her English was excellent; not the almost pigeon English many employed) - and very intelligent young woman, who, at a guess, would have been around 19. She was Chinese, a Christian, and much loved by all in the Australian family she worked for. I spoke to her one day when we were visiting the neighbours and asked her why she was working as an amah and not going on to university, as she was quite obviously capable of much more.

Her short answer, as if she was speaking to an idiot, explained her situation (in her mind) completely. "University? I'm Chinese."

I was quite new to the country at the time and asked the neighbour later to explain. I wasn't that Chinese Malaysians stopped their daughters going to university. Quite the opposite - they encouraged it, and those who could afford to send their children to higher education paid for them to do so. But poor Malaysian Chinese, (as Mary's family was), had no access to university or higher education. All government assistance for that went to Bumis.

I had a Malaysian friend who was married to an Australian woman. His parents, (Chinese/Indian ethnically) took advantage of the offer to convert and become Bumi Putras when it was offered at the time of federation. they did so purely to give him access to higher education. This decision had paid off handsomely. He was sent to Australia to complete his education, where he met his wife.
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Old 15th Jan 2015, 03:59
  #15842 (permalink)  
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andu, my mistake.

It's always interesting to hear the experiences of others. I can't deny that the policy of bumi puteras is inconsistent with what we consider acceptable in the west. Nevertheless, you'll have to forgive my cynicism for your sudden championing for social equality. Take Muslims out of the picture and I doubt anyone here would care all that much. Unless the WASPs still happened to be the oppressed ones

Domestically, yet another phail from Abbott and Co. After the outgoing health minister hospital-passed a ticking bomb to Sussan Ley in the form of a "Medicare cut", we have been treated to a spectacle the populace should be used to seeing by now - that is, outrage in the news media for about 24-48 hours followed by a spectacular reversal from the instigator of some controversial policy or statement.

I'll preempt Ethel's image spamming with one from my own collection. See if you can get the symbolism

Granted, it's a bit subtle if you only speak Australian English...

How about these if the above went over your head?

In all seriousness though, how is anyone supposed to take this government seriously if they have the bark of a guard dog but the bite of a wet lettuce leaf and the tenacity of a startled rabbit? All-in-all they come off about as rock-solid as a sea cucumber, not good when stability was one of the key images the Coalition wanted to project.

Even when back-flipping on undesirable decisions and policies (and there has been plenty of backflipping on promises which the people did want too), the government remains as unpopular as ever - only now they lack credibility as well.

Tony was overwhelmingly voted in off the back of Labor's squabbling and a well-funded media campaign - not because people everywhere liked him or his team - and it's starting to show. The LNP has lost one state election so far and QLD MPs can take nothing for granted. It's not the end of the road yet, but the proof is in the pudding. "One-term Tony" sounds less and less like the enthusiastic chants of Labor supporters every day.
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Old 15th Jan 2015, 06:15
  #15843 (permalink)  
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I have to agree, chuboy.

I'm a conservative voter and was very relieved when the LNP won the last election, but I'm becoming disillusioned and frustrated with their performance - at least with the perception of their performance given by the media.

At present, I think the media (with the exception of the ABC/Fairfax axis) is reasonably well-disposed to the LNP.

Those in the know say the LNP government is doing much good work that's not reported. If that's the case, why isn't it getting better press? It seems that the government is not selling what good work it's doing, to the press particularly.

While the government is disappointing its supporters (back flipping on changing S 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act, for example) it isn't doing much, if any, damage control to counter the disappointment.

Abbott seems to trust that people will 'do the math' for themselves, and realise what a good outfit he is leading without him having to sell himself or his crew. And if Abbott's failing to convince traditional LNP supporters, how is he going to convince the swinging voters whose votes he needs to stay in government?

I think Abbott's wrong, or at least, poorly advised. Rudd managed to sell a terrible product (himself) by convincing people he had the answers. Gillard simply attacked any opposition.

Abbott is neither selling nor attacking. As a result, a union puppet and sly operator like Shorten is looking like an alternative, when Labor should be in the doghouse for at least the next decade.

Abbott is starting to look spineless - a fatal fault in Australian politics. He needs a kick in the arse. The problem is, he'd probably just turn the other cheek.

Last edited by RJM; 15th Jan 2015 at 06:27.
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Old 15th Jan 2015, 06:21
  #15844 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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chuboy; I really have to agree as well. And I have never voted Labor.

Never will either but?????

The alternatives are slim to non existant and the informal vote is a cop-out.

So what do you do?

RJM: Thank you. You said what I was thinking but could not put into words.
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Old 15th Jan 2015, 06:31
  #15845 (permalink)  
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Glad to oblige, Pinky.
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Old 15th Jan 2015, 06:45
  #15846 (permalink)  
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Sorry but I think you people are being just a tad too impatient.

The bad news and hard budget had to come in the first half of the LNP tenure, the opposition are deliberately dragging it out as long as possible. They, (the opposition), have no interest in the Australian people, only position, power, perks and pensions for themselves and will go to great lengths to achieve this, stuff the country and stuff the people.

I agree it is a shame that the LNP don't do a better PR job for themselves at the moment, but people have short memories and what will count is refreshing the minds of the electorate just before the next election with what they have achieved and what a complete stuff up the ALP made the last time they were in. If they don't do that then I too will be very disappointed in them.
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Old 15th Jan 2015, 06:56
  #15847 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Back too the hot bits again
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What they are backing down, no way!!!
who would of thought it. Knock me over with a feather..
Awaiting the next well thought out plan!
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Old 15th Jan 2015, 07:29
  #15848 (permalink)  
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I really don't care what policies they implement. I just wish they would stick with them.
As I have said before, Tony is trying to be all things to all people. And I have to tell you Tony, it is not working.
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Old 15th Jan 2015, 22:43
  #15849 (permalink)  
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I can't disagree with you over the constant backdowns and the wet lettuce feel this government is presenting, chuboy. However, here's the alternative - and I would hope that very few here would not feel that the alternative is a VERY unpalatable proposition.


Opposition Leader Bill Shorten, the man a majority of Australians would prefer as PM. (according to the polls)

I’M THINKING of setting up a national version of the Darwin Awards; you know, where they give an award to the stupidest way people manage to kill themselves each year, or, as the website puts it, “contribute to human evolution by self-selecting themselves out of the gene pool via death or sterilisation by their own actions”.

When I say “national”, I mean it literally – my Darwin Awards aren’t for people, they’re for nations. I’m going to hand out an annual prize for the dumbest, most imbecilic country on the planet that is setting out to destroy its own comfortable way of life via its own moronic actions.

I’m going to find the one nation that’s doing the equivalent of putting its head out of the train window to see if there’s a tunnel approaching.

And right now, Australia looks like being the 2014 National Darwin Award winner. Why? Because we are among the most collectively stupid people on the planet. Just look at the statistics – or rather, the opinion polls.
Apparently, a majority of us think Bill Shorten would be a better prime minister of our country than Tony Abbott.

Let me run that past you again – slowly this time, really slowly, because it’s obvious there are some pretty slow people out there: a … majority … (in other words, enough voters to win an election) … think … (i.e. have apparently used what passes for their brains and come to this conclusion) … that Bill Shorten … (a bloke who is so empty-headed he once said: “I don’t know what Julia Gillard said, but I agree with every word of it”) … would be a better prime minister … (in other words, be making every single decision every single day for three years that will determine the prosperity and financial success of every one of us and all our children) … than Tony Abbott (a bloke who, regardless of whether you like him or not, has as his sole focus a single-minded determination to fix the economic mess that this country is in).

Come again? Are we for real?

The best Darwin Awards always have a neat slice of bitter irony to them; like the guy who tries to impress his fiancee by climbing on to her balcony – on the 101st floor.

The irony with our National Darwin winner –Australia – is that the very bloke Australians want as their next prime minister was part of the team that got us into our financial mess in the first place.

Worse, Shorten is either so dumb or so devious that he is now opposing the very same $5 billion worth of cuts to spending that he supported when he was in government.

Let’s remind ourselves: when John Howard was booted out, he left about 20 billion bucks in the till. Nice one.

Within a matter of months, Rudd and Swan blew the lot. Then, having got a taste for spending our money, Labor started splashing out billions more that didn’t actually exist, so they borrowed it. And never paid it back.

Bill Shorten, when he wasn’t busy knifing one leader to replace him with another, then knifing that one and replacing her with the first one (clearly a man of strong convictions and sound decision-making skills), sat at the big table and happily splurged our cash. And we want to put him in charge of cleaning up our finances? Darwin Award for Category A Stupidity – tick!
But to win a Darwin you’ve got to actively seek to make your entire situation worse. With Bill in the Lodge, every people smuggler from here toTimbuktu would be punching the air, scrubbing the barnacles off their boats and getting ready for payday as the floodgates opened again.

But the reason Australia is a shoo-in for this year’s National Darwin is because a Shorten prime ministership would help extinguish our current way of economic life virtually overnight.

With Labor back in charge of our money – fuelled by the barely functioning intelligent life form known as the Greens and those guardians of greed the unions – our economy would nosedive into Euro-style stagnation and high unemployment faster than a Euro bullet train. Already in Victoria, only a week after the Libs lost, union thugs are shutting down businesses.

How stupid are we as a nation that we’re not even prepared to pay a tiny amount (the cost of two cups of coffee, or a Happy meal) to visit the doc? Even the Kiwis figured out that a decent healthcare system costs dosh.
How thick are we that we think everybody can go to uni for free? (Who’s supposed to pay for all those computers, teachers, buildings, labs etc that allows students to graduate and get rich? You.)

What sort of dopes are we that we’re prepared to sit back quietly while more than half the population takes more money from the Government in handouts and entitlements than it gives? (I know I’m thick, but even I can do the maths on that one.)

Anybody who thinks Shorten, Plibersek and Bowen would do a better job than Abbott, Morrison, Hockey and Bishop has rocks in their head.

Still, the good thing about Darwin Awards is at least when you go down the gurgler, you know your sheer stupidity has given somebody else a really good laugh. The Chinese, in our case.

Rowan Dean is editor of The Spectator Australia
That's an article worth cutting and pasting and sending on to any leftie mates you may have. If the polls are to be believed, that's over half the population.
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Old 15th Jan 2015, 23:08
  #15850 (permalink)  
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Great article, Andu. Thanks for posting it.

But they're doing it again. Under pressure from Labor (which lost the last election) and the Greens (who are insane), the LNP will 'reconsider' the small Medicare co-payment.
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Old 16th Jan 2015, 01:06
  #15851 (permalink)  
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RJM ..... problem seems to be that every time the federal Govt. attempts to get some sort of financial policy through the "parliament" they are routinely thwarted by some tart who bonked way through an Army "career", a bloke whose main aim in life is to do the biggest burn out in East Gippsland, and a nutter with 2 dads not to mention the rest of the bean patty eaters..... all worth voting for ? No wonder our leaders make us all turn up at the polling station every few months or so with threats of financial penalties if we don't.
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Old 16th Jan 2015, 02:32
  #15852 (permalink)  
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I don't suppose there's ever been a time, if people were really honest with themselves, when a majority of the electorate felt overwhelming trust and respect for their political leadership. The Brits have pretty successfully sold us the line that Churchill was a loved and respected wartime leader, but, having read a few books that dealt with his Prime Ministership during WW2, I think I would be pretty safe in saying that that was just propaganda. The fact that he was voted out of government 5 seconds after winning the war says it all about his popularity with the majority of British voters.

But the fact remains - he was a LEADER, (granted, with many 'warts [and all]'), but a leader none the less. A man willing to make some very hard and politically unpopular decisions for what he saw as the common good - (or what might be quite accurately described as 'national survival'). And so I suppose it would be fair to say that, warts and all, he comes about as close to that mythical political leader who had the respect (if sometime very, very grudging) of the majority of the electorate.

We're in a disturbingly similar situation with the current choice of national leaders in Australia. Tony Abbott has been a real disappointment to many on the conservative side of politics - and for the absolute opposite reasons, an equal disappointment to those on the Left. The conservatives see him as too soft and middle of the road; the Left see him as rabidly right wing (despite glaring evidence to the contrary, evidence that will be studiously ignored or blatantly misreported by the majority of the MSM, particularly the national broadcaster).

So really, Australia finds itself in a situation not unlike the UK in WW2. We're in a battle for survival - or at least survival in some semblance of our current form of society. The enemy might not be as clearly defined as Nazi Germany, but it's one that could crush and destroy our current way of life just as thoroughly, and that enemy is debt.

Put simply, we have been living - and continue to live - beyond our means, in a totally unsustainable la-la land where the current generation continues to push forward an ever-growing debt upon following generations. And warts and all, with both sides displaying disturbing failings, we have a choice between an all too imperfect leader who says he wants to inflict a bit of pain upon us now and rein in that ever-growing debt and another who promises that he will maintain the largesse, giving us whatever we want, and someone else at some time in the future can handle the debt.

Anyone with a modicum of brainpower should be able to see which is the smarter course. However, if the polls are to be believed, more than 50% of voters would seem to going for option 2.

One reason this may be so would seem to me to be the total failure of the Abbott government in getting this simple message across to the voting public, made worse my the mixed message it sends every time it cries poor and then gives another 'n' millions of borrowed dollars away to some half-baked United Nations scheme or US proxy war.

Message: we're broke. Answer: the debt must be repaid. All outlays that infringe in any way on our ability to pay off that debt must be put on hold. Without exception.
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Old 16th Jan 2015, 04:42
  #15853 (permalink)  
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Well said - especially on leadership. Leadership is a strange thing. I'm no leader, but people who are or have been tend to say the same thing: 'the people' respect, and will continue to support, a leader who is firm and definite more than a leader who is conciliatory.

This is made clear by at least three leaders I can think of who have written or commented on this aspect of leadership. Each of them 'endured,. That's probably the best word: Churchill, Thatcher and a soldier - Sir Colin Campbell, who wrote a brilliant book called Having Been A Soldier. All of them had tough jobs. Campbell was in charge of British troops in Aden.
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Old 16th Jan 2015, 05:25
  #15854 (permalink)  
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a bloke whose main aim in life is to do the biggest burn out in East Gippsland, and a nutter with 2 dads not to mention the rest of the bean patty eaters
Must be something about East Gippsland, two dads grew up in Orbost.
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Old 16th Jan 2015, 06:01
  #15855 (permalink)  
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I took a drive a couple of times up into the East Gippsland hinterland when I was based at East Sale. I swear you could hear the banjos strummin' in most of those towns. And I'm not joking.
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Old 16th Jan 2015, 06:45
  #15856 (permalink)  
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two dads grew up in Orbost.
That's a fairly free use of 'grew up'.
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Old 16th Jan 2015, 10:34
  #15857 (permalink)  
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I think Malcolm Turnbull must be gafawing into his daquiris.
Let's face it, out of all the lib and labor candidates he is the only one with charisma, intelligence, business credibility and doesn't stand there looking like a dumbstruck moron at every interview.
On a previous request
may suggest a better saving for the medical world! How about Australia paying the same cost for pharmaceuticals as other similar countries, might mean doctors reneging their drug company perks. That's probably half a billion to start with!!
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Old 16th Jan 2015, 10:54
  #15858 (permalink)  
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Having seen a few gummints come and go, and holding a rather ropey BA in politics from a good university, and being a lifelong "small t" Tory, I'm disgusted by this gummint. And before anyone accuses me of something horrid: I've NEVER voted Labor or Greens.

The current shower of sh1te have lost people like me. Now I will probably put my rusted-in Lib MHR second last at the next election (just before the pathetic union hack ALP wannabe loser last) for the Reps, but many won't. He'll get back in again. Many of those folks who won't vote Coalition again will have gleefully voted to rid the Treasury benches of the previous Rudd-Gillard-Rudd debacle last time, but they won't next time. They're going to vote Labor again ... LABOR!

Whose fault is this? Theirs? Yep, maybe. The ABC's? Probably not; most of them might listen to 2BL on the way to work in the morning or Classic FM or even 2RN from time to time. But these folks aren't rusted on Phil Adams listeners. The Fairfax press? Probably not, Fairfax barely reports real news now, it's all lifestyle cut'n'paste from other fading Anglosphere mastheads.

Whose fault? Easy: it's the current gummint's fault. So badly have they handled things that people who should be locked in have switched off. Frankly I don't blame the electors, the ignorant, the stupid, the greedy et al. This gummint has been really quick to attempt to punish our weakest whilst letting the wealthiest off Scot free.

One example: we all know how expensive it is becoming to provide the aged pension. It's the biggest single item in gummint expenditure. By the end of this gummint's term, however, this will be overtaken by tax concessions to the wealthiest Australian's superannuation schemes. The PM has utterly refused to rule out addressing that. Happy to gut the ABC, charge uni students more, try and get more out of the chronically sick, reduce or tie state grants (they're not the first in that case, obviously) .... you get the picture.

Add the growing list of disgusted people who SHOULD be Coalition voters to the list of people who NEVER will be Coalition voters ... it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Mr Shorten will be the next PM and he could well have either outright control of the Senate or at best a cynical agreement with the fruitcakes of the Greens. I can barely conceive of a worse outcome for us, but it's a real possibility. And it's all the fault of the current mendacious, nasty, obsessive sh1ts in this government.

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Old 16th Jan 2015, 11:19
  #15859 (permalink)  
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I couldn't agree more but there are plenty here to the right who will shout you down in no uncertain terms. I hope I'm wrong but moderate, rational thought is anathema to many in these parts.
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Old 16th Jan 2015, 11:25
  #15860 (permalink)  
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It's been suggested that Bill Shorten could be the Steven Bradbury of Australian politics.

If you remember, Australian speed skater Bradbury won the gold medal for the 1000m sprint at the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City in 2002.

Bradbury's strategy - simple, yet not elegant - was to start last then fall back. His only hope was that the four better skaters ahead of him would meet disaster, which they did.

At least Bradbury has the decency to admit that his big win was just a fluke in his favour. I don't think there'll be any such humility from Shorten if he manages to win.
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