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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 20th Jul 2014, 09:41
  #13641 (permalink)  
 
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We've got gas. Would they like to buy ours instead ? Can it be tankered or does it have to be directly pipelined?
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 10:59
  #13642 (permalink)  
 
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I'll stand by to be torn apart by 500N but I was under the impression that the SAS has more of a recce role than an outright fighting role.....And would certainly need to be equipped with a lot of heavy stuff considering what the Russians and their mates have available. I certainly wouldn't be happy about flying in the 2nd. Herk going anywhere near that sort of shit fight.
With regard to Rwanda the Australian troops there were ordered not to interfere with any ethnic cleansing etc. and only carried arms to, basically, protect themselves.
My son, whilst serving in the Australian army unit had quite a few friends who were there and who are still having nightmares about what they witnessed ....try dis-embowelling of pregnant women for starters.
Thank you United Nations..... sarcasm intended !


P.s. I think Aussie gas might be a tad expensive after shipping to Europe. Well more expensive than a pipe anyway.
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 11:59
  #13643 (permalink)  
 
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We've got gas. Would they like to buy ours instead ? Can it be tankered or does it have to be directly pipelined?
Yes thats one option, and the Yanks are now big on gas (no jokes please) now, though not sure of their liquefaction facilities. The problem is cost and logistics and the pure amount they would need.

In a crunch it would be doable though, if every one pitched in and wanted to go completely cold turkey off Russian Gas.

I'll stand by to be torn apart by 500N but I was under the impression that the SAS has more of a recce role than an outright fighting role
I am under the impression the SAS has particular squadrons that have particular talents. Though I'm sure they could hold their own against a much larger force, I think they could only secure a small part of the site, and only for a short amount of time.

The situation would require a sizable force with significant support. Again doable. I heard on the Bolt report that one suggestion is to put together a force to go in under a UN resolution. Hence fat chance that will happen.
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 12:00
  #13644 (permalink)  
7x7
 
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I thought most here would be aware that our government - (the old Labor government, I think, but I'll stand by to be corrected on that) - allowed a 100% of our gas output to be sold at the price paid by overseas clients - which is why our domestic gas prices are rising so steeply. (Most nations with such natural resources put in a clause that 'n' % of output be allocated to domestic use at domestic prices.) What puts an extra sting into that is that the companies extracting the gas are all overseas owned.

As for putting our troops - of any description - into the mess that's the eastern part of the Ukraine - a very bad idea with only one guaranteed result - more names on the roll of honour at the AWM. And little else.
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 12:20
  #13645 (permalink)  
RJM
 
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I'll stand by to be torn apart by 500N but I was under the impression that the SAS has more of a recce role than an outright fighting role....
Erm, don't say that to Lance Corporal Roberts-Smith VC of the SAS:

"On 11 June 2010, a troop of the Special Operations Task Group conducted a helicopter assault into Tizak, Kandahar Province, in order to capture or kill a senior Taliban commander.

Immediately upon the helicopter insertion, the troop was engaged by machine gun and rocket propelled grenade fire from multiple, dominating positions. Two soldiers were wounded in action and the troop was pinned down by fire from three machine guns in an elevated fortified position to the south of the village. Under the cover of close air support, suppressive small arms and machine gun fire, Roberts-Smith and his patrol manoeuvred to within 70 metres of the enemy position in order to neutralise the enemy machine gun positions and regain the initiative.

Upon commencement of the assault, the patrol drew very heavy, intense, effective and sustained fire from the enemy position. Roberts-Smith and his patrol members fought towards the enemy position until, at a range of 40 metres, the weight of fire prevented further movement forward. At this point, he identified the opportunity to exploit some cover provided by a small structure.

As he approached the structure, Roberts-Smith identified an insurgent grenadier in the throes of engaging his patrol. Roberts-Smith engaged the insurgent at point-blank range resulting in the death of the insurgent. With the members of his patrol still pinned down by the three enemy machine gun positions, he exposed his own position in order to draw fire away from his patrol, which enabled them to bring fire to bear against the enemy. His actions enabled his Patrol Commander to throw a grenade and silence one of the machine guns. Seizing the advantage, and demonstrating extreme devotion to duty and the most conspicuous gallantry, Roberts-Smith, with a total disregard for his own safety, stormed the enemy position killing the two remaining machine gunners.
His act of valour enabled his patrol to break into the enemy position and to lift the weight of fire from the remainder of the troop who had been pinned down by the machine gun fire. On seizing the fortified gun position, Corporal Roberts-Smith then took the initiative again and continued to assault enemy positions in depth during which he and another patrol member engaged and killed further enemy."

I have a family member in the army who says that the SASR has in its private museum the blood-soaked running shoes which were Roberts-Smith's preferred footwear.

Albert Jacka would have been proud. Ben Roberts-Smith is the size of a horse and it's no wonder the Queen looked intimidated as she peered up at him when he was presented to her.

Apologies for thread drift, but the notion that the SAS is only a recce outfit should be corrected. Apart from conducting direct assaults, the SAS has a strong sniper role.

Last edited by RJM; 20th Jul 2014 at 13:03.
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 12:49
  #13646 (permalink)  
 
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I think it best to say the SAS "used" to be more of a recon unit but with the ability to do small unit ops.
The commandos used to do the bigger raids (and still do).

This has now changed although I haven't read the latest roles of each but it was addressed directly by Mark Donaldson in his book,
I've just forgotten what he said.

I'll try and look it up when I get a chance.

"I am under the impression the SAS has particular squadrons that have particular talents."

They do have specialists, ie Water ops / Boats, CT (now called something else) but the Squadrons also rotate
so each one takes the task of CT for a period. Water Ops / Boats is an insertion method.

Last edited by 500N; 20th Jul 2014 at 13:22.
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 13:04
  #13647 (permalink)  
 
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Re MH17, I think this scenario shows up that having a weak US allows
Russia and others to do what they want.
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 13:35
  #13648 (permalink)  
 
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Damn them, damn them all to Hell.
Damn every last one of them who supported firing the trigger (for whatever grandiose, stupid local reason ), and damn the person who made the decision to fire without looking first to see what colours were on the aircraft tail.

Damn them for killing 200+ innocent people. Damn them for their wilful stupidy and their later lack of balls in admitting their mistake. Damn them for their pathetic attempt at a cover up while the bodies of our innocent fallen lie in the grass.

Damn them for their puerile attempts to blame this on the Ukraines. When push comes to shove I believe in Hell; a Hell that welcomes the weak, the cowardly and the vicious. It's a proper Hell complete with fire and brimstone, and it has a special place reserved for the cowards and thugs who both ordered this bombing and now seek to cover it up. There's a place for you, you cts. There are demons are keeping it warm for you. One day in the future, the Reaper will come for you and show you what's owing... One day he'll come knocking on your door, and when you ask for mercy he'll ask you what mercy was shown to the innocent passengers of MH17. Then he'll show you the staircase that goes one way; down.

May God damn you and your cowardly/stupid actions that took 200+ innocent lives, including Australian children. Damn you to eternal Hell; that's what you'll get. That's your reward, you bastards.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 20th Jul 2014 at 13:46.
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 13:38
  #13649 (permalink)  
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Very well said Worralls.
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 13:45
  #13650 (permalink)  
RJM
 
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Is it the US that's weak or just the Democrats under their leader? I'm not the first to point out such a comparison, but listen to Reagan's 1981 Inaugural Address, especially from 14:00 onwards concerning foreign policy. Could Obama have delivered that?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hpPt7xGx4Xo
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 13:57
  #13651 (permalink)  
 
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The US is weak BECAUSE of the Democrats leader.

He has shown the world that the US is now more bark than bight.

I think it was in the US Politics thread but a good link to how not doing anything over the Red line / Syria
has lead to a whole host of things around the world. Tenuous links yes but the case was made.
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 14:10
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Maybe the US is being carefull not to be reminded by Putin that they committed one of the original airliner shoot downs in 1988.
I think some of you guys need to put your action men and commando comics away and get real about a SAS role in this matter.
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 14:16
  #13653 (permalink)  
RJM
 
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Yes, the case is made. IMHO, Obama is a populist who does not seem to realise that trying to please everyone is not a good basis for foreign policy. Any appearance of appeasement will be exploited by the appeased.

"As for the enemies of freedom, those who are potential adversaries, they will be reminded that peace is the highest aspiration of the American people. We will negotiate for it, sacrifice for it; we will not surrender for it - now or ever.

Our forbearance should never be misunderstood. Our reluctance for conflict should not be misjudged as a failure of will. When action is required to preserve our national security, we will act. We will maintain sufficient strength to prevail if need be, knowing that if we do so we have the best chance of never having to use that strength."

- from Reagan's 1981 Inaugural Address

I for one believe Reagan meant every word of that not very veiled threat - to the advantage and benefit not just if the US but the world.
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 14:18
  #13654 (permalink)  
 
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Ethel

and get real about a SAS role in this matter.
WTF is that supposed to mean ?


Don't forget Russia also has form on shooting down airliners


"commando comics"
Used to love them as a kid, until I progressed to the real thing.
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 15:55
  #13655 (permalink)  
 
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Well said; that man.

Worrals - "Damn you to eternal Hell; that's what you'll get. That's your reward, you bastards."
The ferry is always available to you sir: Nunquam Non Paratus
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 19:54
  #13656 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting headline.

Australian-Lebanese cleric Hussam al-Sabbagh arrested for 'terrorist activity' in Lebanon

Read more: Australian-Lebanese cleric Hussam al-Sabbagh arrested for 'terrorist activity' in Lebanon


Did a quick google
"

Sabbagh dropped out of school while he was in the fifth grade. His religious education is self-acquired. He left Lebanon in 1987 to Australia to escape from the Syrian security services. Sabbagh’s name came to the limelight after Shadi al-Mawlawi was arrested in May 2012."

You have to ask why he was let in and what he was doing between 1987 and 2012.


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Old 20th Jul 2014, 20:40
  #13657 (permalink)  
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
 
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what he was doing between 1987 and 2012
Why would you have to ask? He was working to destroy Australian culture and implement an Islamic one.
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 22:41
  #13658 (permalink)  
 
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You have to ask why he was let in and what he was doing between 1987 and 2012.
There's a two word answer to that question: Paul Keating. Or three words if you'd prefer: Paul ***ing Keating".
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Old 20th Jul 2014, 23:07
  #13659 (permalink)  
7x7
 
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Another gift to Australia from that great political success Bob Carr.

AS rocket fire ricochets across the Middle East and Israel invades Gaza to halt attacks from Hamas, former foreign minister Bob Carr is leading a push within Labor to formally adopt a more “pro-Palestinian” stance in the party’s policy platform.

Mr Carr will move a motion from the floor of the NSW Labor conference next weekend seeking to shift the party’s Middle East policy to express more sympathy with Palestinians in response to what sections of the party argue is the increasingly bellicose stance of Israel.

The former NSW premier, who branded the Australian *Israel lobby as “Likudniks” and accused them of hijacking foreign policy during Julia Gillard’s government, is leading an effort inside the party to recast Labor’s stance in response to a series of motions condemning Israel from local branches…

A raft of motions sent to the conference from local branches and unions, obtained by The Australian, condemn the Israeli government, express strong support for the Palestinian people and urge the fast-tracking of a two-state solution…

The motions come from branches dominated by the Right and Left factions, signalling an underlying shift in the party on Middle East policy re*inforced by demographic change.
As the Muslim population grows in Sydney's western suburbs, so they will exert more and more influence in marginal electorates with politicians chasing votes - and all too soon, will have the numbers to elect politicians from within their own ranks.

Oh, they've done that already, haven't they?
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Old 21st Jul 2014, 02:51
  #13660 (permalink)  
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Regarding the various tasks of the SAS, I speak of the UK but believe the Australian and NZ SASR follow a similar pattern; They have Mountain Troops, Air Troops, (specialty HALO and LOLO, and anything else to do with parachuting), Boat troops, (not to be confused with the SBS), and Sabre Squadrons, which are the modern day equivalent of the WW2 LRDG. Usually a squadron on standby for any hostage situation as well, which the squadrons take in turn. They are highly trained elite soldiers and apart from recce work they excel at snatch duties, (capturing wanted individuals), hit hard and run ops, and a whole host more of serious fighting tasks.


?About the SAS Regiment


Pointless sending them to the Ukraine, better to send the entire 101st and the 82nd Airborne!
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