War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Victoria
Age: 59
Posts: 984
DEPUTY Opposition leader Tanya Plibersek says Kevin Rudd could play a part in easing diplomatic tensions with Indonesia.
But she's not sure whether the former prime minister, who has now left politics, would want to help.
"Any senior Australian like Kevin Rudd, who as former prime minister and former foreign minister, if they've got personal relationships with senior Indonesians, it does no harm to be talking in that personal context to them,'' she told ABC television.
Mr Rudd was prime minister in 2009 when it's alleged Australian intelligence monitored the phone calls of Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, his wife and some of his closest confidants.
In the escalating diplomatic row, Indonesia has stopped joint defence activities and threatened further retaliation.
Ms Plibersek says it all depends now on the letter from Prime Minister Tony Abbott to President Yudhoyono, who is demanding a formal apology and a full explanation of the phone-tapping charges.
She says she doesn't know what's in the letter.
"The proof will obviously be in the pudding. If co-operation is restored to its normal settings, then we will know that the letter has been successful,'' she said.
Mr Abbott hadn't helped the situation with his addresses to parliament, Ms Plibersek said.
Neither had the coalition's election policies of turning back asylum seeker boats and its failure to consult Indonesia.
"I am sure that we will get the relationship back on track but we need to do it quickly,'' she said.
But she's not sure whether the former prime minister, who has now left politics, would want to help.
"Any senior Australian like Kevin Rudd, who as former prime minister and former foreign minister, if they've got personal relationships with senior Indonesians, it does no harm to be talking in that personal context to them,'' she told ABC television.
Mr Rudd was prime minister in 2009 when it's alleged Australian intelligence monitored the phone calls of Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, his wife and some of his closest confidants.
In the escalating diplomatic row, Indonesia has stopped joint defence activities and threatened further retaliation.
Ms Plibersek says it all depends now on the letter from Prime Minister Tony Abbott to President Yudhoyono, who is demanding a formal apology and a full explanation of the phone-tapping charges.
She says she doesn't know what's in the letter.
"The proof will obviously be in the pudding. If co-operation is restored to its normal settings, then we will know that the letter has been successful,'' she said.
Mr Abbott hadn't helped the situation with his addresses to parliament, Ms Plibersek said.
Neither had the coalition's election policies of turning back asylum seeker boats and its failure to consult Indonesia.
"I am sure that we will get the relationship back on track but we need to do it quickly,'' she said.
Bit like trying to extinguish a fire by throwing petrol on it, isn’t it?Dunno what those Labor wallys are smoking, but I wouldn’t mind trying some.
When his right honourable mr Tony Abbott takes nearly a week to respond equally speaks volumes.
Maybe it is time for this thread to wind up!
Of course you and all your other personalities could just nick off.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fliegensville, Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 8
"some unable to rise above puerile abuse of our elected representatives.
It is also not unreasonable to expect a level of educated respect acknowledging ones correct title or name is just a matter of common courtesy let alone good upbringing."
You were strangely quiet on this point for the past 6 years??
It is also not unreasonable to expect a level of educated respect acknowledging ones correct title or name is just a matter of common courtesy let alone good upbringing."
You were strangely quiet on this point for the past 6 years??
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,076
Plibersek simply exposes her ignorance of the Asian mind to even suggest that relations with Indonesia will or could "quickly return to normal settings".
Indonesia will milk this event for all it is worth.
In the Asian mind Australia was at position A, we were caught out and fell to position C, it is now impossible to go straight back to position A. Australia now has to serve a term at Position B whilst Indonesia, for public consumption, ridicule Tony Abbott in their press, burn a few flags etc.etc.
All that actually matters is what is privately discussed between the Australian Prime Minister and the Indonesian President and neither Snowden or Assange will now be able to tell us that.
Indonesia will milk this event for all it is worth.
In the Asian mind Australia was at position A, we were caught out and fell to position C, it is now impossible to go straight back to position A. Australia now has to serve a term at Position B whilst Indonesia, for public consumption, ridicule Tony Abbott in their press, burn a few flags etc.etc.
All that actually matters is what is privately discussed between the Australian Prime Minister and the Indonesian President and neither Snowden or Assange will now be able to tell us that.
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,107
I won't be closing the thread. Politicians of all colours have been called all sorts on here by various contributers.
Personal abuse and tedious strawman arguments are where I draw the line.
I won't close this thread after all this time of keeping it open but people are welcome to start other threads if they don't like this one and see how they go.
Personal abuse and tedious strawman arguments are where I draw the line.
I won't close this thread after all this time of keeping it open but people are welcome to start other threads if they don't like this one and see how they go.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sunny side up
Posts: 1,205
Ditto; thank you CFI. 
Because you don't like it? 
Given that JB is currently At Home to a North Korean apologist (for want of a better word and good luck to him, it's a free internet
) I don't see that any of the political views posted in this very long-running thread have been all that controversial.
Maybe it is time for this thread to wind up!
Given that JB is currently At Home to a North Korean apologist (for want of a better word and good luck to him, it's a free internet
) I don't see that any of the political views posted in this very long-running thread have been all that controversial.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fliegensville, Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 8
TA should just man up, tell em to **** off, he didn't order the spying, the last bunch of incompetents did......and in fact demand a thank you for the C130s the very same previous gummint provided!!!
Can't see "the 'honourable' member for Warringah" (Is that better for you DK???) Doing anything of the sort though....
Awaiting any number of LNP apologists to arrive any minute......
Can't see "the 'honourable' member for Warringah" (Is that better for you DK???) Doing anything of the sort though....
Awaiting any number of LNP apologists to arrive any minute......
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 56
Posts: 4,241
I do think he needs to point out publicly that this happened on KRudd's watch
and not just take it lying down. The problem is, he also gets briefed so he would
have known about it.
But yes, I don't think we should bend over backwards to appease them,
some dialogue but not much more. I bet Rudd or whoever gave them the
C-130's without much in return and certainly no long term commitments
to AS / Boats which is what should have happened.
Maybe now the Indos aren't playing ball with boats we shouldn't either
and just tow them back into their waters and phone the Indos and tell
them to come and collect them since they are in the Indo SAR area.
and not just take it lying down. The problem is, he also gets briefed so he would
have known about it.
But yes, I don't think we should bend over backwards to appease them,
some dialogue but not much more. I bet Rudd or whoever gave them the
C-130's without much in return and certainly no long term commitments
to AS / Boats which is what should have happened.
Maybe now the Indos aren't playing ball with boats we shouldn't either
and just tow them back into their waters and phone the Indos and tell
them to come and collect them since they are in the Indo SAR area.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Southern Sun
Posts: 417
Not correct Fliegs; if you review my posts it is evident I have always indicated people should be given the correct, normal and due courtesy of their office and title.
It is not necessary to respect the holder of the office should it be considered with reasonable evidence they prove to be incompetence, dishonest, untrustworthy and untruthful.
Nor do I have a problem with people expressing their point of view provided it is done in a somewhat courteous manner even should if it is done with a degree of agro.
Common courtesy, respect and good manners achieve far more than puerile, uneducated rants.
From your posts, whilst you may have a far differing view to mine and express it vociferously from time to time I think on this, we agree.
PS>>CFI agree and bow to your patience
It is not necessary to respect the holder of the office should it be considered with reasonable evidence they prove to be incompetence, dishonest, untrustworthy and untruthful.
Nor do I have a problem with people expressing their point of view provided it is done in a somewhat courteous manner even should if it is done with a degree of agro.
Common courtesy, respect and good manners achieve far more than puerile, uneducated rants.
From your posts, whilst you may have a far differing view to mine and express it vociferously from time to time I think on this, we agree.
PS>>CFI agree and bow to your patience
