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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 21st Aug 2013, 03:46
  #7641 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
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As an outsider, and a conservative, but with a familial interest in the well-being of Australia, I have to ask, was the Howard era better or worse than what Australia voted to replace it with?
My response to you reflects the fact I was a business owner from 1982 to 2002, and the order book was a good indication of the state of the economy. The Howard years were by far the best in my entire life and especially during my business tenure, and I've been a voter since 1966, so here's my opinion of PM's since that time.

I wasn't very interested in politics in Menzies days, Gorton was never really up to the job, McMahon was a tosser, I was elated when Whitlam won, and even more elated when he got thrown out even though I never liked Fraser.

Now please don't think less of me, but I actually voted for Bob Hawke. An aside - my late father knew Hawke reasonably well when he was the Pulp and Paperworkers Union (now CFMEU) delegate to the ACTU, and he despised the man.

Keating never earned respect for his arrogance, contempt and the recession we had to have. I was directly affected by the Keating years and the 22% overdraft rates my business had to pay - we got it down to 17% when we mortgaged our house and applied the funds for the business.

My vivid and indelible memory of the Keating years was the effect unemployment had on young men who worked casually in my business. Having had their apprenticeships terminated by their previous employers (lack of work) these two lads suicided. One shot himself on his mother's birthday in 1991 (his family were/are friends), and the other used a hosepipe up the exhaust at Windy Point in the Adelaide Hills (his father worked for me). Both lads were depressed because they couldn't get a permanent job, and I felt partly to blame because I wasn't in a position to offer them one.

From 1996 when Howard was elected until 2002 when I sold my business, my workforce grew from 17 employees to 32. The effect of the GFC, Labor policies both Federal and State and red tape has caused a huge reduction in the number of employees (presently eight).

The Rudd/Gillard years have damaged Australia, not just for the past and present, but the legacy of their wasted opportunities and incompetence will continue for many years to come, no matter who prevails on 7 September.
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 04:11
  #7642 (permalink)  
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Ovation - that ought to be permanently burned into the brains of the "true believers" who live in their pardee induced delusional state.
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 04:57
  #7643 (permalink)  
 
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Ovation

That is a damn good summary and small business employees is a good way
or showing the good times and bad.

Keating - agree. I bought a house and remember interest rates
were at 17.5% the day I signed.

Hawke - lucky when he was in power things were pretty good.

Rudd / Gillard - I look at that time and look at what do nothing Bracks
didn't do for Victoria and see it as the same, lost opportunities.

All these lefty do gooders who want everything their way screw it for
businesses.
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 05:10
  #7644 (permalink)  
 
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"L" is for Labour.

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Old 21st Aug 2013, 05:20
  #7645 (permalink)  
 
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This was posted today by the LNP. It demonstrates how shallow and evasive Rudd really is. Rudd's Excuses
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 05:27
  #7646 (permalink)  
 
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 07:38
  #7647 (permalink)  
 
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Keating was the bastard who told a generation of school leavers, my son included, that there was no need for tradesmen any longer so they could just get themselves off o the nearest scrapheap. That was the time in my life when I resigned from being a union member and stopped voting Labour.
Roll on Election day !
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 07:46
  #7648 (permalink)  
 
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I remember sitting in a pub in South Melbourne which was well frequented
by Tradies at lunchtime and discussing it with who I had lunch with.

The gist of it was that Tradies would always be required and they would
do better than they were then. It wasn't that long after that rates took off
and Tradies became much better off.


I also lamented around the same time that all the males leaving teaching
or schools in general and not becoming teachers would cause problems
later on and now we have very few male role models in schools.
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 08:58
  #7649 (permalink)  
 
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Time for a laugh...

JOE HOCKEY: I’d just say to you is there any waste in the ABC at all, Tony?

TONY JONES: Say that again?

JOE HOCKEY: Is there any waste?

TONY JONES: If you are looking for waste, don’t look here.

JOE HOCKEY: We will have to look at Leigh Sales’ remuneration then, not yours.

TONY JONES: Certainly not. Certainly not. We’ll just get a quick response from Chris Bowen on this before we move on...





Lacking imagination: Privatising the ABC | Catallaxy Files
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 09:24
  #7650 (permalink)  
 
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IMO Howard's government were good and rightly popular for their first three terms. Then they went gaga on IR reform and got voted back to the stone-age. I realize that gaga is a subjective term and some of you will vehemently disagree, but undoubtedly Howard's government got wiped out and IMO Work Choices was the main reason.

Also, I think many voters saw Howard getting older and more dictatorial and it scared them. They'd also been in for yonks and any government that's in power for a length of time builds up both a sense of complacency and a grudge list with the electorate . The day before the election a friend of mine caught a cab in Sydney and the cabbie correctly predicted both the wipeout and Howard losing his seat. His explanation? 'Everyone hates 'em for somthing.'
Deju vu perhaps?

Post defeat, various Coalition MPs (including Joe Hockey IIRC) later appeared on a surpsingly unbiassed 7.30 Report autopsy, and each one of them conceded that they'd underestimated the public mood against IR, Howard himself and a few other issues. IIRC at least one of them said that they would have rolled Howard prior to the election if they'd realised, but they didn't.
Keating was the bastard who told a generation of school leavers, my son included, that there was no need for tradesmen any longer so they could just get themselves off o the nearest scrapheap.
I remember that and the proliferation of dodgo degrees for everyone who wanted to go to uni but wasn't really cut out for it. There was a similar fuss about the Mining Boom 10 years ago when everyone was told to go out and get excavator tickets / Engineering degrees, because Australia would soon be doing nothing except mining. No doubt there's a government fad at the moment for school leavers, and hopefully many of them will ignore it. IME education recommendations from the government are like Melbourne Cup tips from sports commentators; i.e. best treated with scepticism.

However, re Rudd / Gillard/ Rudd; disappointing, IMO. By and large both inner sancta are a bunch of cloistered, self-serving graspers with far too little real-world experience and far too much time spent in the student union. The more I see Rudd in action the less I think he was outstanding in 07; with the value of hindsight I think people were voting against Howard and the Coalition rather than for Rudd and the ALP.

Thanks for the post Ovation, it was interesting. I had no issue with Howard's government when they stuck with small business IR stuff. As stated, I voted for them for three terms. However, for those of us who work in borg collectives the
Work Choices stuff was going to screw us over and I wasn't going to tick a box in favour of that. As it turned out, nor were a few hundred thousand other people.

My particular collective at the time had a number of Kiwi borg, and they were full of horror stories about what had happened in NZ when they went down that path. If I'd had a dollar for every Kiwi who said 'they did that in Inzid, and that's why I'm here' I could probably shout you all drinks.

Nor will you tick a box for a party (i.e. the ALP) that is generally hopeless when it comes to assisting small businesses, and I don't blame you for that. However, I hold the Australian Business Council et al in the same regard you have for unions. I don't like their influence on policy and I'm deadly sick of their recommendations for affordable safety and Asian pay rates, even though their members are receiving 100% Aussie sized bonuses.

Most people vote the same way in almost every single election (particularly federally). For those of us who vary I think it generally comes down to either the local candidate or 'what's in it for me.' Or who has the hat (I've actually heard this as a reason for voting KAP, and unfortunately words failed me ).

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 21st Aug 2013 at 09:28.
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 10:52
  #7651 (permalink)  
 
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"Most people vote the same way" etc.
The problem I have is that the electorate that I live, and vote in, has been Labour since the 1960's.So since 1981 my vote is not worth the proverbial Chinese cracker.
Gillard, my late and not lamented Federal M.P. has p****d off to her new pad ,which by the way is the only beach front property not threatened by rising seawater, and has been replaced with another one from Emily's list who has served her time in the movement. This new Gillard clone claims to have saved the town from having a toxic dump foisted on it's citizens some years back. Silly me I always thought that it was us the citizens who prevented that imposition by, after going through all the legal avenues and being ignored, finally threatened civil disobedience at an open air meeting held on a very cold Winter's night which attracted a crowd estimated to have been upwards of 10,000.
..... and these scumbags use legal threats to make me register at the polling booth on election day ! Democracy it 'ain't.
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 12:18
  #7652 (permalink)  
 
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bosnich

PM sent
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 22:02
  #7653 (permalink)  
 
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Heh, Bolt thinks it a bit to rehearsed. Looked good to me..

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Old 21st Aug 2013, 22:12
  #7654 (permalink)  
 
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I just saw that on TV.

It was a very well delivered line, straight after Rudd said "just one more point".

Abbott got some laughs and claps out of it so I think it went down well.

I certainly don't think he lost his cool or was going to so biased
media reporting on that one.


But that is my HO only !!!

Last edited by 500N; 21st Aug 2013 at 22:12.
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 22:19
  #7655 (permalink)  
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The ALPBC will be full of faux outrage over Abbott's remark today. The audience - certainly those chosen to ask questions - was so obviously stacked by GetUp! there's no debating it.

As for the worm, see below:

It’s Rudd vs. Abbott round two, as they go head-to-head for the second leaders’ debate tonight. We could probably all agree the first debate was a little lacklustre (to say the least), so we’ve thought up a way to make the second debate a bit more interesting – and we want you to be a part of it.

Here’s the plan. The Seven Network “worm” will be providing live feedback from the audience during the debate. For those playing at home, you can also rate each leader’s performance based on the issues that matter most to you. The “worm” will be seen by everyone tuned in to the debate, including journalists and politicians. This is a great opportunity for you to have a say on the issues you care about this election.

With thousands of GetUp members taking part, we can make the worm wiggle and squirm for a better and fairer Australia. Download the 7News app for your device here and be sure to tune in to Channel Seven tonight at 6.30pm.

Why not get your friends and family to join in the action too?

http://www.getup.org.au/rudd-vs-abbott

See you for round two,
the GetUp team

PS. Use this link to let your friends know about tonight’s debate via Facebook, and how they can get involved: http://bit.ly/debateshare
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 22:27
  #7656 (permalink)  
 
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"faux outrage over Abbott's remark today"

That sums it up rather well.
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 22:28
  #7657 (permalink)  
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I find myself agreeing 100% with Makka from the Catallaxy Files:

Makka
#967757, posted on August 21, 2013 at 9:53 pm

Rudd is increasingly looking unhinged and an outright whiner. His barely concealed condescension is draining his support daily. He knows it, but can’t help himself. His condescending pompous style is deeply entrenched.

I find myself ignoring what Rudd says because his patently arrogant smarmy demeanor grabs my attention in a repulsive way , kind of like looking at a traffic accident. The more people see of Rudd the better for the LNP. I’m aghast so many adults don’t see this.
And no, I'm not Makka. But my wife thinks he might have a bug planted in my family room.
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 22:43
  #7658 (permalink)  
 
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 22:55
  #7659 (permalink)  
 
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Most would agree that a mother who chooses to stay at home to raise a family, do an incredibly important job. Such women, (it is usually - but I accept, not always - the woman who lays this vital role), and their families will get nothing from Tony Abbott’s planned parental leave scheme. If the government insists in playing a role in assisting people in raising a family, surely a better system would be to allow the primary breadwinner to ‘employ’ his or her spouse for up to 50% of his or her pre-tax wage? Everyone wins.

The family unit gets two bites at the $18,000 tax-tree threshold.

The family pays less tax on their initial earnings above $18,000.

If the family splits, the father can still elect to ‘employ’ the mother to raise his children, so in most cases, she will not need to ask for government assistance.

With an ‘income’ that is not a government handout, some women (or even men if not the primary breadwinner), might (gasp!) elect to stay at home longer to raise their children THEMSELVES rather than employ someone else to do it.

If the woman chooses to go back to work, she can do so, but her earnings would be added to those she ‘earns’ from her ‘primary employer’, her husband.

Obviously, I haven’t done the costings on this suggestion, but surely a scheme such as this would drag many thousands of families into self-sufficiency and out of government benefits, thus saving the government (no, make that 'the taxpayer') many millions of dollars. More importantly, the next generation might grow up knowing what it’s like to have a mother around the house as they grow up and we might end up with not so many delinquents on the streets.

And we wouldn’t have this ridiculous, so easily rortable - (because you can be sure it will be) - crazy scheme that Tony Abbott seems to have hung his reputation on.
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 23:17
  #7660 (permalink)  
 
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...And we wouldn’t have this ridiculous, so easily rortable - (because you can be sure it will be) - crazy scheme that Tony Abbott seems to have hung his reputation on....
It obviously needs some tweaking. The basic idea has been around for a while now. I seems to recall Noel Whittaker ruminating along simular lines about twenty years ago.
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