Cruise Ship Disaster
Psychophysiological entity
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tweet Rob_Benham Famous author. Well, slightly famous.
Age: 81
Posts: 4,919
Do they have no obligation to return private objects such as jewelry? So many items like that are of a sentimental value that far exceeds the hard cash.
( another aside. I do recall hearing, though from where I don't remember, that items sold in UK auction become the legal property of the successful bidder, even if they have been stolen.)
( another aside. I do recall hearing, though from where I don't remember, that items sold in UK auction become the legal property of the successful bidder, even if they have been stolen.)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 56
Posts: 4,241
"bidders for the salvage have to estimate what they can get for the ship's bell, the jewelry the Russians and others may have left on board, and so forth."
So does that mean that if you leave personal items on the ship,
it belongs to the Salvors ?
If an aircraft crashes, personal effects are returned to the owner or family (if deceased) but this is not the case with ships ????
So does that mean that if you leave personal items on the ship,
it belongs to the Salvors ?
If an aircraft crashes, personal effects are returned to the owner or family (if deceased) but this is not the case with ships ????
Psychophysiological entity
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tweet Rob_Benham Famous author. Well, slightly famous.
Age: 81
Posts: 4,919
Overlapped me with the same question. It's obvious there's a moral burden to reunite the owners with their property, but morals, and the modern world . . .
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dorking
Posts: 479
I should have posted earlier. My frustration was brewing during the rescue phase - when those operations were halted due to the weather. They should not have been.
As somebody who has studied Naval Architecture and had a few non-Archimedes incidents, getting the wreck tethered would have been my highest priority.
Salvage-wise. Impossible to tell without a survey as is. I presume that there are now some holes on the Starboard side. Sealing the Port side will, therefore not be enough. There are also all of the open external doorways on the submerged decks to plug. And then the holes made in the rescue attempts.
Heavy (and very slow) lift crane barges, pumping and balloons. Maybe.
Unlikely. Get it stabilised and recover all the dry stuff. Cut it up for scrap down to the existing waterline and dump the rest - probably.
As somebody who has studied Naval Architecture and had a few non-Archimedes incidents, getting the wreck tethered would have been my highest priority.
Salvage-wise. Impossible to tell without a survey as is. I presume that there are now some holes on the Starboard side. Sealing the Port side will, therefore not be enough. There are also all of the open external doorways on the submerged decks to plug. And then the holes made in the rescue attempts.
Heavy (and very slow) lift crane barges, pumping and balloons. Maybe.
Unlikely. Get it stabilised and recover all the dry stuff. Cut it up for scrap down to the existing waterline and dump the rest - probably.
Psychophysiological entity
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tweet Rob_Benham Famous author. Well, slightly famous.
Age: 81
Posts: 4,919
The actual force along the lines to the shore wouldn't be that vast, as long as she didn't slip off the edge. Once over the ledge there would be colossal tonnage to restrain. Impossible I would think.
One is mindful of Gulliver and the hundreds of small strands that bound him. I have no knowledge of where one would fasten them to the vessel, but on land individual anchor points could be fabricated on site from steel rod.
This may seem an insurmountable task, but the thought of it slipping into deeper water I would think would be a strong motivator. The numbers run into many, many millions, so even a million spent on rope and steel is . . . no, I won't say it.
The only good factor is she must not, in particular, be allowed to roll, so the tethers would have to be on the top. Certainly dozens of lines to the port anchor chain would be a start - assuming it wouldn't pull out further.
Easy viewed from here, but the thought of that oil being lost is horrifying. I spent my honeymoon not far from there and the beaches were ruined by blobs of what looked like soft tar. We knew little of spilled oil in those days, but I bet that's what it was.
One is mindful of Gulliver and the hundreds of small strands that bound him. I have no knowledge of where one would fasten them to the vessel, but on land individual anchor points could be fabricated on site from steel rod.
This may seem an insurmountable task, but the thought of it slipping into deeper water I would think would be a strong motivator. The numbers run into many, many millions, so even a million spent on rope and steel is . . . no, I won't say it.
The only good factor is she must not, in particular, be allowed to roll, so the tethers would have to be on the top. Certainly dozens of lines to the port anchor chain would be a start - assuming it wouldn't pull out further.
Easy viewed from here, but the thought of that oil being lost is horrifying. I spent my honeymoon not far from there and the beaches were ruined by blobs of what looked like soft tar. We knew little of spilled oil in those days, but I bet that's what it was.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Whereever I lay my hat
Posts: 49
More info from Smit
Salvage-related information by Smit can be found here:
SMIT'S WORLD
I'd think (at least) twice before questioning this company's mode of operations. They are not exactly amateurs in this line of business.
SMIT'S WORLD
I'd think (at least) twice before questioning this company's mode of operations. They are not exactly amateurs in this line of business.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Newcastle/UK
Posts: 1,477
I would imagine the company would be more than happy if she slipped and sank in deep water,probably work out much cheaper for them,cutting her up in situ will cost a fortune,that is not some beach in India.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Newcastle/UK
Posts: 1,477
That's what I meant Mr G, it is Italy,not some third world ship scrapping beach where it could be gas axed into managable chunks and and dragged up onto a beach without anybody looking over their shoulder,there will probably be two hundred EU H&S and anti pollution functionaries with clipboards watching their every move.
They should turn 500 Cornishmen loose on her,in a week there would not be a pot pan carpet stick of furniture knife fork or spoon left aboard her,just be a bare hull.
They should turn 500 Cornishmen loose on her,in a week there would not be a pot pan carpet stick of furniture knife fork or spoon left aboard her,just be a bare hull.
Guest
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere between E17487 and F75775
Age: 77
Posts: 723
They should turn 500 Cornishmen loose on her,in a week there would not be a pot pan carpet stick of furniture knife fork or spoon left aboard her,just be a bare hull.
Watch what you say Mr D., people have been banned from PPRuNe for making such racial slurs insinuating members of a nationality or grouping are all thieves......
Watch what you say Mr D., people have been banned from PPRuNe for making such racial slurs insinuating members of a nationality or grouping are all thieves......
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Sao Paulo
Age: 76
Posts: 792
Thanks for that Drapes, really brightened my day!
And thank you KiloMikePapa for the link to the Smit site. How times have changed; that sort of transparency would have been unlikely twenty years ago. And it's interesting that it refers only to the oil removal, not the salvage per se.
As for what happens to personal effects, I confess ignorance. Things like passports and documents would surely be returned to owners, but jewelry? If the insurance has been paid out on a particular item, it then belongs to the insurer doesn't it?
And thank you KiloMikePapa for the link to the Smit site. How times have changed; that sort of transparency would have been unlikely twenty years ago. And it's interesting that it refers only to the oil removal, not the salvage per se.
As for what happens to personal effects, I confess ignorance. Things like passports and documents would surely be returned to owners, but jewelry? If the insurance has been paid out on a particular item, it then belongs to the insurer doesn't it?
Guest
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere between E17487 and F75775
Age: 77
Posts: 723
I see Channel 4 has a documentary
Having sat and groaned through a few other documentaries - did you see the one on Pan-Am last week - stuffed with ripe howlers - I shan't be watching this one. If you've read the PPRuNe thread there's nothing more that can be added (I bet).
Having sat and groaned through a few other documentaries - did you see the one on Pan-Am last week - stuffed with ripe howlers - I shan't be watching this one. If you've read the PPRuNe thread there's nothing more that can be added (I bet).
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edinburgh and 3C
Age: 68
Posts: 195
Beeb reporting that the search for bodies has been abandoned.
BBC News - Costa Concordia wreck: Search of cruise ship abandoned
BBC News - Costa Concordia wreck: Search of cruise ship abandoned
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 142
I believe Smit's contract is for the salvage of the bunkers only, not the vessel.
They may have not yet agreed a contract for the salvage of the ship.
On the question of jewellery; I hope for the pax this is covered by their home/contents insurance. I suspect the liability of the cruise line would be limited by the Warsaw/Athens convention (or similar, can't be bothered to check), which would be incorporated into the conditions of carriage.
If the ship is to be salved, the traditional rule would be that cargo owners would be liable to contribute to the salvage fund in proportion to the value of the cargo saved; in theory, that principle could apply to jewellery/valuables recovered - however, I suspect the scale of any salvage operation would not permit valuables to be reunited with their owners - we are talking about cutting up and hauling large chunks of metal out of the sea, not strolling through cabins noting what was found where.
I suspect the answer is, if you have fancy jewellery you're fond of, consider not taking it on your hols. Or keep it in your knickers
They may have not yet agreed a contract for the salvage of the ship.
On the question of jewellery; I hope for the pax this is covered by their home/contents insurance. I suspect the liability of the cruise line would be limited by the Warsaw/Athens convention (or similar, can't be bothered to check), which would be incorporated into the conditions of carriage.
If the ship is to be salved, the traditional rule would be that cargo owners would be liable to contribute to the salvage fund in proportion to the value of the cargo saved; in theory, that principle could apply to jewellery/valuables recovered - however, I suspect the scale of any salvage operation would not permit valuables to be reunited with their owners - we are talking about cutting up and hauling large chunks of metal out of the sea, not strolling through cabins noting what was found where.
I suspect the answer is, if you have fancy jewellery you're fond of, consider not taking it on your hols. Or keep it in your knickers
