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Formula 1

Old 30th Jun 2019, 15:47
  #7441 (permalink)  
 
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What I saw on the Sky broadcast was Verstappen slightly straightening his wheels which resulted in the contact, definatley a deliberate move IMHO.
Thats how I saw it as well.
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 15:59
  #7442 (permalink)  
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No decision expected before 18:00/18:30 BST.
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 18:01
  #7443 (permalink)  
 
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Verstappen keeps the win.

I for one I'm happy with this outcome. Yes it was a bit rough but Leclerc didn't make it too easy either. And although I'm not a huge fan I muss say that Max did really shine today.
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 18:09
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Although Ferrari were making noises about 'the current regulations', they (Vettel and Binotto) seemed to think that it was a fair overtake - maybe not clean, but not worthy of a penalty.
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 18:36
  #7445 (permalink)  
 
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`Tis I Leclerc` could have covered Max`s approach on the inside easily,as he knew he was close....Max could have then `squared ` the corner off no problem....
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 19:13
  #7446 (permalink)  
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Reports emerged ahead of the Austrian Grand Prix that Verstappen has a clause in his contract which could see him move for the 2020 F1 season.
Marca claimed the Red Bull driver has a performance clause in his contract, which could allow him to speak to other teams about a possible move.
It is stated that if Max Verstappen hasn’t won a race by the Hungarian Grand Prix, on August 4, then the clause could be activated.
Well he just blew that . . .

Do you think Vettel will retire and Max will move to Ferrari?

That could make things interesting.
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 19:50
  #7447 (permalink)  
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Do you think Vettel will retire and Max will move to Ferrari? That could make things interesting.
Rumour I have heard is that he will move to Mercedes. Supposition is that he will replace Bottas. But I am intrigued at the possibility of Hamilton moving to Ferrari to replace Vettel alongside Leclerc for his last couple of seasons with Verstappen as the new lead driver at Mercedes.

I can understand Hamilton being tempted.
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 20:00
  #7448 (permalink)  
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The sequence of events leading up to Verstappen's overtake of Leclerc is a pleasure to watch - cutting and thrusting by both drivers before the inevitable.
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 20:15
  #7449 (permalink)  
 
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If Vettel got a 5-sec penalty in Canada...
If Ricciardo got a 5-sec penalty in France...
(If Magnussen got a drive-through penalty in Austria...)

Then Max should get a penalty too...

But he didn't. It's inconsistent application of rules and penalties.

I think the Verstappen Leclerc move was good racing, not worthy of a penalty. But IF the stewards are handing out penalties like they are, they HAVE to be consistent. And they are not.


Finally an interesting race all the way through though
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 20:30
  #7450 (permalink)  
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Silverstone owners concerned over F1's London plan.
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 21:09
  #7451 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LlamaFarmer View Post
If Vettel got a 5-sec penalty in Canada...
If Ricciardo got a 5-sec penalty in France...
(If Magnussen got a drive-through penalty in Austria...)

Then Max should get a penalty too...

But he didn't. It's inconsistent application of rules and penalties.
Not so. Vettel got a penalty for an unsafe rejoin. Ricciardo got penalties for leaving the track and gaining advantage and for an unsafe rejoin (the leaving-the-track being a slam-dunk bit of cheating, and the unsafe rejoin being arguable but not as clear cut).

Verstappen did not leave the track and did not rejoin unsafely, so there can be no comparison and no question of inconsistency.

K-Mag's offence was also a slam-dunk. The drivers know they have to stop on their marks on the grid, and he didn't.

PDR
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 08:51
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You insisted Vettel's penalty was 100% correct... it doesn't matter whether he left the track and rejoined really, because you say he forced a driver off the track. But when Max does the same, it's all ok, despite letter of the sporting regs forbidding the crowding a driver off the track?


I think Max should NOT have got a penalty but the regs have been enforced over the last few races in a way that demands that he does. Otherwise it is not consistent.

3 different people this morning have said that had it been reversed, or any driver other than Max and Lewis, there would have been a penalty.

It's clear he opened the steering wheel to force him off.
His car was NOT where it had been the previous lap as he had left the room for Leclerc (yet in Canada, Vettel's car WAS where it had been on all previous laps).



Really I don't want any of these penalties, but there has to be consistency. And now there is not.
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 09:00
  #7453 (permalink)  
 
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"b) However, maneouvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track are strictly prohibited"

"d) Causing a collision will be reported to the stewards and may entail the imposition of penalties up to and including the exclusion of the driver"

"e) It is not permitted to drive any car erratically or in a manner deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at any time"



There is plenty there that Max was guilty of IF Vettel and Ricciardo were guilty.

Any I agree Magnussens penalty was a slam-dunk, it was clear he had committed the offence, but was the punishment proportional to the crime? Considering the rest of the penalties or lack of? I strongly disagree
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 10:30
  #7454 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LlamaFarmer View Post
You insisted Vettel's penalty was 100% correct... it doesn't matter whether he left the track and rejoined really, because you say he forced a driver off the track. But when Max does the same, it's all ok, despite letter of the sporting regs forbidding the crowding a driver off the track?
Vettel left the track and then tried to recover to the racing line. Max was in front at the corner, was on the racing line and was therefore entitled to keep it. That's what makes it different, and what makes it a "racing incident". Max had the racing line and was in front, so as long as he didn't move off the racing line to defend it was up to Charles to concede the corner having lost it. Intriguingly if Charles had actually gotten ahead after leaving the track he would have been penalised for leaving the track and gaining advantage.

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Old 1st Jul 2019, 10:37
  #7455 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LlamaFarmer View Post
3 different people this morning have said that had it been reversed, or any driver other than Max and Lewis, there would have been a penalty.
3 different people have said Trump is intelligent and attractive to women. YThis is pure speculation - only the stewards actually know. At least one person this morning has said that Vettel would have stripped naked and run around the track if he'd won*. The fact that someone voices a speculation doesn't make it true.

It's clear he opened the steering wheel to force him off.
It's clear he opened the steering wheel to steer to the racing line and put down the power.

His car was NOT where it had been the previous lap as he had left the room for Leclerc
Indeed, because on the previous lap he had NOT got in front at the beginning of the corner, so he was NOT entitled to the racing line and was required to leave a gap.

PDR

* It was me, just now and no one was listening, but it still counts
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 10:43
  #7456 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LlamaFarmer View Post
"b) However, maneouvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track are strictly prohibited"
When not leading on the racing line. Arguably Charles tried to hinder Max by crowding him off the racing line.

"d) Causing a collision will be reported to the stewards and may entail the imposition of penalties up to and including the exclusion of the driver"
Arguably Charles caused the collision by placing himself on the racing line already occupied by the car in front.

"e) It is not permitted to drive any car erratically or in a manner deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at any time"
Like refusing to concede a corner you've already lost...

There is plenty there that Max was guilty of IF Vettel and Ricciardo were guilty.
Vettels offences relate to actions after he lef6t the track, at which point he has no rights and has a specific duty to focus on rejoining the track safely. Ricciardo just plain cheated - he left the track solely to drive around another car off the track. So these are just not applicable.

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Old 1st Jul 2019, 11:17
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One thing is clear. (Well, many things are clear.) As someone once said to me, knock down an antiques dealer today and he will get you back tomorrow. Elephants have long memories.

Clear?

Charles Leclerc will not forget yesterday, even if Max does. The atmosphere in the changing room said everything.
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 11:37
  #7458 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
The atmosphere in the changing room said everything.
They shared a flight after the race (together with Max's girlfriend and David Couthard and it would seem they have worked it out and are pals again.

Interestingly Sebastian Vettel has publicly stated that Max's overtake was fair and legal is his opinion.

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Old 1st Jul 2019, 11:47
  #7459 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Sebastian Vettel has publicly stated that Max's overtake was fair and legal in his opinion.
Agreed, but is SV now seeing CL as a threat?
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 11:59
  #7460 (permalink)  
 
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Ferrari also accepted the result without so much as a murmur.
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