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Formula 1

Old 15th Apr 2018, 17:09
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I wonder if Max watches his performance on video to see where he makes questionable actions that cause him adversity?
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 21:28
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I have watched the relevant 'incidents' several times, and it has been suggested that Vettel could have avoided his collision with Max - yes, I know that Max was deemed to be at fault and most will agree with that, but Vettel lost out big time - with damage to his floor, whereas if V had recognised that M had much better tyres and would inevitably overtake eventually he (V) could have retained his position and gone on to finish higher than he did.
The example quoted was how Bottas gave way to Ricciardo rather than defend against him.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 07:46
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Here is a series of ifs, if. if. if. if, but strictly hedged. Please do not think less of me for suggesting them, but for one lunatic moment this thought did cross my mind. What if Ferrari have offered Lewis a seat for next year, under certain secret conditions? Everyone knows he would love a chance to drive a red car, and surely now even more so.
The conditions might be that in order to seal a fat salary at the mark of the prancing horse and a chance for the world title there, he should allow Vettel to be the F****** world champion this year.
"In your dreams!" I hear you say. "How could you insult the good names of F and LH?" And you would probably be absolutely right. In return I would simply ask Lewis to banish all doubt for me by producing a sterling drive or two in the very near future.
And I will pretend I never said anything.
This message will self-destruct in five minutes.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 08:28
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
I have watched the relevant 'incidents' several times, and it has been suggested that Vettel could have avoided his collision with Max - yes, I know that Max was deemed to be at fault and most will agree with that, but Vettel lost out big time - with damage to his floor, whereas if V had recognised that M had much better tyres and would inevitably overtake eventually he (V) could have retained his position and gone on to finish higher than he did.
The example quoted was how Bottas gave way to Ricciardo rather than defend against him.

I thought Vettel had already left him more than enough room.
He knew Max was faster and like you say if it was a simple overtake then Vettel would have increased his world championship lead over Lewis, he's playing the long game not the short one.

But Max was clearly hot-headed and went far too lairy into the corner and took them both out of contention. The fact Max managed to get back up to 4th on track (5th after time penalty) was extremely lucky and unjust on his part. He could just as easily have taken himself out of the race again like last weekend.

He would easily have gotten past Vettel, absolutely no question about it. But he's impatient and rash and immature. Even more so than last year, surprisingly.


I don't think Bottas gave way to Riccardo, he clearly made an attempt at defending the corner because they almost made contact and I actually thought they were going to. Riccardo is just phenomenal on the brakes. And consistently so as well. I don't know how he manages to do it, so often, and other drivers don't seem to manage it and instead go and wipe out the other car.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 11:53
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I've always thought that a fair penalty for causing a crash is that the 'at fault' driver cannot finish higher than the 'aggrieved' driver - so in this case Verstappen would be relegated to the place behind Vettel. It also means that if the hothead causes the other car to DNF then the hothead us also awarded a DNF.

My version of the punishment fitting the crime.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 12:17
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Originally Posted by david1300 View Post
I've always thought that a fair penalty for causing a crash is that the 'at fault' driver cannot finish higher than the 'aggrieved' driver - so in this case Verstappen would be relegated to the place behind Vettel. It also means that if the hothead causes the other car to DNF then the hothead us also awarded a DNF.

My version of the punishment fitting the crime.
That would be OK if the collision genuinely disabled the victim's vehicle, but there is scope for the victim retiring and thereby taking out the opponent's vehicle - potential for corruption.

We already see DNF being used to secure a replacement gearbox without penalty.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 16:49
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I wonder how the penalty v crime balance is decided. Max is deemed guilty of causing a collision with Seb, gets 10secs and still finishes ahead of Seb. Justice?

In MotoGP Mark Marquez took out Valentino Rossi, continued to cross the line in 5th and was penalised 30secs, so finished outside the points in 18th. VR also got nothing from being in 5/6th place.

In Supersport at Brands Hatch, a rider nudges forward one foot at the start. He stops, uses momentum and then restarts. His penalty is a ride through the pits costing 25secs.

IMHO the penalties are not in balance with the crimes. 10secs for Max seems very light; why not a drive through? Marquez should have been black flagged as he could have done the same thing to others on his macho charge, and Perrin at Brands H could have had a 10secs added at the end of the race.

I wonder at the drivers' & riders' opinions of such matters.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 16:51
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Have they changed the rules on this? Causing an avoidable collision used to incur a drive through. Simply adding 10 seconds to the finishing time seems a bit contrived.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 18:18
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Then we're back to Vettel deliberately sideswiping Hamilton last season.
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 08:22
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
Then we're back to Vettel deliberately sideswiping Hamilton last season.
Didn't he get a 10 second Stop/Go penalty for that?


After he served the punishment Hamilton had a headrest problem that was not at all related to the Vettel incident.


In this case, Max caused damage to Vettel's car resulting in his journey back down the field.
Vettel didn't cause damage to Hamiltons car, his race was not affected by it and was ruined by an entirely unrelated fault.
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 11:02
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If we had a thought bubble for Toto Wolff last weekend, how's,
"Sheest, Hamilton having another bad-hair day."
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 18:40
  #6492 (permalink)  
 
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LlamaFarmer, I had forgotten about the headrest problem - you are right, it was unrelated to the Vettel incident.
What I was trying to say was that the penalty handed to Vettel for deliberately causing a collision was the same as that for causing a collision by misjudgement/error during the normal course of racing. It only seems right to me that any deliberate collision should be treated more severely than an error of judgement - whoever the driver. At the time, Vettel would not have known he wasn't going to cause damage, or leave debris from either his own car or both cars to affect the following drivers.
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Old 19th Apr 2018, 00:22
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The 10 second stop and go that Vettel got is NOT the same as the 10 second penalty issued to Mad Max. Depending on the track/pits, a 10 second stop and go is roughly 30 seconds on the track.
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Old 19th Apr 2018, 00:28
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Agreed. It was just a slap on Max's racing glove. They did not want to hurt his poor wrist.
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Old 19th Apr 2018, 03:24
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Interesting article here, including a proposed increase in fuel allowance for more 'full-power' racing. A full 5kg's worth... .
Why not make the tyres/tires last longer too while they are at it?
Fuel limit increased to allow 'full power' racing in 2019
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Old 19th Apr 2018, 08:03
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But don't most of the teams underfuel already to save time, particularly in races where a safety car is likely?

The numbers might be wrong but I'm sure they often say that each lap of fuel adds 1/10th of a second per lap?

100kg in a 50 lap race = 2kg per lap... so that's a good 1/5th of a second they're carrying around which they may not need? Not sure it'll change much really
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Old 19th Apr 2018, 09:38
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What is the variety of drivers weight?
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Old 19th Apr 2018, 09:40
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What is the variety in drivers weight?
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Old 19th Apr 2018, 11:57
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Originally Posted by RAT 5 View Post
What is the variety in drivers weight?

I'm not sure... I know Nico Hulkenberg was pretty tall and one of the heaviest drivers, penalising him because it meant more weight in that area of the car, whereas other teams/drivers could utilise ballast where it is most effective to get their weights up.


I think a minimum 100kg driver/seat combination would make it fairer... the heaviest drivers are not THAT heavy, the lightest drivers have to have ballast on the back and underside of the seat to bring it up to weight, then the playing field is a bit more level.
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Old 19th Apr 2018, 12:29
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There was an article in Autosport about proposals to introduce a minimum driver/seat weight combination for 2019.(I think!)
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