Formula 1
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,215
Now they have done something even an anorak like me doesn't understand. Apparently for the 2018 season all races will start at ten minutes past the hour, rather than on the hour to improve thr "viewer experience".
Huh?
PDR
Huh?
PDR
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,804
Seems it's to accommodate broadcasters, mainly in North America, who go on air on the hour without showing any pre-race build up. Making the start time that little bit later makes it easier for them to fill a broadcast slot without having to risk missing the start.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,215
Originally Posted by Super VC-10
They've just made fact what has been happening for the last few seasons anyway. I can remember when a 3 pm start meant that the race started on the stroke of 3 pm.
PDR
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Out in the sticks in DE56
Age: 81
Posts: 550
Originally Posted by PDR1
I wouldn't agree with that - as far as I can remember unless there has been some interrupting event (like the rain at Singapore last year) the races have all started precisely on the turn of the hour. Of course the start is the parade lap, but that's actually part of the race so it still counts.
PDR
PDR
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,509
Do you HAVE to take part in the 'parade/warm-up lap? If you choose not to, for other than tech reasons when you have to start from the pit lane, can you start from your grid position? You will have saved some fuel for more pushing later on??
If it is 'part of the race', and you are near the front, there would be time to do a tyre change pit stop at the end of the lap and be ready to start from the pit lane with a change of rubber having been made. Why would you? I've no idea because I don't think there is a tyre that can do a whole race, but with the necessity to use some worn tyres in a 2 or 3 stop race then perhaps there is way to get onto fresh rubber quicker. The permutations are so complex, and we are not told them as spectators. It is a question about if it is allowed.
If it is 'part of the race', and you are near the front, there would be time to do a tyre change pit stop at the end of the lap and be ready to start from the pit lane with a change of rubber having been made. Why would you? I've no idea because I don't think there is a tyre that can do a whole race, but with the necessity to use some worn tyres in a 2 or 3 stop race then perhaps there is way to get onto fresh rubber quicker. The permutations are so complex, and we are not told them as spectators. It is a question about if it is allowed.
Resident insomniac
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 75
Posts: 1,859
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Martian
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by spekesoftly
Seems it's to accommodate broadcasters, mainly in North America, who go on air on the hour without showing any pre-race build up. Making the start time that little bit later makes it easier for them to fill a broadcast slot without having to risk missing the start.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,215
Originally Posted by RAT 5
Do you HAVE to take part in the 'parade/warm-up lap? If you choose not to, for other than tech reasons when you have to start from the pit lane, can you start from your grid position? You will have saved some fuel for more pushing later on??
If any car fails to leave the grid on the start that car may attempt to get going until the lead car passes the last corner, at which point it is retired if it hasn't got away. In theory any car in the pit lane still can't start while a car is stuck on the grid, so they may have to sit there for a whole lap. In practice the race director will "release" these cars if and when he/she believes it is safe to do so, but that's going to be around 30 secs after lights-out.
Whichever happens, you'd be starting the race 20-30 seconds back, with the entire grid to pass and on cold tyres. So I don't think anyone would try it even if it was legal (which I'm not sure it is).
The amount of fuel used on the parade lap is pretty negligible because it's such a slow lap. So not much benefit there either.
PDR
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: A place so nice, they named it twice
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by PDR1
You mean the overall 2 hour limit?
PDR
PDR
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,215
The 2-hour limit comes from the basic definition of a GP. The final lap of a GP race starts when:
* the leading car has raced for 200 miles, or;
* the leading car cas completed 80 laps, or;
* two hours of racing have taken place since the red lights went out for the parade lap (not including any red-flagged time)
There is a further constraint introduced after the fiasco in Canada in 2011 when torrential rain caused the race to be suspended for over two hours and resulted on Jenson Button winning with a race time of 4hrs,4mins (a record as the slowest ever time for a GP win). As there was no mechanism for shortenning an interrupted race they decided to bring in a 4-hour absolute limit from the start of the parade lap (including any red-flag time).
Of course Monaco doesn't actually meet these rules, being only ~160 miles long, but it has "special protected status" for reasons no one can actually remember.
So if a given race is started at 13:00 local time, the absolute last moment the leading car can commence its final lap is 17:00.
There are other rulkes which can all interesting textures - for example the rules state that the GP finishes when the leading car's driver sees the chequered flag regardless of the number of laps completed. In fact the actual wording is [Article 43.2 of F1’s sporting regulations]:
Should for any reason the end-of-race signal be given before the leading car completes the scheduled number of laps, or the prescribed time has been completed, the race will be deemed to have finished when the leading car last crossed the line before the signal was given.
In the 2014 Chinese GP a race official mistakenly showed the flag at the end of lap 55 (a lap early), causing Lewis Hamilton to lift for 1.5 seconds (before the team told him to keep going). After subsequent investigations the officials took the end of the race to be the end of lap 54 - the last time he crossed the line before being shown the flag. The resulting count-back cost Kamui Kobayashi his last-lap pass on Jules Biancci for that critical 17th-place decider...
PDR
* the leading car has raced for 200 miles, or;
* the leading car cas completed 80 laps, or;
* two hours of racing have taken place since the red lights went out for the parade lap (not including any red-flagged time)
There is a further constraint introduced after the fiasco in Canada in 2011 when torrential rain caused the race to be suspended for over two hours and resulted on Jenson Button winning with a race time of 4hrs,4mins (a record as the slowest ever time for a GP win). As there was no mechanism for shortenning an interrupted race they decided to bring in a 4-hour absolute limit from the start of the parade lap (including any red-flag time).
Of course Monaco doesn't actually meet these rules, being only ~160 miles long, but it has "special protected status" for reasons no one can actually remember.
So if a given race is started at 13:00 local time, the absolute last moment the leading car can commence its final lap is 17:00.
There are other rulkes which can all interesting textures - for example the rules state that the GP finishes when the leading car's driver sees the chequered flag regardless of the number of laps completed. In fact the actual wording is [Article 43.2 of F1’s sporting regulations]:
Should for any reason the end-of-race signal be given before the leading car completes the scheduled number of laps, or the prescribed time has been completed, the race will be deemed to have finished when the leading car last crossed the line before the signal was given.
In the 2014 Chinese GP a race official mistakenly showed the flag at the end of lap 55 (a lap early), causing Lewis Hamilton to lift for 1.5 seconds (before the team told him to keep going). After subsequent investigations the officials took the end of the race to be the end of lap 54 - the last time he crossed the line before being shown the flag. The resulting count-back cost Kamui Kobayashi his last-lap pass on Jules Biancci for that critical 17th-place decider...
PDR
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by PDR1
- for example the rules state that the GP finishes when the leading car's driver sees the chequered flag regardless of the number of laps completed. In fact the actual wording is [Article 43.2 of F1’s sporting regulations]:
Should for any reason the end-of-race signal be given before the leading car completes the scheduled number of laps, or the prescribed time has been completed, the race will be deemed to have finished when the leading car last crossed the line before the signal was given.
Should for any reason the end-of-race signal be given before the leading car completes the scheduled number of laps, or the prescribed time has been completed, the race will be deemed to have finished when the leading car last crossed the line before the signal was given.
There is no other way to do it, as long as there is a chequered flag to signal the end of the race and it's in the hands of (fallible) humans!
Instructions to the marshal concerned were usually that if there were any doubt, hang the flag out late, not early, so that the true last lap will count and the result can be declared at the scheduled number of laps(x) even if the leaders drove x+1 laps or more.
Resident insomniac
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 75
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Whilst using children might seem like a welcome idea, there is a lot of 'safeguarding' to be considered.
Each child will need a guardian or chaperone.
A parent will need a 'pass' or will have to pay for a ticket.
Then there is safety - keeping youngsters from getting run over as the cars come to the grid (agreed that they are now pushed rather than being driven).
Then they will have to be herded off the grid (gridgirls can 'look after themselves' and do as they are told in that respect).
Each child will need a guardian or chaperone.
A parent will need a 'pass' or will have to pay for a ticket.
Then there is safety - keeping youngsters from getting run over as the cars come to the grid (agreed that they are now pushed rather than being driven).
Then they will have to be herded off the grid (gridgirls can 'look after themselves' and do as they are told in that respect).
