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Formula 1

Old 3rd Feb 2018, 17:28
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Now they have done something even an anorak like me doesn't understand. Apparently for the 2018 season all races will start at ten minutes past the hour, rather than on the hour to improve thr "viewer experience".

Huh?

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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 18:27
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They've just made fact what has been happening for the last few seasons anyway. I can remember when a 3 pm start meant that the race started on the stroke of 3 pm.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 18:28
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Seems it's to accommodate broadcasters, mainly in North America, who go on air on the hour without showing any pre-race build up. Making the start time that little bit later makes it easier for them to fill a broadcast slot without having to risk missing the start.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 22:16
  #6344 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Super VC-10 View Post
They've just made fact what has been happening for the last few seasons anyway. I can remember when a 3 pm start meant that the race started on the stroke of 3 pm.
I wouldn't agree with that - as far as I can remember unless there has been some interrupting event (like the rain at Singapore last year) the races have all started precisely on the turn of the hour. Of course the start is the parade lap, but that's actually part of the race so it still counts.

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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 22:48
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
I wouldn't agree with that - as far as I can remember unless there has been some interrupting event (like the rain at Singapore last year) the races have all started precisely on the turn of the hour. Of course the start is the parade lap, but that's actually part of the race so it still counts.

PDR
Oh no it ain't! May count as a lap run, but they aren't racing, thus it isn't part of the race. Or am I missing something? Isn't 'racing' (or something approximate) what we are supposed to be watching?
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 13:36
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Do you HAVE to take part in the 'parade/warm-up lap? If you choose not to, for other than tech reasons when you have to start from the pit lane, can you start from your grid position? You will have saved some fuel for more pushing later on??
If it is 'part of the race', and you are near the front, there would be time to do a tyre change pit stop at the end of the lap and be ready to start from the pit lane with a change of rubber having been made. Why would you? I've no idea because I don't think there is a tyre that can do a whole race, but with the necessity to use some worn tyres in a 2 or 3 stop race then perhaps there is way to get onto fresh rubber quicker. The permutations are so complex, and we are not told them as spectators. It is a question about if it is allowed.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 18:18
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If a car hasn't left the pit lane before the window prior to the start of the race closes, then it must start from the pit lane, if it competes in the race.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 18:38
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OK, that answers question 1.

Ideas on #2?
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 20:46
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 21:04
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Originally Posted by spekesoftly View Post
Seems it's to accommodate broadcasters, mainly in North America, who go on air on the hour without showing any pre-race build up. Making the start time that little bit later makes it easier for them to fill a broadcast slot without having to risk missing the start.
You watch one pre-start build, you've seen them all. Talking heads and churn, churn, churn.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 21:57
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As long as they get rid of "time certain" finishes.
OK maybe for support races, but for the main event???
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 23:05
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Originally Posted by RAT 5 View Post
Do you HAVE to take part in the 'parade/warm-up lap? If you choose not to, for other than tech reasons when you have to start from the pit lane, can you start from your grid position? You will have saved some fuel for more pushing later on??
If you fail to start the parade lap you must transfer to the pit lane and start from there. If you start from the pit lane you can't pass the pit lane exit line until the last car from the grid has passed you (look at the review of 2017 brazil to see how that works). The time from the lights-out to the last car passing the pit lane exit is usually around 20-30 seconds but can be longer depending on the circuit layout. I'm not sure what they do at monaco with its reverse-flow pits.

If any car fails to leave the grid on the start that car may attempt to get going until the lead car passes the last corner, at which point it is retired if it hasn't got away. In theory any car in the pit lane still can't start while a car is stuck on the grid, so they may have to sit there for a whole lap. In practice the race director will "release" these cars if and when he/she believes it is safe to do so, but that's going to be around 30 secs after lights-out.

Whichever happens, you'd be starting the race 20-30 seconds back, with the entire grid to pass and on cold tyres. So I don't think anyone would try it even if it was legal (which I'm not sure it is).

The amount of fuel used on the parade lap is pretty negligible because it's such a slow lap. So not much benefit there either.

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Old 4th Feb 2018, 23:06
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Originally Posted by gupta View Post
As long as they get rid of "time certain" finishes.
OK maybe for support races, but for the main event???
You mean the overall 2 hour limit?

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Old 5th Feb 2018, 00:42
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One would hope that Liberty Media also ban cheerleaders at Atlanta Braves games. As the teams owners, it would be highly hypocritical of them not to do so.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 02:44
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
You mean the overall 2 hour limit?

PDR
Yes - but I was also referring to the unfortunate habit here in Australia of defining a race as finishing by a certain actual time eg 16:45 plus one lap
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 12:22
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The 2-hour limit comes from the basic definition of a GP. The final lap of a GP race starts when:

* the leading car has raced for 200 miles, or;
* the leading car cas completed 80 laps, or;
* two hours of racing have taken place since the red lights went out for the parade lap (not including any red-flagged time)

There is a further constraint introduced after the fiasco in Canada in 2011 when torrential rain caused the race to be suspended for over two hours and resulted on Jenson Button winning with a race time of 4hrs,4mins (a record as the slowest ever time for a GP win). As there was no mechanism for shortenning an interrupted race they decided to bring in a 4-hour absolute limit from the start of the parade lap (including any red-flag time).

Of course Monaco doesn't actually meet these rules, being only ~160 miles long, but it has "special protected status" for reasons no one can actually remember.

So if a given race is started at 13:00 local time, the absolute last moment the leading car can commence its final lap is 17:00.

There are other rulkes which can all interesting textures - for example the rules state that the GP finishes when the leading car's driver sees the chequered flag regardless of the number of laps completed. In fact the actual wording is [Article 43.2 of F1ís sporting regulations]:

Should for any reason the end-of-race signal be given before the leading car completes the scheduled number of laps, or the prescribed time has been completed, the race will be deemed to have finished when the leading car last crossed the line before the signal was given.

In the 2014 Chinese GP a race official mistakenly showed the flag at the end of lap 55 (a lap early), causing Lewis Hamilton to lift for 1.5 seconds (before the team told him to keep going). After subsequent investigations the officials took the end of the race to be the end of lap 54 - the last time he crossed the line before being shown the flag. The resulting count-back cost Kamui Kobayashi his last-lap pass on Jules Biancci for that critical 17th-place decider...

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Old 5th Feb 2018, 13:07
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
- for example the rules state that the GP finishes when the leading car's driver sees the chequered flag regardless of the number of laps completed. In fact the actual wording is [Article 43.2 of F1ís sporting regulations]:

Should for any reason the end-of-race signal be given before the leading car completes the scheduled number of laps, or the prescribed time has been completed, the race will be deemed to have finished when the leading car last crossed the line before the signal was given.
Nowt effone exclusive about that as it has been the way we, our predecessors and successors have been doing things for most of motor racing history.
There is no other way to do it, as long as there is a chequered flag to signal the end of the race and it's in the hands of (fallible) humans!
Instructions to the marshal concerned were usually that if there were any doubt, hang the flag out late, not early, so that the true last lap will count and the result can be declared at the scheduled number of laps(x) even if the leaders drove x+1 laps or more.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 13:38
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Of course in F1 doing an extra lap at race speed can consume un-necessary engine life - especially now that they are only allowed 3 engines for the season (and only 2 gearboxes IIRC).

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Old 5th Feb 2018, 14:36
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Gridkids to replace gridgirls.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 16:02
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Whilst using children might seem like a welcome idea, there is a lot of 'safeguarding' to be considered.
Each child will need a guardian or chaperone.
A parent will need a 'pass' or will have to pay for a ticket.

Then there is safety - keeping youngsters from getting run over as the cars come to the grid (agreed that they are now pushed rather than being driven).
Then they will have to be herded off the grid (gridgirls can 'look after themselves' and do as they are told in that respect).
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