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Old 11th Nov 2017, 16:15
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HAM crashes into wall during Q1, likely starting at back.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 09:06
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Oh.


Plus fill in words.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 09:16
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At least that means there will be some action - albeit artificial as the Mercedes is such a better car.

F1 needs to look at what MotoGP have done to encourage actual racing (and more manufacturers, etc).
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 09:21
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Jenson Button to leave McLaren.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 22:01
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Just watching a recording of the 1986 Australian Grand Prix.

It seemed that there were only two commentators - Murray Walker and James Hunt.

Current F1 seems to have up to ten 'presenters'. A meringue?

In addition, it seemed possible for Alain Prost to drive a couple of feet from Nigel Mansell's rear for lap after lap - couldn't be achieved today.
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Old 13th Nov 2017, 11:26
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
It seemed that there were only two commentators - Murray Walker and James Hunt.

Current F1 seems to have up to ten 'presenters'. A meringue?
Can't speak for the Ch4 coverage, but thh Sky coverage has only two race commentators (Martin Brundle and David Croft, in the official commentary box), but these are augmented periodically by "pit lane" reporting from Ted Kravitz who is called in (audio only) with info he's extracted from teams, and Natalie Pinkham who has the job of getting interviews with drivers that fail to finish. In addition to that they do have one former driver (usually Paul Diresta or Anthony Davidson, but sometimes Bruno Senna) doing detailed driving analysis at the "skypad" screen.

ISTR that's more or less the same as the later BBC/ITV coverage used to deliver except for the skypad bit, but that's a new innovation which wasn't around in Murrey's day.

Before and after the race (but never during) there is additional support from a couple of ex drivers (Damon Hill and Johnie Herbert) plus Simon Lazenby as "anchor". The non-race team formally hand over to the commentators as the 2-minute(?) hooter goes off telling the team crews to leave the grid, and they hand-back coverage during the podium ceremonies. The non-commentary team go off and get remarks and reactions from team principals, chief engineers, mechanics etc. And then after the race (and after quyali, and indeed at the end of the free practice sessions) Ted Kravitz records a 30 minute roving stream of consciousness piece called "Ted's Notebook" which usually includees technical details, insider comments etc, but may equally have bits about the visiting celebs (rare) and behind-the-scenes people. These pieces are almost always interesting, and can be found on the skyf1 website if you're not a sky subscriber.

In addition, it seemed possible for Alain Prost to drive a couple of feet from Nigel Mansell's rear for lap after lap - couldn't be achieved today.
No, mainly because the cars are quite a lot faster and partly because the tyres have been explicitly designed to suffer degredation when overheated. This seemed like a good idea at the time, but is now considered less so (and may be changed). The extra speed comes as much from aero developments (and the current aero rules) as from basic horsepower, and that's why it degrades when following closely.

Hamilton's charge was quite remarkable, as much for the way he spent the whole race overtaking in a car that is known to suffer substantially more than others when in traffic as for the detail that he *must* have run the race disytance faster than everyone else. Having started from the pit-lane he would have been about 10 seconds behind the leader at the end of the first sector on the first lap, but he finished lass than 5 seconds behind the leader at the end - ergo he must have run the race distance faster than vettel.

It's true that he had a new engine and was given extra use of quali modes during the race, but then so was Vettel so that balances out. The extra power is of no use unless it can be used without burning out the tyres, and I think that was Hamilton's big achievement here.

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Old 13th Nov 2017, 15:22
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McLaren's Interlagos tyre test with Pirelli cancelled due to security concerns | F1 News
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Old 13th Nov 2017, 17:23
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
Just watching a recording of the 1986 Australian Grand Prix.

It seemed that there were only two commentators - Murray Walker and James Hunt.

Current F1 seems to have up to ten 'presenters'. A meringue?

In addition, it seemed possible for Alain Prost to drive a couple of feet from Nigel Mansell's rear for lap after lap - couldn't be achieved today.
If you want to see real racing take a look at the 1969 gp at Monza. Yes I know that there has been massive changes since then in F1 but ever since downforce real close racing lap after lap no longer happens.
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Old 13th Nov 2017, 17:36
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If you want to see real racing take a look at

Time and again we see some driver/car combination giving us exciting and skilful racing = overtaking. We've seen it with the likes of Lewis, Seb, Ricardo, Max being forced to start down the grid in various races and giving us what we want to see.
Someone asked the question about having some kind of handicap system and having the best & fastest starting a coup of rows down the pack. This might be a complete non-starter and a pure 'at the bar discussion'. Could be fun though.

And once again, a la USA, we saw the No.2 grid position have the inside line to the 1st corner. To me both seem a grid mis-design.
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Old 13th Nov 2017, 20:14
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Hamilton's charge was quite remarkable, as much for the way he spent the whole race overtaking in a car that is known to suffer substantially more than others when in traffic as for the detail that he *must* have run the race distance faster than everyone else. Having started from the pit-lane he would have been about 10 seconds behind the leader at the end of the first sector on the first lap, but he finished lass than 5 seconds behind the leader at the end - ergo he must have run the race distance faster than vettel.

It's true that he had a new engine and was given extra use of quali modes during the race, but then so was Vettel so that balances out. The extra power is of no use unless it can be used without burning out the tyres, and I think that was Hamilton's big achievement here.
Lewis Hamilton: Formula 1's three-engine limit for drivers 'sucks' - BBC Sport


"The car is going to be a bus next year, it is going to be so heavy, like a Nascar (stock car)," Hamilton said after the Brazilian Grand Prix, in which he was able to push his engine hard because a new one was fitted to aid his fight back from a pit-lane start. "The braking distances get longer, the brakes are always on fire, on the limit. I know it sounds negative but as a racer we want fast, nimble cars where we can attack always every single lap. Unfortunately that is not what we generally have. I had that today but I was coming from a different place. If you look at the front guys, they were managing and that is what we are normally doing. I don't think that is too exciting for people to watch. If you look at the most exciting races - particularly when it rains - we don't have those limitations. "
Restricting aero seems like an obvious fix - get rid of those fancy front wings, barge boards and other fancy flicks etc (and the pug ugly t-wings and shark fins). No real world benefits for industry and maybe the cars will be able to run closer
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Old 14th Nov 2017, 09:16
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Restricting aero seems like an obvious fix - get rid of those fancy front wings, barge boards and other fancy flicks etc (and the pug ugly t-wings and shark fins). No real world benefits for industry and maybe the cars will be able to run closer
Agreed.

When you consider LH's performance from the pitlane (with his new 'super engine'), can we see teams fitting a fresh engine and taking the grid penalty as being worthwhile?
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Old 14th Nov 2017, 09:26
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Originally Posted by RAT 5 View Post
And once again, a la USA, we saw the No.2 grid position have the inside line to the 1st corner. To me both seem a grid mis-design.
It's only a problem if the pole-sitter gets a bad start - the pole gridslot will still get to the turn-in point first otherwise. Also the pole position is on the racing line, in principle giving the 2nd-place gridslot poorer traction. In this case the effect was less marked because of the rain before the race.

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Old 14th Nov 2017, 09:40
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Restricting aero seems like an obvious fix - get rid of those fancy front wings, barge boards and other fancy flicks etc (and the pug ugly t-wings and shark fins). No real world benefits for industry and maybe the cars will be able to run closer
But they want to make competing affordable. Aero is cheap (compared to power or fuel economy), and if you see an interesting idea on another car you can copy it and have it on your car in about four weeks. Engine upgrades take a minimum of about 12 weeks to get onto the track, and cost an absolute fortune to do.

They are stuck betwen a rock and hard place. If they want to keep costs down (to reduce the domination of the established teams) then they must do things like limit the number of parts/engines/gearboxes they can use in a season. Otherwise you go back to the "bad old days" when each car would use 3 engines in a weekend - one for practice, a quali-special and a race engine. So that's six engines per team per race - 120 engines per season. Ditto gearboxes etc. The lesser teams can't afford that any more. But they can afford continuing aero development.

One thing that *might* help a bit would be to specify minimum orthoganal areas for the propulsion and braking cooling intakes, then allowing variable shuttering to avoid over-cooling (currently banned on a "cost/safety of complexity" basis). This might allow cars to follow more closely for longer without overheating things (especially brake temps). But to really follow closely would require the removal of the foreplane, and that would massively reduce speed in medium/high speed corners - by as much as 15 secs/lap on some circuits.

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Old 14th Nov 2017, 20:51
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I disagree - Williams is not exactly a low budget team and they've been struggling with downforce the last couple years. You can't just look at the other guy's car and figure out why it has better downforce and/or lower drag than yours - you need a big, expensive wind tunnel and talented (expensive) people who know how to use it. I think if Red Bull had the same engine as the Mercedes, they would have dominated this year (in the same way that Vettel did in the 2011-2013 time frame) because their aero is so good.
A big reason why they can't follow as close now days is that there isn't as much ground effect with the flat bottoms and plank. Ground effect downforce doesn't suffer nearly as much when following closely - and the big increase in front wing size this year made following closely even worse.
Get rid of those huge, complex wings. Sharply limit the wing sizes - maybe 25% of what they are now, implement a silhouette formula so they can't add barge boards and other crap that 'isn't a wing but acts like one'. Who cares if they go slower in the corners - they'll go faster on the straights, braking distances will increase, and the racing will get better.

I remember watching an interview with Mario Andretti many years ago (when he was still an active driver) talking about racing at Indy. He said when they first started turning 200 mph laps at Indy, they were going 250 mph on the straights, and 150 mph in the corners - now with all the aero they're doing 230 on the straights and 220 in the corners (and the drop in the corners is just because they scrub speed when turning, they don't lift if the car is working). He preferred the old way because you don't normally crash on the straights and you actually had to drive the corners...
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Old 28th Nov 2017, 17:22
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Formula 1: British supercar firm Aston Martin will "probably" enter sport in 2021.

As 'title sponsors' for Red Bull, will Red Bull become Aston Martin Red Bull or Red Bull Aston Martin?
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Old 29th Nov 2017, 11:40
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Alfa Romeo set to make F1 return with Sauber partnership.
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Old 29th Nov 2017, 17:00
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As 'title sponsors' for Red Bull, will Red Bull become Aston Martin Red Bull or Red Bull Aston Martin?

Or RAMBO racing? Red Aston Martin Bull Organisation. Scare everyone else of the track like a raging bull. Somehow Pamplona racing does;t quite sound right.
OK, I know, let's keep this serious. I was just starting the weekend early.
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Old 29th Nov 2017, 17:58
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There was a convention for the car established once chassis-engine. Viz:- Lotus Climax, Lotus BRM, Lotus Ford. The entrant/ team/ sponsor being a separate entity from the car. Team Lotus, Gold Leaf Team Lotus or R.R.C.Walker.
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 13:44
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Formula 1 drivers' union gets '100%' membership due to concerns over future.
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 10:26
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Originally Posted by Pom Pax View Post
There was a convention for the car established once chassis-engine. Viz:- Lotus Climax, Lotus BRM, Lotus Ford. The entrant/ team/ sponsor being a separate entity from the car. Team Lotus, Gold Leaf Team Lotus or R.R.C.Walker.
And then there was the Repco-Brabham.
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