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Formula 1

Old 2nd Aug 2017, 07:26
  #5981 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
And we'd get rid of this mind-numbingly stupid, $100+ million pound turd polishing exercise of aero development (such as the current 20+ element front wings) that have zero real world use.
Aside from the detail about how you frame a regulation that prohibits aero optimisation ("You can't have that aero feature!" "What aero feature? That's just a lap joint in the tub and an external stringer!"), what you'd then end up with is a horsepower race - which is far more expensive.

F1 costs what it costs because it can. If you stop the teams spending money on one aspect then they'll spend it on another. But they will still spend all the money their sponsors haven't glued down.

PDR
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Old 2nd Aug 2017, 18:02
  #5982 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Aside from the detail about how you frame a regulation that prohibits aero optimisation ("You can't have that aero feature!" "What aero feature? That's just a lap joint in the tub and an external stringer!"), what you'd then end up with is a horsepower race - which is far more expensive.

F1 costs what it costs because it can. If you stop the teams spending money on one aspect then they'll spend it on another. But they will still spend all the money their sponsors haven't glued down.

PDR
NASCAR has used a silhouette formula for years and knows quite well how to enforce it (although the FIA being who they are, they'd probably need to re-invent the wheel 10 times before they got it right).
At least most advances in engine technology and suspensions have real world applicability - unlike those aero bits sticking every which way on todays F1 car.
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Old 2nd Aug 2017, 22:32
  #5983 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1
Damn - can I have another go at it?
OK then

Originally Posted by PDR1
The fans are low-thrust and don't move enough air for vertical orientation to gain much - they worked by producing the low-pressure zone under the car and the amount of air that had to be moved for this was pretty small. But it was more than enough to destroy the foreplane lift of any car that was less than 5-6 car-lengths behind.
Wasn't the ban put in place because of turbulence and all the rubbish that was blown in the face of following cars and I postulated that filtering and deflecting it vertically through lightweight ducting would prevent this anti-social habit and benefit from additional downthrust (albeit as you say almost negligible). Additionally fan-driven suction ground-effect cars wouldn't be so sensitive to yaw as the plain aero driven tunnel undertray types and today's pure aero types that really need an undisturbed head-on airflow.

With regard to the "brittleness" of sideskirts and the loss of control when they get damaged and only suddenly discovered when the driver hits the brakes at the next corner, is this anymore scary/dangerous than when today's front wing breaks going over a nasty kerb or car-to-car contact and the whole assembly jams under the front wheels leaving the driver a helpless passenger with no steering and very little braking. Surely with modern materials for the skirts and protected from wheel-to-wheel combat by the side-pods, they would force the drivers to stick to track limits and avoid the kerbs and would be far less fragile than today's "polished turd" multi element wings, which, even if only slightly deranged by accidental contact, produce showers of razor sharp shards that cause punctures or even instant deflation and WILL, sooner or later cause injury to a following driver, with or without a Halo!!
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Old 9th Aug 2017, 14:55
  #5984 (permalink)  
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Something that might interest you folks.


https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-pe...-Formula-1-car
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Old 10th Aug 2017, 05:08
  #5985 (permalink)  
 
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I'll bet the tires and brakes used up cost many times per lap more than the fuel. Now let's take all the other associated costs of fielding a team and divide those by the number of laps run in a season. Development costs alone would make those fuel, tires and brakes costs look positively Lilliputian in comparison. Then we can calculate staff salaries and transportation costs later. Or not!
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Old 10th Aug 2017, 16:16
  #5986 (permalink)  
 
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An article in The Telegraph puts the lowest cost of a minor crash in Moto GP at 10,000 gbp.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 11:06
  #5987 (permalink)  
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Kimi to stay.
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Old 25th Aug 2017, 04:43
  #5988 (permalink)  
 
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Excellent news that Ferrari and the Iceman will continue their arrangement for another season. The last driver to win a driving championship in a red car has the chance to complete his F1 driving career in fine style while providing his team with loyal service and a good points haul. I would suppose this also means Seb has a stable platform from which to launch his 2018 campaign?

Well at long last, the summer "break" is history! Now we'll find out how much work really got done and by whom! Spa. A beauty of a course. And a practical test of the theory that the silver cars are better able to take advantage at the high speed/horsepower tracks. And for the latter portion of the season due to a superior supply of unused powertrain components. Of course the fickle weather in the Ardennes has been known to rise up and wreck the best-laid plans of men before, so the potential for random factors affecting the outcome are not to be ignored.

Enjoy the return of racing everyone!
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Old 25th Aug 2017, 06:46
  #5989 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting that Vettel still has no contract for next season. Come to that, neither has Alonso.
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Old 25th Aug 2017, 08:10
  #5990 (permalink)  
 
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Well, Hamilton has poured cold water on the idea of Seb Vettel joining him at Mercedes, so itís difficult to see what other options are available to him.

Alonso is probably waiting to see if McLaren conclude a deal for Mercedes engines. Again, itís difficult to see what other options are available to him with other drivers already signed up to or in pole position for drives with leading teams.
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Old 26th Aug 2017, 15:02
  #5991 (permalink)  
 
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Hamilton gets his 68th pole in his 200th race. That's better than 1:3.
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Old 27th Aug 2017, 04:37
  #5992 (permalink)  
 
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Well, Hamilton has poured cold water on the idea of Seb Vettel joining him at Mercedes, so it’s difficult to see what other options are available to him.
Just Seb's new contract with Ferrari lasting until the end of 2020. They'll both be happier that way anyway!

Hamilton gets his 68th pole in his 200th race.
Yeah, he's still blazing fast at Spa. Plenty of potential drama on tap at turn one! (with Seb starting alongside)
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Old 27th Aug 2017, 08:01
  #5993 (permalink)  
 
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Spa is a circuit where 2nd place on the grid can almost be a better place to start from, because the 2nd (and even 3rd) place cars can slipstream that looooong run up the hill on the Kemmel straight and snatch the lead at Les Coombes. It will depend on who gets the better start, and who manages to get the power down the earliest coming out of La Source.

If Lewis can keep the lead into Les Coombes and show the middle sector form he showed yesterday for the rest of the lap then he should be able to break the DRS gap by the time it's turned on, leaving Seb to dice with Valtiry. But it's not guaranteed!

But it is worth remembering that Seb's quali 3 result was "tow-assisted", and may not represent his real one-lap pace.

PDR
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Old 27th Aug 2017, 13:42
  #5994 (permalink)  
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Interesting contrast of body language of the first three in the cool-down room and on the podium.
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Old 27th Aug 2017, 14:10
  #5995 (permalink)  
 
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It's clear that Mercedes still has the upper hand with regard to power and straight line speed. It says a lot for the Ferrari (and Vettel) that they can run with the Mercedes while being pretty obviously down on horsepower.
Sadly for the Italians, it's going to be very difficult for Ferrari to overcome a power deficiency at Monza...
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 17:09
  #5996 (permalink)  
 
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Just going to put this here for the 'haters' to ponder

Lewis Hamilton breaks pole record with 69th career pole position at Italian Grand Prix - BBC Sport

the above does not happen by accident.
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 17:13
  #5997 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
It's clear that Mercedes still has the upper hand with regard to power and straight line speed. It says a lot for the Ferrari (and Vettel) that they can run with the Mercedes while being pretty obviously down on horsepower.
From the Spa performance I'd have said that the Ferrari is pretty much on a par with the Merc for power, and was probably overall the faster car, but Lewis drove an intelligent race and managed to stop them exploiting the advantage.

Having just watched the Monza qualifying (where it was so wet that power was essentially irrelevant) I get the feeling that Ferrari had trimmed the downforce to almost nothing to get the highest possible straight line speed, and so they paid the price in the wet when they just couldn't get heat into either the inters or the extremes. I think Mercedes and RB also trimmed the downforce, but not as much. Even so, Lewis's 1.1sec lead on that pole lap was just driving skill, reprising his rain-meister role. Valtiri clearly couldn't do the same thing in the same car, so it's not a car or setup thing.

Tomorrow may be different - it will be dry, the reds will be fast and the track allows overtaking. Absent car failures or silly safety cars, I suspect Lewis will still win and that Valtiri and Seb will be with him on the podium, but I'm not sure in which order.

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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 18:12
  #5998 (permalink)  
 
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Have to say a big well done to Lance Stroll. Yes hes only there in the first place because his old mans loaded but he has been improving race by race. That today in those conditions was a top lap. Anybody watch the F2 race? Utter carnage at the finish!
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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 03:35
  #5999 (permalink)  
 
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From the Spa performance I'd have said that the Ferrari is pretty much on a par with the Merc for power, and was probably overall the faster car, but Lewis drove an intelligent race and managed to stop them exploiting the advantage.
I watched part of Free Practice and the commentators were saying Ferrari was down ~7kph in straight line speed to the Mercs. Given I agree with your assessment that Ferrari had removed significant downforce to maximize speed on the Monza straights and were still down on top end, that still suggests a significant power advantage for the Mercs.
Not trying to downplay Lewis's achievements, but it seems clear that Mercedes has the upper hand on the long fast tracks, while Ferrari is better at the tight twisty stuff. Ferrari will be fortunate to make it on the podium at Monza, but watch out when they get to Singapore...
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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 05:33
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I watched the F2 race, plenty of action there. Got GP3 , F2 and F1 to look forward to today.
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