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Old 25th Jun 2017, 19:25
  #5861 (permalink)  
 
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Vettel also got 3 points on his super license giving him 9. 12 points would give him a 1 race ban
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 01:30
  #5862 (permalink)  
 
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arketip, re H's headrest, you could well be right.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 07:27
  #5863 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder if this is one of those rare cases where the FAI will intervene after the fact. They can't change the race result (although they could have his points expunged), but they do have both responsibility and authority to regulate driving standards. This would include fines, disqualifications, further "license points" and race bans. They can't impose grid penalties or other in-race punishments (these are down to stewerds) but they could have him up before the FAI court for unsportsmanlike driving. I certainly feel that this kind of purile, petulant road rage shouldn't go with such mile punishment. If the stewards on the day weren't such wimps they'd have black-flagged him.

PDR
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 08:26
  #5864 (permalink)  
 
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I should be pleased that we have had another race at Baku, the only new circuit that isn't a Tilke-designed wasteland.
However although the highly-paid drivers seemed to find it necessary to run into each others cars at any opportunity, the race still sent me to sleep and I awoke to find they'd red-flagged it and we were being shown endless re-runs of two world champions behaving like the go-carting children they once were.
What has a once-gentlemanly sport sunk to?
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 08:29
  #5865 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
I certainly feel that this kind of purile, petulant road rage shouldn't go with such mile punishment. If the stewards on the day weren't such wimps they'd have black-flagged him.

PDR
Nonsense, the punishment was severe, those arguing it was not are letting the emotions rule because he finished in front of Hamilton.

The fact Hamilton finished behind Vettel was down to Mercedes and nothing to do with Vettel.

Had the headrest incident not happened and LH had gone on to win with SV finishing in 4th there would be little call for further punishment.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 09:34
  #5866 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Loggerheads View Post
Nonsense, the punishment was severe, those arguing it was not are letting the emotions rule because he finished in front of Hamilton.
I'm afraid you're making things up - I never made any reference 5to the consequences for the result or Hamilton, so I'll be expecting an apology for those alternative facts.

My reason for suggesting the punishment was too mild is not emotive, but simply one of observing what other offences generally attract the 10-second stop-go penalty. Historically this penalty is applied for jump starts, pit lane speeding, ignoring blue flags, or unfair blocking or causing an avoidable collision (without malice). To deliberately drive into another car AT ANY TIME is a far more serious offence. So it should attract a rather greater punishment that (say) ignoring blue flags or outbreaking yourself at a corner.

PDR
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 10:15
  #5867 (permalink)  
 
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Allan Lupton - "two world champions acting like the go carting children"

Vettel, yes.

Hamilton? What did he do wrong? Reports have stated that telemetry from his car shows he didn't brake or significantly change speed through the corner.

Last edited by Blues&twos; 26th Jun 2017 at 10:55.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 10:30
  #5868 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting from a wider perspective how these days it is acceptable, despite cast-iron evidence to the contrary and a clear verdict against you, to swear blind that not only weren't you in the wrong but it was in fact the other guy's fault.
PS In any other Formula or perhaps a driver lower in the F1 hierarchy, ramming a competitor (I refer to the second incident) would be an instant black flag.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 10:42
  #5869 (permalink)  
 
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It's interesting that the stewards only penalised SV after LH was told to pit to fix his head rest. Almost like a consolation prize for LH.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 10:46
  #5870 (permalink)  
 
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As the lead car behind the safety car it is his responsibility to ensure that the cars restart safely and don't risk hitting the safety car before it leaves the track. At Baku the pit-lane entrance is a heck of a long way down the longest straight in F1. On the previous safety car Lewis had slowed at the same place, by the same amount, and have come very close to overtaking the safety car before it got to the pits, so it's hardly as if he was doing something that wasn't needed.

But all of that is irrelevant. Article 39.13 of the F1 Sporting Regulations clearly state:

Originally Posted by The FIA
39.13 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP" will be sent to all teams via the official messaging system and the car's orange lights will be extinguished. This will be the signal to the teams and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.
At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall more than ten car lengths behind it.
So it is up to Vettel to stay behind the leader and avoid colliding with him.

The next sentence says:

In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other drivers or impede the restart.
But those who actually watched the race clearly saw nothing erratic or unexpected in what Lewis did. In fact the teletry showed that Lewis did precisely what he had done before, but Seb started accelerating after the apex of the corner. SO it was Seb who was at fault, and who should be punished rather more severely for not having the integrity to admit it.

Seemples.

PDR
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 10:49
  #5871 (permalink)  
 
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"Allan Lupton" "What has a once-gentlemanly sport sunk to?"

What utter TOSH and NONSENSE! I am not turning on to watch F1 to watch a "gentleman sport", if you want that, look elsewhere.

History of F1 has have had great rivalries where drivers are not afraid to show their emotions.
Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Villeneuve, Montoya, Rosberg and Hamilton.

I am no Hamilton fan, however he was very unlucky to loose the race the way he did, he lost because of his seat, no other reason. Vettels punishment was fair, it only seems "wrong" because he managed to get in front of Hamilton.

Although not Lewis fault, he has a history of doing this during safety car restart, Vettel should have remembered this. Vettels actions afterwards was wrong. But these things helps making F1 spiced up, f... gentleman's sport, who needs such nonsense.

You race to win, not to come second and be a great gentleman. (like Tim Henman)
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 11:12
  #5872 (permalink)  
 
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Vettels punishment was fair,
Ooooh.., I don't think so. The punishment wasn't for running into the back of Hamilton, it was for driving alongside and then deliberately steering into Hamilton's car. That, in all normal circumstances in any type of motor racing, gets the driver hauled off the circuit if his car is still running.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 11:19
  #5873 (permalink)  

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I don't normally follow this thread but came on to see what people were saying about THE incident.

I can't believe Vettel was not black-flagged. He was careless driving into the back of Hamilton who had control of the pace and then committed something that is a crime elsewhere by deliberately driving into another car.

Vettels punishment was fair
What utter TOSH and NONSENSE!
I'm no Hamilton fan either but Vettel was a disgrace whoever he drove into.

I can't believe people are defending him, especially as his subsequent explanations of what happened differ from the truth by quite a wide margin....
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 12:13
  #5874 (permalink)  
 
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The 10 Second Stop and Go Penalty would have put Vettel firmly out of the race, and Hamilton should have gone of into the sunset and taken the victory.

However Mercedes messed up Lewis car, with the head rest, so that destroyed Lewis race and victory.

Vettel did not drive into Lewis car from the back on purpose, and you have to ask questions how that actually happened. Again Lewis can't be to "blame", because he sets the pace behind the safety car.

Yet I am not convinced Lewis is as innocent as he claims he is either.

They later bumped wheels at slow speed, not a big deal, but for sure not nice by Vettel, but his perception of Lewis earlier was clearly with a different view than Lewis had on the sudden slowing of the car out of the turn.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 12:27
  #5875 (permalink)  
 
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The stop-go for Vettel should have been for running into the back of LH on the restart (causing an avoidable collision without malice).

For the deliberate collision he should have been black flagged and probably banned for a few races afterwards. It's utterly unacceptable and gives a terrible impression of what is acceptable to millions of people watching it.

I'm hoping some of Vettel's sponsors do the honourable thing and withdraw their support from someone who has, IMHO, shown themselves unfit to be there.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 12:36
  #5876 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by BusAirDriver View Post

They later bumped wheels at slow speed, not a big deal, but for sure not nice by Vettel
Not a big deal!? That was an intentional stupid road rage nasty move. What will be next!?
And he only had to blame himself for driving into the back of Hamilton. Nobody else.

Vetel not wanting to recognize/apologies for it says a lot about the personage. Quite a few around like that in F1 it seems.....
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 12:47
  #5877 (permalink)  
 
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Vettel stupid and irresponsible to bump wheels like that. I know the cars are strong but it could have weakened something. Doing 200+mph and have a steering failure through this stupidity could have had a nasty ending.
The penalty was too light IMO
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 13:25
  #5878 (permalink)  
 
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They later bumped wheels at slow speed, not a big deal..
'They' didn't bump wheels. Vettel carried out what is called a barging manoeuvre in motor racing by deliberately driving into the side of Hamilton's car. As the stewards verdict showed they most certainly thought it was a 'big deal' in that they penalised him with points and gave him a 10 second penalty. The question is, why wasn't he black flagged?
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 14:10
  #5879 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by strake View Post
The question is, why wasn't he black flagged?
Maybe because it was at low speed?

I donít excuse Seb Vettel for one moment. The initial collision was his fault and the subsequent barge was hot headed and foolish. He might have minimised the damage to his reputation by being man enough, after cooling down a bit, to accept culpability and apologise. However, the 10 second stop & go seems fair enough; if it hadnít been for the unfortunate matter of the head restraint then Seb would have lost a shed load of WDC points (and leadership of the WDC table) to Lewis.

As has also been noted, SV has had 3 points added to his Super Licence and is closing in on a one race ban.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 14:49
  #5880 (permalink)  
 
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Pulling up alongside the lead car under a safety car is itself an offence, of course.

PDR
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