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Formula 1

Old 25th Aug 2014, 13:17
  #3181 (permalink)  
 
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the best one was Nelson Piquet swinging his fist at ? (I forget now) .......
PLOVETT. I think it was Emilio de Villota .......
It was in fact Eliseo Salazar. (see Plovett's youtube link )
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Old 25th Aug 2014, 14:09
  #3182 (permalink)  
 
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David1300

Rosberg with one s
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Old 25th Aug 2014, 14:16
  #3183 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by david1300 View Post
.....sometimes when you show the size of your cajones you are prepared to take some pain on the way.
It's a shame you couldn't have been similarly accommodating to Lewis Hamilton over recent seasons.......
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Old 25th Aug 2014, 14:24
  #3184 (permalink)  
 
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No-one whines the way Hamilton does.

Especially when he gets a dose of his own medicine.
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Old 25th Aug 2014, 20:44
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Hamilton should have used his head if he didnt want to lose those points to Rosberg. Should have slowed down at the back and let Rosberg attempt to lap him and then 'accidently' wiped him out.
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Old 25th Aug 2014, 20:54
  #3186 (permalink)  
 
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SSOFTLY. E Salazar of course!!!. Many thanks. Memory not what it was.VULCANISED
Hamilton having a dose of his own medicine????. I think it's a long long time since he had contact with someone when it was his error!! I'm never quite sure why people have such a down on such a talented guy, whose sole aim is to be the fastest and best. Can anyone explain to me why it is so wrong for him to be downhearted when things go badly for him??
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 07:05
  #3187 (permalink)  
 
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I think it's a long long time since he had contact with someone when it was his error!! I'm never quite sure why people have such a down on such a talented guy, whose sole aim is to be the fastest and best.
Massa will think different.

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Old 26th Aug 2014, 07:19
  #3188 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, I know, but that was 3 years ago. That's a long time in F.1 I think pretty well everybody has had contact with someone SINCE then, but not Hamilton. Nothing since then. Been hit, of course, but not done the hitting.
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 07:45
  #3189 (permalink)  
 
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Yeah. But in three years time this will be three years ago. So let's all move on and put this behind us. I love that phrase. Not.
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 07:54
  #3190 (permalink)  
 
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Hmmm a German who will do anything to win against drivers who are more talented than him.. Now that does have a familiar ring to it..


Rosberg stuck the nose of his car in a gap that didn't exist. He knew exactly what he was doing. Endplates come off a modern F1 car and it makes little difference to overall aero performance, but you can guarantee it will slice a tyre. Rosberg and everyone else knows this. I also think that Mercedes are showing a spectacular lack of leadership through their obvious inability to control their employees Messers Hamilton and Rosberg. Rosberg has dropped considerably in my estimations as a GP Driver, he's a driver of limited ability in a very fast car, and like Vettel before him, no amount of world championships will ever win him the respect of his peers.
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 08:23
  #3191 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ericlday View Post
Rosberg with one s
Typing on my iPad isn't a strong point of mine, and I'm surprised I don't make more typo's.

Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
It's a shame you couldn't have been similarly accommodating to Lewis Hamilton over recent seasons.......
It's because Hamilton is such an arrogant whinger and precious princess. While I appreciate his skill, I find it hard to like him. Remember him saying "no-one will ever overtake me around the outside" - he ate those words, unfortunately not with any humble pie.

I couldn't have said this better:
Originally Posted by vulcanised View Post
No-one whines the way Hamilton does.
Especially when he gets a dose of his own medicine.
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 09:32
  #3192 (permalink)  
 
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IMHO this is not really a case of whether one likes a particular driver or not.

It's not about the fact that 2 drivers made contact, due to the fact that one of them was trying to make a point or prove that he does have balls, or that he is capable of going wheel to wheel and coming out on top.

This is about the fact that a driver hit his team mate, in a totally unnecessary and avoidable incident.

As I posted earlier:-

Rule 1. Never hit your team mate.

Rule 2. Never, ever, ever break Rule 1.

If you do break Rule 1 expect your team, who are paying your wages and paying the repair bill, to ream your behind for it.

I'm not a huge fan of Hamilton as a personality, but I do think he's one of the best out there in pure driving ability. I very much doubt Rosberg could have hauled a car from a pit lane start to a podium finish as Hamilton did in Hungary.
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 10:24
  #3193 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by david1300 View Post
It's because Hamilton is such an arrogant whinger and precious princess. While I appreciate his skill, I find it hard to like him.
Funnily enough, I agree with every word.
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 11:15
  #3194 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by david1300 View Post
It's because Hamilton is such an arrogant whinger and precious princess.
Have you ever met him? I have, along with Rosberg.

Before meeting them I was neutral about Hamilton and even tended to think towards what you posted. However he was nothing like that and was far nicer and far more accommodating than Rosberg. Rosberg left half way through the allocated meeting time, without so much as a by-your-leave, whilst Hamilton happily stayed beyond the time and then some, happily taking extra time to talk to us all.

He came across nothing like an arrogant whinger or precious princess - unlike Rosberg.
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 11:23
  #3195 (permalink)  
 
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Good. Until you meet someone, you don't actually know them. Just before quali or just before the race, I saw an interview with him by Natalie Pinckum from the Sky Team. He came across as a very well adjusted young man, no arrogant side to him whatsoever, who loved his life and his racing, and, sure, he wants to be the best, and admitted to being down when things were against him that weren't his fault. There would be something wrong with him if that wasn't the case.
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 14:01
  #3196 (permalink)  

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Point taken about Lewis's rush back to the pits and subsequent extra undertray damage.
The lap is about 3.4 miles round. He had about 3 miles to go back to the pits, Keeping it down to 60-70mph would have put him 2 or more laps down by the time he got to the pits. Six or two threes really, go for it and hope you get away with it.
AS DC pointed out, Rosberg is not as good a dicer as Hamilton, at least it didn't come to fisticuffs in the pits
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 14:14
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Ahh.. DC - a graduate of the Eddie Jordan School of talking shite.
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 14:42
  #3198 (permalink)  
 
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Now gents lets get real, would we?
Both are excellent drivers, both race for the championship and both like to win this championship. Race and nationality and liking or not liking someones dresscode does not change that a bit. Wether one or the other is more talented than the other will not be decided by us race fans, but will be proved by driving results on the raceway. Neither of them would be in the cockpit they are at the moment if any kind of those personal attacks to one or the other driver from some posters would hold true.

On the racetrack is no place for being nice to any of the other drivers, regardless of team. Rosberg tried to overtake at a position, where it only would have worked with some cooperation from Hamilton, which he didn't grant. This kind of overtaking or countering an overtaking has been done by Lewis against Rosberg several times this year, and Rosberg prevented some collisions by going of the track or being forced of the track, go back and look at the races yourself.

Hamiltons performance when overtaking (starting from the back of the grid and funishing with podium) is possible due to this killer instinct to go for the smallest gap and expect others not to hitting him and even go off track for him, and most do due to his reckless driving in the 2011 season when the stewards didn't punish such driving. But he himself would not leave his racing line to avoid an accident with another driver, he has never done it. That is ok, but some day he has to learn that others might go for gold as well.

The real scandal of this event is not this normal and not uncommon racing accident, which by the way was not even investigated by the stewards, but the behaviour of the Mercedes management. The team leads the constructor championship with so much points in advance, that they can make an extra stop for both cars in all following races and win anyway. Therefore it is no drama when two teammates race against each other for the benefit of the spectators and their own goal, to win the drivers championship, and collide in doing so. And it is better than any teamorder, which might have favoured Rosberg anyway due to starting from pole and having more points in the championship.

So what is the reason to start a bashing of a driver in front of TV cameras minutes after the race ended, prior the press conference and prior any kind of hearing with the drivers could be accomplished? That's the way schoolboys are treated by their teachers or children by bad parents, but it has nothing to do with managing a zig-million euro bussiness.

The problem there imho is Niki Lauda, who has two hats during a race, being a supervising management member of Mercedes and a correspondent for RTL TV.
Whatever he says will be noticed not as personal oppinion as a former race driver, but as an important management member of Mercedes. That leaves Toto Wolff in a miserable position, as he has to follow the wording of Niki Lauda wether it is good for the team or not and wether the cause justifies such judgement and such critique or not. Otherwise Mercedes management would look silly, like they do now by the way.

Correct response would have been:
Everybody shut up, we will evaluate after the race together with our drivers what can be done to prevent escalating things further. The stewards are there to monitor the race and saw no cause to punish one of the drivers, so we have to see it the same way.

Remember the crisis management of Red Bull Racing after the crashes between Webber and Vettel? Webber might not have liked it, but it served a higher purpose, to safe the face of the team, the team management and the drivers.

At the moment those items are down the drain at Mercedes.

By the way, i do not care who will win the championship, as long as i can watch interesting trainings, qualifyings and races on weekends.

Last edited by RetiredF4; 26th Aug 2014 at 22:26.
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 15:16
  #3199 (permalink)  
 
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RF4 - You aren't seriously suggesting that was even a remote overtaking opportunity for NR? He out-braked himself, knew he had nowhere to go other than into Hamilton or off the track - probably giving up a place or two in the process..
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 16:01
  #3200 (permalink)  
 
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No, in the end it was not, i agree and i think in hindsight Rosberg agrees too.
But to conclude that it was some kind of planned act on Rosbergs behalf or some intent on Hamiltons behalf to force an early accident to get rid of the most competitive opponent, is way off the track of sensible reasoning. It is emotional to think such scenario would be possible, but with the risks involved no driver would take the odds in a comfortable situation like it is for Mercedes and both drivers.

Would Rosberg have known that it would end up like it did, he would not have startet his overtake move. And would Hamilton have known that Rosberg would try anyway, he would have avoided a collission instead loosing a tyre and thus the whole race. Those are intelligent drivers, and they are not reckless and not criminal. But they do make mistakes, even the best do. Same like pilots of aircraft. At the end an overtake maneuver is first a judgement call and then it develops to a backing off, to a successful overtake or to a close call.

We see this kind of action in all racing events, even in MotoGP, and that's why we are going to racetracks, are watching TV and buy costly magazines. It is the salt and pepper in motorsports, called action. If you yourself like cars driving in formation around a track and if you like team orders, feel free to do so. If this time comes back again i'm going to spend my saturday and sunday afternoon driving my oldtimer car or do someting else more usefull, regardless wether a german driver or one from another country leads the championship.

And as mentioned before, the personal agreement to disagree between both drivers on the track and afterwards is racing. Go to a cart track (i used to do professional racing with my son for some years when he was young, even met Rosberg on one of those occasions on the racetrack in Parma) and observe the youngsters between 8 and 16 years behaving exactly the same way. It was our task as parents to calm down these emotions instead of taking part in these fights and in these disagreements. And that is what a usefull Team Management should do, protect their drivers from unnecessary emotions, protect them from unnecessary personal accusations and prevent them from fighting over disagreements in public. Mercedes did not do that and they did not protect Hamilton from being used by the press for a good headline. They used no fire extinguisher, the used oil to fight a smoldering fire.

Heads will roll, i'm sure about. It is only a question of time. And it would be wrong if it would be one of those brillant drivers. Mercedes will win both championships this year only with one of those drivers, it might be different next season.

Last edited by RetiredF4; 26th Aug 2014 at 22:20.
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