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EU Politics - Hamsterwheel

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EU Politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 13th Jun 2012, 05:05
  #1461 (permalink)  
 
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Very worrying article about how some Spanish institutions are already limiting withdrawals - or have altered their rules so they have the power to do so.
To take that further, has anyone seen anything reported about the "rumour" that the EU as a whole has been discussing plans to limit withdrawals from anywhere in the Eurozone? I know it would be something they would have to think about under the worst case "Oh SH" scenario of everything collapsing, but that sort of thing coming out into the public domain kinda tells me that they are a hell of a lot more worried about the state of things than they say.....

(Seemingly it's legal under Article 65 of the EU Internal Market "rules", but if the rumour is true then it's a serious step as we are not just talking about cash withdrawal restrictions in only Spain and Greece)
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Old 13th Jun 2012, 05:52
  #1462 (permalink)  
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Of course one must blame the British for all this ruinous Grecian drama.
It was their Lord Byron, revered in Greece today as a national hero, who died at Missolonghi in Greece in 1824 and who was an instrumental figure in the Greek War of Independence. He it was who was so pivotal in ensuring the destruction of Ottoman rule and the rise of Philhellenism in Britain between 1821 and 1832. More than any other single man, Byron gave Greece their freedom from what is today Turkey. Without Byron the ethos of Greece would still lie in practice, as it still does in spirit, east of the Bosphorus.
Indeed, so great a Grecian was Byron that he wrote a poem called 'the Curse of Minerva' to in condemnation of the actions of Lord Elgin in removing the Parthenon marbles and sending them, quite legally, to a safer place.
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Old 13th Jun 2012, 07:53
  #1463 (permalink)  
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To take that further, has anyone seen anything reported about the "rumour" that the EU as a whole has been discussing plans to limit withdrawals from anywhere in the Eurozone?
Business Insider:
REPORT: The EU Is Considering Limiting ATM Withdrawals And Imposing Border Checks If Greece Leaves The Euro
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Old 13th Jun 2012, 08:00
  #1464 (permalink)  
 
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Last edited by Tableview; 13th Jun 2012 at 08:11.
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Old 13th Jun 2012, 08:26
  #1465 (permalink)  
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Ari Konomia Isfukt
Indeed it is................
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Old 13th Jun 2012, 08:34
  #1466 (permalink)  
 
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here's one for KAG...... The people don’t want a referendum on Europe, insists No 10 - Telegraph


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Old 13th Jun 2012, 08:46
  #1467 (permalink)  
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Financial Times: We isolate and overload Germany at our peril

Visiting the Financial Times a couple of weeks ago, Luis de Guindos, Spain’s economy minister, predicted: “The battle for the euro will be fought in Spain.”

With Spain’s decision this weekend to accept international aid to save its banks, the battle is now joined. The stakes are very high. Writing in this paper, Niall Ferguson and Nouriel Roubini warn that Europe is “perilously close” to “repeating the disasters of the 1930s”. As in the 1930s, a conflict in Spain is now seen as critical to a wider struggle for the fate of Europe. It cannot be long before an international brigade of Keynesian economists sets off for Catalonia. Once again, Germany is cast as the villain in a pan-European drama.

Of course, nobody questions modern Germany’s democratic credentials. Only in the wilder fringes of the Greek press has Chancellor Angela Merkel been compared to Adolf Hitler. But the picture that emerges from the world’s press is of a stubborn Germany, whose actions threaten the world. This weekend’s Economist magazine cover showed the global economy as a sinking ship and beseeches Ms Merkel to “start the engines”. The magazine summarises an international “consensus on what Ms Merkel must do”, including “shifting from austerity”, “a banking union with euro-wide deposit insurance” and a “limited form of debt mutualisation”. Privately, world leaders from London to Washington and Rome are urging similar actions on Berlin.

The demands being made of the German government spring from a sincere desire to avoid a rerun of the 1930s, when economic disaster provoked political catastrophe. However, while these demands may make economic sense, they are politically unrealistic and dangerous. They are textbook solutions that fail the real-world test. Worse, if enacted, they would risk provoking the very political radicalisation they are ultimately meant to prevent. Consider just one of the proposals on the shopping list: a Europe-wide bank deposit insurance scheme. As a senior Dutch politician who shares the German view, puts it: “We cannot push through a banking union when the French have just cut their retirement age to 60 and we have raised ours to 67.” From the Dutch and German point of view, it is unfair for their citizens to underwrite the banks of countries using their own money to pay social benefits that are more generous than those on offer in Germany or the Netherlands.

This dilemma illustrates why a relatively technical-sounding exercise such as bank-deposit insurance has profound implications for national sovereignty. Once you take a big step towards the mutualisation of debt across Europe, you are forced towards much deeper political union. It is not just the much-discussed need for a European “minister of finance”, with the power to override national governments. To avoid bitter disputes over fairness, you would also need to harmonise European social-security systems. That would be the work of decades. The Merkel government is not ruling out eurozone bonds or EU deposit insurance for ever. It is arguing that any such moves can come only as part of a bigger project – the formation of a political union. Anything else will feel like giving southern Europe a German credit card, without setting a credit limit.

It is hard to see how European politicians could achieve such profound reforms within weeks or months – as the Americans and others are urging. A recent Pew opinion poll showed strong majorities across Europe against ceding national sovereignty over budgetary matters to a central authority. The same poll showed that Ms Merkel was widely admired – not just in Germany but across Europe. On this, the public shows more sense than the intellectuals who are lining up to give Berlin a kicking. While Ms Merkel’s handling of the crisis has not been faultless (whose has?), she has one huge achievement to her name. She has prevented the political extremes from gaining a foothold in the country.

Anybody who thinks that is a phantom danger should take a look at Germany’s neighbours. In France, a third of the electorate recently voted for a far-right or a far-left candidate for the presidency. In the Netherlands – like Germany, a creditor nation that is sick of bailing out southern Europe – the far right and the far left are running first and second in the opinion polls. In Austria, the far right are at nearly 30 per cent in the polls. Germany has all the conditions for a similar backlash. The country’s voters have every reason to feel misled about the euro. They were once promised that the single currency involved a no-bailout clause that would prevent German taxpayers from having to support other eurozone countries. But Germany has already had to accept potential liabilities of €280bn to fund Europe’s various bailouts – and there will be further demands to come. Simply funding Germany’s capital contribution to the European Stability Mechanism will increase the country’s budget deficit this year from €26bn to €35bn.

And yet despite the burdens and risks that Germany has already taken on, the country’s government finds itself abused for not doing even more.

Isolating and berating Berlin, while trying to force the country to underwrite the finances of the whole of the eurozone, is a politically dangerous course. The rise of far-right nationalists in Greece or the Netherlands is deeply regrettable. The rise of the far right in Germany would be a disaster.
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Old 13th Jun 2012, 09:21
  #1468 (permalink)  
 
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Ref: ORAC's post above.

no matter what 'solutions' are touted, it becomes even more evident that the Eurozone just won't/can't work and any attempt at the 'solutions' will ultimately result in civil unrest and division.

the whole debt 'problem' has now been going on nearly as long as WWII in Europe.
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Old 13th Jun 2012, 09:48
  #1469 (permalink)  
 
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Cyprus too ?

Debt crisis: Cyprus 'asks for €5bn from Russia' - Telegraph
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Old 13th Jun 2012, 11:39
  #1470 (permalink)  
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Only in the wilder fringes of the Greek press has Chancellor Angela Merkel been compared to Adolf Hitler.

Obviously I must be living in Greece as I've read such comparisons here...
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Old 13th Jun 2012, 17:33
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A measure of the madness that these rescues entail

I can't recall which paper or papers the below information was in, so you'll just have to take my word for it ( or not ).

1) Because of its size in the Eurozone , Italy has to supply E 22 Billion of the 100 Billion to Spain

2) This cash will have to come from the markets and Italy is currently paying around 6.15 % for 10 year bonds.

3) Because this is a rescue the money has to be cheaper to the recipient than they could borrow themselves in the market. Joaquin Almunia, an EC commissioner ( coincidentally Spanish ) said that the rate payable by Spain was likely to be 3-4% ( against market rate of 6.8% ).

4) This therefore gives rise to the ridiculous situation that Italy ( second highest per capita debt after Greece and also close to the tipping point ) will now be borrowing high and lending low i.e. paying another E 660 million interest per year, worsening their own position and maybe actually hastening their own collapse.

This nonsense about the relative lending rates makes me believe that the responsible ( ? ) politicians have totally lost the plot, are only concentrating on the crisis under their noses and are more or less pulling out the sand-bags that they used to stuff into last week's financial hole to now use to fix this week's leak ( apologies for maybe unclear metaphors there.)

The above numbers are those being used in the papers, none are as yet confirmed ( except current Italian and Spanish 10 yr bond yield ) as the size of loan and terms are not finalised.

Last edited by AlpineSkier; 13th Jun 2012 at 18:17.
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Old 13th Jun 2012, 18:28
  #1472 (permalink)  
 
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If this report is right, this could be very bad timing for any Greeks wanting to say No to austerity but Yes to euro

Why the fuss about Osborne's Grexit remarks? Schauble has been saying it for months – Telegraph Blogs

[QUOTE]14.35 We mentioned earlier on (12.45) that Die Zeit was predicting a third bailout for Greece. We have more details now. The article warned:

Even if Greece sticks to its reform path, the country will need fresh money this summer, according to Die Zeit's information. If a state insolvency is to be avoided, then the Europeans will need to jump in again. The Bundestag (lower house of parliament) may possibly have to discuss a third Greek package again. A double-digit billion euro amount is being discussed.

Greece has already had two bailouts: €110bn in May 2010 and €130bn this year. Worryingly for Greece, the article suggests that the new rescue would come with further economic targets to meet.QUOTE]

Be rather difficult arguing for no hardship in one meeting whilst at the beginning of the next meeting then asking for more cash !

That would go down really well in Berlin, The Hague and Helsinki.

Last edited by AlpineSkier; 13th Jun 2012 at 18:32.
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Old 13th Jun 2012, 20:42
  #1473 (permalink)  
 
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the third bailout requirement was identified when the ink was till drying on the second... the brilliant minds in the EU still dont get it.. even if it were drummed into them with a 2x4 they still wouldnt get it.
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Old 13th Jun 2012, 21:04
  #1474 (permalink)  
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It's a consolation not to be a German slum landlord in Athens.
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Old 14th Jun 2012, 04:31
  #1475 (permalink)  
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The more eurozone bailouts there are, the worse it will get
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Old 14th Jun 2012, 07:06
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“A common currency means common government; the one is meaningless and impossible without the other.”
Enoch Powell, in 1971.

He was correct about this and about so many other things, particularly immigration. Unfortunately the credo of political correctness has buried his wisdom and anyone who recognises his brilliance and foresight is a pariah these days. Great, I'm a pariah and loving every minute of it!

This BBC News - Who's afraid of the euro crisis? graphically illustrates the way the poisoned chalice that is the euro will spread its contagion.

Spain could be downgraded to 'junk’ within three months, rating agency Moody’s has warned, as it slashed the country’s credit rating by three notches
So clearly the bailout was a huge success.

As we can see, the Euro is working as it was meant to. Brilliant! We are saved.
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Old 14th Jun 2012, 08:06
  #1477 (permalink)  
 
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Old 14th Jun 2012, 08:20
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A quck step back in time, to march this year...

Van Rompuy says monthly crisis-summits are over

23.03.12 @ 15:54

EU council president Herman Van Rompuy sees the eurozone in "calmer waters" as market and consumer confidence return, marking "the end of the sequence of 'summits of truth'," which have been held almost monthly. "The European Council, as the Union’s 'crisis body' takes a moment to rest," he said.
and flash forward to today....

Greek bank withdrawals accelerate

Today @ 08:59
Greeks cash withdrawals from banks are accelerating. Up to €900 million is being taken out daily in the run-up to elections on Sunday. "There has been a deterioration in the situation in the past few days," a senior Greek banker told the Wall Street Journal.
French bank draws up Greece contingency plans

Today @ 08:57
Credit Agricole bank has contingency plans to leave Greece should the country exit the eurozone, reports the Wall Street Journal. The French bank is the largest foreign-held bank in Greece. Experts say the withdrawal could cost the bank billions of euros and damage its reputation.

Last edited by stuckgear; 14th Jun 2012 at 08:22.
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Old 14th Jun 2012, 08:26
  #1479 (permalink)  
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Every thing is just working perfectly..isnt it???
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Old 14th Jun 2012, 08:29
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back on the sinking good ship EU more plans for more officers..

EU to create new human rights envoy

13.06.12 @ 19:14
BRUSSELS - The EU will beef up its foreign affairs team within weeks by hiring a Special Representative for Human Rights (EUSR), according to EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton.


Ashton spoke on Tuesday (12 June) in the European Parliament in response to a recommendation by MEPs on the foreign affairs committee to create the post.
The envoy is to represent the EU in international discussions and be expected to engage with the UN, to chair high-level human rights dialogues and to lead consultations with third countries on human rights issues, the committee says.
hmm, third countries ??

meanwhile, below decks on the waterlogged good ship EU....

Legal charges against Bulgarian publisher after Brussels speech

13.06.12 @ 18:57
Following a hearing in the European Parliament on Bulgarian media freedom, legal charges have been brought against one of the speakers, newspaper publisher Lyubomir Pavlov, who complained in Brussels about illegal Bulgarian state aid for pro-government press. The European Newspaper Publishers' Association will be sending a fact-finding mission to Bulgaria.
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