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EU Politics - Hamsterwheel

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EU Politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 2nd Jun 2012, 21:21
  #1361 (permalink)  
 
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Just in case my last post is not clear, I would like to say that I feel that decisions made by a small coterie of politicians for mainly personal reasons of prestige have had such horrible negative n millions of people that they should be executed for their abuse of power.
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Old 2nd Jun 2012, 21:27
  #1362 (permalink)  
 
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Cape:
KAG: You've done that to death now. It's boring, pointless, and sly. Give it a break. Find something new or original or amusing.

One might wonder what on earth made you think your "demonstration" was in anyway relevant.
You might wonder, I think it's clear to others, and it's in fact your obdurate refusal to see anyone's point of view but your own that makes your comments boring, repetitive and pointless.

Last edited by Tableview; 2nd Jun 2012 at 21:27.
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Old 2nd Jun 2012, 21:55
  #1363 (permalink)  
 
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After a Spanish exit from the euro, there would be nothing left to exit from.

Spain is in 'total emergency’, the EU in total denial - Telegraph

after 'Spexit', there would be nothing left to exit from. With Spain’s “total emergency”, the point at which denial and bluster become absurd has been well and truly reached, but this being the EU, the gamesmanship goes on. Still the pointless demands for “decisive action” continue, even though the only action that would possibly constitute a remedy is politically untenable if member states are to maintain any pretence of democratic accountability.
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Old 2nd Jun 2012, 22:37
  #1364 (permalink)  
 
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A non-resident Greeks opinion....

Stuck Between Demagogues and Vulgarians - Taki's Magazine
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Old 3rd Jun 2012, 04:15
  #1365 (permalink)  
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Alpine skier:
I agree with the fact politicians have to face their responsabilities, and I don't believe you'll find anybody saying the opposite. It is a matter of justice.

And concerning your last post, keep in mind that a majority of Greeks (citizens) want to stay in Eurozone.

And this is somewhat a matter of justice to wonder what's the use for Greece to have Euro but not having the advantage to have a shared currency, which would be to borrow form the ECB directly instead of making rich the stock exchange market and the traders.

Table, hit a nerve it seems?
Your "demonstration" involving Paddy, Mick and whoever else remains irrelevant.
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Old 3rd Jun 2012, 04:48
  #1366 (permalink)  
 
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This isn't a question directly related to the above few posts, but as a US denizen who has been a EU policy/future obsessive for years....what is the actual chance of the voters getting an EU in/out referendum.

I read just today that the Tories said they are putting a ref in their 2015 manifesto. But you've already been there when Mr. Cameron offered one before the last election.

A close English friend of mine who lives here in the US with whom I had lunch today said she thinks that all three major parties' leaders in the UK know the EU is going to fail entirely on its own--both the currency and the EU itself. So they have decided rather than take a stance now, just kick the can down the road to 2015 manifesto and let nature take its course beforehand. That way they don't have to go through the divisive run up to a referendum with all the costs involved.

She thinks the EU will be an entirely failed enterprise by 2015 and the UK can then just pick up the pieces of its own situation once the EU is no more.

She's very wise and has always made predictions in the past about UK politics during our marathon discussions over our "swift half" (which she always points out is never swift nor is a half ever involved. )

Just wondering what the wise UK folks on here think about the referendum?

Last edited by baggersup; 3rd Jun 2012 at 04:49.
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Old 3rd Jun 2012, 04:57
  #1367 (permalink)  
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Baggersup,
It seems you are unaware Cameron has just denied UK a referendum on EU membership recently.
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Old 3rd Jun 2012, 05:48
  #1368 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure how recently you mean KAG, but during the last month there has been a lot of newspaper comment that the Labour party is seriously considering commiting to a referendum (at least partly to embarrass the Tories ) and that has engendered momentum from the renascent Tory right-wing for Cameron to pre-empt this by jumping in and becoming the first to say it will be in the manifesto.

Haven't read of any absolute veto from Tory HQ to the above proposal, but then , for the moment it is rumour and counter-rumour.
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Old 3rd Jun 2012, 08:52
  #1369 (permalink)  
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Streetwise Professor: Europe in the Matrix Red Pills and Blue Pills.

EU treaties - not worth the paper they're printed on......

FT: Defiant Spain to test the bond market

..........Mr Rajoy’s government is contemplating outside aid for banks in the form of a direct injection of funds from the eurozone’s €500bn rescue fund, the European Stability Mechanism, or a new round of sovereign bond purchases by the ECB. Those ideas have not gone down well in Brussels or Frankfurt, where ECB president Mario Draghi came close to openly scolding Mr Rajoy for his handling of Bankia. European officials are vexed by the Rajoy government’s apparent decision to choose brinkmanship with both Berlin and Frankfurt over the terms of any help.........

Of particular concern to EU and German officials is Spain’s insistence that any aid come without strings attached. Although Mr Rajoy has gained powerful allies in his push to get the ESM to inject funds directly into banks rather than lending to the government – a process that would only add to Spain’s sovereign debt levels – the new treaty that governs the ESM does not now allow such an injection.

EU officials said there is a good chance that the ESM board could change the rules once the fund is up and running this summer
................

Last edited by ORAC; 3rd Jun 2012 at 08:53.
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Old 3rd Jun 2012, 10:31
  #1370 (permalink)  
 
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Of particular concern to EU and German officials is Spain’s insistence that any aid come without strings attached. Although Mr Rajoy has gained powerful allies in his push to get the ESM to inject funds directly into banks rather than lending to the government – a process that would only add to Spain’s sovereign debt levels – the new treaty that governs the ESM does not now allow such an injection.

EU officials said there is a good chance that the ESM board could change the rules once the fund is up and running this summer
................
so, yet again, before the show is on the road, its demonstrably flawed.


brilliant !
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Old 3rd Jun 2012, 11:02
  #1371 (permalink)  
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I foresee several problems.

The fund is $500 billion, and remember this is the fund the IMF said should be leveraged up to $1-2 trillion - but nobody would lend the money, hardly surprising knowing how the rules change. Is that enough?

The Spanish say the need $100 billion - that probably means $200 by the time all the rocks are turned over and the Spanish regions, like Catalonia, have laundered their debt through their regional Casa.

Then add in the Greek banks who will want to borrow to cover their debts, as will the Portuguese.

Then there are the Irish. remember the Irish government was solvent, all their problems started with bailing out their banks, you think they'll agree to the new arrangement unless their loans are renegotiated directly to the banks - with no conditions - and get themselves out from under?

Which would leave the Italians looking at their bank debts.

That talked of figure of $2 trillion sounds more and more inadequate, and $500 billion as another short term filler kicking the can down the road with the overall debt continuing to grow.
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 06:52
  #1372 (permalink)  
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Grauniad: Germany weighs up federal Europe plan to end debt crisis

............In a speech in Italy at the weekend, the financier George Soros warned that Merkel had no more than three months to fix the euro, but outlined the prospect of a grim new eurozone controlled by Berlin.

"The likelihood is that the euro will survive because a breakup would be devastating not only for the periphery but also for Germany," he said. "Germany is likely to do what is necessary to preserve the euro – but nothing more.

"That would result in a eurozone dominated by Germany in which the divergence between the creditor and debtor countries would continue to widen and the periphery would turn into permanently depressed areas in need of constant transfer of payments … it would be a German empire with the periphery as the hinterland."..........

In return for yielding to the pressure to pay to save the euro, Berlin will insist on major steps towards a eurozone federation or political union with budgetary, fiscal, and scrutiny powers vested in Brussels and in the European Court of Justice, meaning vast transfers of sovereignty from member states.......
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 07:03
  #1373 (permalink)  
 
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So, they may have lost in 1945 but maybe they are the Mastervolk after all. I'd rather live in a Europe run by the Germans than most other nationalities, so ........ Deutschland Ueber Alles!
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 11:08
  #1374 (permalink)  
 
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[quote] Tableview
So, they may have lost in 1945 but maybe they are the Mastervolk after all. I'd rather live in a Europe run by the Germans than most other nationalities, so ........ Deutschland Ueber Alles!


+1

Be even nicer if they could run the UK too.......
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 11:46
  #1375 (permalink)  
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I'd rather live in a Europe run by the Germans

Is this coming up for a PPRuNe vote ? If so, based on my 25 years residence there, I'd rather shoot myself. (Although that wouldn't be necessary as I'd have died of boredom long before I got around to it...)

Last edited by OFSO; 5th Jun 2012 at 11:47.
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 12:59
  #1376 (permalink)  
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There is no solution to EMU that does not make matters worse for Germany

Where now for Economic and Monetary Union? Like some Leninist vanguard, the answer from policymakers in the eurozone and their willing dupes posing as serious and intelligent commentators is "forward!"

..............Deficits and debts are symptoms; the cause of the EMU crisis is the loss of competitiveness of certain countries reflected in huge current account deficits.

Given the magnitude of the problem "internal devaluation" cannot work but putting it right requires an adjustment in relative prices – between surplus and deficit countries. One "solution" is that Germany should accept higher inflation and boost domestic demand but the scale of lost competitiveness would require inflation rates that would be intolerable in Germany for this solution to "work". What is required is an ex-ante adjustment in relative prices via nominal exchange rate adjustment not ex-post adjustment via relative inflation.

The other "solution" is greater fiscal union. But this could only "work" by evolving into an arrangement under which annual transfers – "gifts" not loans – of €150bn to €200bn were paid in perpetuity from current account surplus countries to deficit countries to obviate the need of the latter to make the necessary adjustments through their trade accounts. That would wreck Germany's economy and its public finances.

EMU is the problem, and within its existing configuration there is no solution that does not make matters worse for peripheral countries and Germany. The inability of mainstream politicians in the eurozone to face up to this may be understandable since to do otherwise would face them with an existential threat.

However, this has meant that in some countries opposition to EMU has been taken up by parties whose other policies are "extreme" in one way or another so that opposition to EMU is tainted as "extreme".

This of course simply reinforces the status quo in the political establishment whose dream has always been that deepening crisis will lead inevitably to "more Europe" or as Lenin put it, "worse is better".

Derek Scott is a former economics adviser to Tony Blair
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 14:44
  #1377 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe the ideal would be the Swiss, but that would be more boring than the Germans!

In Heaven, the police are English, the chefs are French, the engineers are German, the lovers Italian, and it's all run by the Swiss.

In Hell, the chefs are English, the engineers are French, the police German, the lovers Swiss, and it's all run by the Greeks.
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 18:06
  #1378 (permalink)  
 
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Europe run by the Germans.

for: the trains would run on time
agin: the shops would be shut whenever you actually needed them (eg before 09:00 hrs, lunchtime, after 16:00, most of saturday, all day sunday)
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 18:18
  #1379 (permalink)  
 
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Try France then :
Trains : run on time most of the time, but when they are late it's hours late, and frequently on strike.
Shops : Supermarkets open long hours but small shops and government offices closed at times when it suits normal people to go there.

Also they have this way of ensuring that multiple visits are required for any process, for example in a particular process :
The office where step 1 has to be carried out is in 'x' and only opens on Thursday afternoon for 2 hours.
The office where step 2 has to be carried out is in 'y' and only opens on Wednesday afternoon.
The office where step 3 has to be carried out is in 'z' and only opens on Tuesday.
Now solve the puzzle. The steps must be carried out consecutively in the order above. The document they give you in office 1 is only valid for 48 hours ...............!
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Old 6th Jun 2012, 22:53
  #1380 (permalink)  
 
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A Politician living up to their campaign promises.

France's new socialist government cut the country’s retirement age in the face of the eurozone’s deepening crisis, citing “social justice” to explain a move that goes against austerity efforts across the region.
French president Francois Hollande cuts retirement age - Telegraph
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