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EU Politics - Hamsterwheel

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EU Politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 29th Dec 2011, 21:14
  #441 (permalink)  
 
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I remember riots caused by the increase of tuition fees (up to £ 9,000). The first and the second photo I linked are about students riots:
And how exactly did the
austerity measures due to debt in the Eurozone
"ignite" the "student riots" again?
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Old 29th Dec 2011, 23:48
  #442 (permalink)  
 
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 02:47
  #443 (permalink)  

Flashes from the Archives of Oblivion
 
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but that is not EU politics and there is a thread dedicated to that very own subject matter.
Just responding to whatever was posted ! Now late, will reboot and get back manana !!
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 05:37
  #444 (permalink)  
KAG
 
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the thing is KAG, your arguments are circular. You make a presentation, it is shown to be fallacious, which you ignore then move on to another presentation, also shown to be fallacious, before returning to a previous presentation.
If you had the time to read a bit the thread last page you would have understood that the Greek thing was not my argument, Alpin Skier who was speaking to me brought it up. And my answer (if you allow me) have not changed (why would it) because history hasn't changed: Goldman sachs the bank helped Greece to twist its finance numbers last time I checked, hard to count that as corruption coming from EU! You think it is. Alright. I don't care much because at that point that's more than being stubborn, and you make impossible a sound discussion to happen.

I won't change the facts to please you, sorry about that. Each time we will have to speak about Goldman sachs and Greece cheating I will say the same thing: they cheated. As simple as that.
If because my position is stable you insist in calling it fallacious and circular, then I give you the same comment on yours, in addition to hatress, propaganda, and even insults.

Meanwhile Italy borrowing cost has eased a bit, quite important when everybody thought it would become worse and worse, and I didn't see you writing here it was good news.

I am amazed, and I am not the only one, to see how much hate you have towards EU and Eurozone, and how much energy you spend to show us you want it to fail.
Continue to be negative like that, it seems you enjoy yourself.


If you were the least interested in debts, instead of crying wolves about countries you don't live in, you would be interested about your country that has close to 9% deficit, one of the worst in Europe, and has the highest total debt (government, corporate, personal) debt per capita in the world. QE used as medecine against a sickness that doesn't want to leave is bringing inflation on what could be soon recession, the worst situation ever. The difference is that in your country you have an extremely huge total debt problem with no new tools to fight it, while in Eurozone the fact that the economic/political tools to manage Euro are not completely set and available, gives a lot of room and possibilities not used yet for action.
Being from UK, and writing on the EU thread, I am surprized that all your time spend to speak about debt is concerning all of the countries but yours, in much more difficult situation than many Eurozone countries concerning debt and has its own issues, even if The Telegraph and others are not focusing on your country these days. Think out of the box and see the general situation as it is, not like it is fashionable to speak about in the news paper. You know as much as me that the news paper after a while will be sick to speak about Eurozone and EU, EU will have to go on and the news paper will change subject. It was a time when Greece was on the first page of all news paper everyday, now that's like they forgot it even existed. Fashion. Only a matter of time.

If the next subject is the country that has the most debt in the world, yours, don't be surprised.

Take care of your country and its huge debt problem (hidden for now by QE) before speaking everyday again and again about the others.
Because I made clear I am an European, under EU, and you made it clear that you are from UK (or England, not sure about the Scotland feeling on the matter... Scotland is usully much more EU/Euro than England) and not EU, so I wish you well in UK, wish me well with EU, this is basic respect and politeness.

You might have realized that many things are happening the way I explained it here before hand (ECB, Euro rate decreasing, UK isolation, City), and if you were open minded a bit you would start a real respectful discussion with me and instead of having to lose time to reply to your EU attacks again and again, we might find a common viewpoint that is necessary for a positive outcome of the crisis, and a positive attitude between different European citizen.
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 09:33
  #445 (permalink)  
 
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and yet again KAG, you make a statement about the EU, which is incontravertably shown to be false and refuse to enter into any form of discussion.

You simply make false statements and present them as fact and avoid any form of discussing them, despite numerous attempts to have a discussion.

dis·cus·sion

   /dɪˈskʌʃən/ Show Spelled[dih-skuhsh-uhn] Show IPA
noun

an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., especially to explore solutions; informal debate.
despite repeated attempts to engage in a discussion you will not. you make obtuse statements, then run away from discussing them. All you do it trot out some pro-EU propaganda then avoid any further discussion, then rinse and repeat until you recycle the same old hackneyed politburo rubbish.

what you want as a discussion os for people to agree with your false propaganda and thats it, no questioning or examination.

i think you've been in China too long.

And now in your post you resort back to your fail safe position bigotry toward the UK. Here's a tip KAG, i dont give a rats ass what you think of the UK, I am not some xenophobic union jack waving brit, i've spent most of my life living overseas, my family background is non UK and to be honest i can't wait to get my ass out of it. What i take offence to is bigotry.

You might have realized that many things are happening the way I explained it here before hand (ECB, Euro rate decreasing, UK isolation, City), and if you were open minded a bit you would start a real respectful discussion with me and instead of having to lose time to reply to your EU attacks again and again, we might find a common viewpoint that is necessary for a positive outcome of the crisis, and a positive attitude between different European citizen.
Really KAG, Really ?

did your predictions involve regling going to china for aid to bail out the EU ? did your predictions include some 9 summit meetings to rescue the Euro with nothing achieved ?

you have performed no acts of nostradamus similarity, achieved no predictions, all you have done is trot out EU propaganda then run away from discussion when it has been show to be false.

And you have the audacity to claim other people as not being open minded ?



sorry again your argument trips over its own shoelaces and falls flat on its face. like i have said before, and i will say it again, i used to be in the pro-EU camp, howver the actions of the EU as an administrative body have changed that opinion. you on the other hand, trot out utter garbage or EU propaganda and refuse to discuss it and if pushed fall back to anti UK bigotry.
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 11:02
  #446 (permalink)  
 
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Posted by Loose Rivets here: http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/4728...ot-course.html

quoted as below: thank you rivets.

AN OPEN LETTER TO GERMAN CHANCELLOR ANGELA MERKEL

By Frederick Forsyth

Dear Madam Chancellor
PERMIT me to begin this letter with a brief description of my knowledge
of, and affection for, your country.

I first came to Germany as a boy student aged 13 in 1952, two years
before you were born. After three extended vacations with German
families who spoke no English I found at the age of 16 and to my
pleasure that I could pass for German among Germans.

In my 20s I was posted as a foreign correspondent to East Germany in
1963, when you would have been a schoolgirl just north of East Berlin
where I lived.

I know Germany, Frau Merkel, from the alleys of Hamburg to the spires
of Dresden, from the Rhine to the Oder, from the bleak Baltic coast to
the snows of the Bavarian Alps. I say this only to show you that I am
neither ignoramus nor enemy.

I also had occasion in those years to visit the many thousands of my
countrymen who held the line of the Elbe against 50,000 Soviet main
battle tanks and thus kept Germany free to recover, modernise and
prosper at no defence cost to herself.

And from inside the Cold War I saw our decades of effort to defeat the
Soviet empire and set your East Germany free.

I was therefore disappointed last Friday to see you take the part of a
small and vindictive Frenchman in what can only be seen as a targeted
attack on the land of my fathers.

We both know that every country has at least one aspect of its society
or economy that is so crucial, so vital that it simply cannot be
conceded.

For Germany it is surely your automotive sector, your car industry.

Any foreign-sourced measure to target German cars and render them
unsaleable would have to be opposed to vetopoint by a German chancellor.

For France it is the agricultural sector. For more than 50 years
members of the EU have been taxed under the terms of the Common
Agricultural Policy in order to subsidise France’s agriculture. Indeed,
the CAP has been the cornerstone of every EU budget since the first
day.

Attack it and France fights back.

For us the crucial corner of our economy is the financial services
industry. Although parts of it exist all over the country it is
concentrated in that part of London known even internationally as “the
City”.

It is not just a few greedy bankers; we both have those but the City is
far more. It is indeed a vast banking agglomeration of more banks than
anywhere else in the world.

But that is the tip of the iceberg. Also in the City is the world’s
greatest concentration of insurance companies.

Add to that the brokers; traders in stocks and shares worldwide, second
only, and then maybe not, to Wall Street. But it is not just stocks.

The City is also home to the “exchanges” of gold and precious metals,
diamonds, base metals, commodities, futures, derivatives, coffee,
cocoa… the list goes on and on.

And it does not yet touch upon shipping, aviation, fuels, energy,
textiles… enough. Suffice to say the City is the biggest and busiest
marketplace in the world.

It makes the Paris Bourse look like a parish council set against the
United Nations and even dwarfs your Frankfurt many times.

That, surely, is the point of what happened in Brussels. The French
wish to wreck it and you seem to have agreed. Its contribution to the
British economy is not simply useful nor even merely valuable.

It is absolutely crucial. The financial services industry contributes
10 per cent of our Gross Domestic Product and 17.5 per cent of our
taxation revenue.

A direct and targeted attack on the City is an attack on my country.
But that, although devised in Paris, is what you have chosen to
support.

You seem to have decided that Britain is once again Germany’s enemy, a
situation that has not existed since 1945.

I deeply regret this but the choice was yours and entirely yours. The
Transaction Tax or Tobin Tax you reserve the right to impose would not
even generate money for Brussels.

It would simply lead to massive emigration from London to other havens.
Long ago it was necessary to live in a city to trade in it.

In the days when deals can flash across the world in a nanosecond all a
major brokerage needs is a suite of rooms, computers, telephones and
the talent of the young people barking offers and agreements down the
phone.

Such a suite of rooms could be in Berne, Thun, Zurich or even
Singapore. Under your Tobin Tax tens of thousands would leave London.

This would not help Brussels, it would simply help destroy the British
economy.

Your conference did not even save the euro. Permit me a few home truths
about it. The euro is a Franco-German construct.

It was a German chancellor (Kohl) who ordered a German banker (Karl
Otto Pohl) to get together with a French civil servant (Delors) on the
orders of a French president (Mitterrand) and create a common currency.

Which they did. IT was a flawed construct. Like a ship with a twisted
hull it might float in calm water but if it ever hit a force eight it
would probably founder.

Even then it might have worked for it was launched with a manual of
rules, the Growth And Stability Pact. If the terms of that book of
rules had been complied with the Good Ship Euro might have survived.

But compliance was entrusted bto the European Central Bank which
catastrophically failed to insist on that compliance.

Rules governing the growing of cucumbers are more zealously enforced.
This was a European Bank in a German city under a French president and
it failed in its primary, even its sole, duty.

This had everything to do with France and Germany and nothing whatever
to do with Britain.

Yet in Brussels last week the EU pack seemed intent only on venting its
spleen on the country that wisely refused to abolish its pound.

You did not even address yourselves to saving the euro but only to
seeking a way to ensure it might work in some future time.

But the euro will not be saved. It is crumbling now. And since you have
now turned against my country, from this side of the Channel, Madame
Chancellor, one can only say of the euro: YOU MADE IT, YOU MEND IT.
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 11:07
  #447 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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WSJ: Britain's Future Lies With America, Not Europe

Welcoming Britain back into the North Atlantic economic community would be a win-win for all involved.
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 11:27
  #448 (permalink)  
KAG
 
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Really KAG, Really ?
Yes, really, let's see:

I mentioned Eurozone crisis would mean more integration.
----We have seen more integration, and more to come.


I mentioned that when if it becomes serious, ECB will make an effort
---ECB has done what it never did before: 3 years lend. Italy borrow cost eased a bit immediately. ECB can do much more if really needed.


I mentioned that UK was getting isolated and would get hangover sooner or later.
---That's we saw in the news paper everywhere: Isolation, political confusion (ask Clegg about that), uncertainty if UK has to celebrate or worry about its decision, that's hangover, more to come with The City that is losing job even more since Cameron' decision. That's your country you should know.


I mentioned that this crisis would lower Euro and increase exportation, attacking Euro as a currency is a bit stupid because Eurozone is the first exporting economy in the world and its dying to see its money decreasing.
--- Euro at its lowest.





You what have you described? Titanic, Euro will explode, EU is the worst thing ones can imagine...
---It's still here, EU has even agreed to welcome a new member, some countries are asking to join Euro, and nobody left it like you predicted SO MUCH.


So you lovely and big emoticon Laughing Out Loud, keep it for the kids to play with, or give it to yourself, I won't have the use of it.


And now in your post you resort back to your fail safe position bigotry toward the UK.
You have insulted EU many times, I am not insulting UK, You posted much more about the Euro/EU than me about UK, speak about bigotry...



EU propaganda and refuse to discuss it and if pushed fall back to anti UK bigotry.
I have not seen any propaganda for Euro here, I have seen answers to attacks. However I have seen EU propaganda, accusing it of all kind of things, posting all kinds of pictures making fun of EU: it's called propaganda.
Me I am only answering to you, would have never brought up EU on my own.



I am not some xenophobic union jack waving brit, i've spent most of my life living overseas, my family background is non UK and to be honest i can't wait to get my ass out of it.
Alright, UK is not good suddently either? May I ask where would you go? Come to my airline!

Cheers.
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 11:30
  #449 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC interesting article and i kind of agree with it.

more from that page:
Dithering at the Top Turned EU Crisis to Global Threat
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 12:08
  #450 (permalink)  
 
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KAG, you have ignored the comment I made to you about the Santer comission resignation, after being exposed for incompetence and corruption. This happened after the sacking of Marta Andresson, the whistleblower.

Freedom to the people of the UK, death to the EU/EUSSR
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 12:17
  #451 (permalink)  
KAG
 
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Just read entirely the Loose Rivets' letter.
Seriously? What does he expect from M. Merkel after that? Is that some kind of a joke? Does he really think that saying Sarkozy is small will help? A bit pathetic.

In addition to the very low level, english and economic, he made a mistake, he should have sent it to Cameron, only him can choose to continue with EU or not, not M. Merkel!
Pure joke.
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 12:18
  #452 (permalink)  
 
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I mentioned Eurozone crisis would mean more integration.
----We have seen more integration, and more to come.

thats hardly a prediction is it KAG. stating what the aims of the EU actually is.


I mentioned that when if it becomes serious, ECB will make an effort
---ECB has done what it never did before: 3 years lend. Italy borrow cost eased a bit immediately. ECB can do much more if really needed.
well, that's hardly a prediction is it Nostradamus.. of course it's made an effort. it would be a moot central bank if it did not. And it hasn't been able to deal with the core problem of structural debt because Germany wont allow it.


I mentioned that UK was getting isolated and would get hangover sooner or later.
---That's we saw in the news paper everywhere: Isolation, political confusion (ask Clegg about that), uncertainty if UK has to celebrate or worry about its decision, that's hangover, more to come with The City that is losing job even more since Cameron' decision. That's your country you should know.
well no the UK is not getting isolated by anyone apart from sarkosy, BFD! several other countries also have the concerns as the UK and Merkel dropped sarkosy like a hot brick as Merkel needs the potential revenue from a financial transaction tax to help deal with the financial problems. it still doesn't deal with the structural debt problems though.

Ask clegg ? that fking jizzwad ? clegg's party got 7% of the vote in the general election and since then he's alienated the majority of his electorate. he's about as popular as a turd in hot tub.

I mentioned that this crisis would lower Euro and increase exportation, attacking Euro as a currency is a bit stupid because Eurozone is the first exporting economy in the world and its dying to see its money decreasing.
--- Euro at its lowest.
that is irrelevent. the euro as a currency prevents euro based economies to deal with their economic problems at a local level. your presentation there is a red herring. With the structural debt the EU is dealing with export figures are irrelevant as the debt increases faster than taxation revenue to pay it down. Like when companies look at other companies during take over, they don't just look at what its sales figures are, they also look at the structural debt the company has. You see this in the aviation industry regularly, airlines have high sales figures and good load factors, but there is not the yield to deal with the structural debt. it doesn't matter how long the sales figures will continue for, the debt remains a structural problem.

You what have you described? Titanic, Euro will explode, EU is the worst thing ones can imagine...
---It's still here, EU has even agreed to welcome a new member, some countries are asking to join Euro, and nobody left it like you predicted SO MUCH.
i haven't described anything, nor have i predicted anything. i have stated my view on how the situation stands. As i mentioned earlier in the thread:

what will happen ?

Now ? Who knows! And that is the problem for the markets; it seems there is no rationality to situation resolution. It's equally probable that the EU will announce a resolution package to economic problems is to wear a fake owl on your head and shout 'HOOT!' at passers by as any other resolution that may be presented.
So you lovely and big emoticon Laughing Out Loud, keep it for the kids to play with, or give it to yourself, I won't have the use of it.



You have insulted EU many times, I am not insulting UK, You posted much more about the Euro/EU than me about UK, speak about bigotry...
I have not once insulted the EU i have stated what it is and what its failings are. Or are you of that communist party mentality where any mention of errors are tantamount to heresy of the party and such utterances should be dealt with by hard labour in a salt mine ?

I thought you presented that the EU was predicated on freedom ? well that is not freedom, that mentality is something far more sinister.

As a great bear on these forums once said, to love something is to want to want to see it succeed and redress the failings. If you loved the EU you would want to see the failing addressed and dealt with not ostracise any mentioner of problems.

Historically this is why dictatorships fail in the end. because the leader is never told home truths, but told fiction due to fear of reprisals and therefore decisions are made on fallacy, not fact.

you previously mentioned about the requisitioning of personal property to pay down the debt.. again this is something sinister.

What you are presenting is a line of dictatorship and enslavement of the electorate of the EU for an ideology, yet you live and work 5,000 miles from the EU.


I have not seen any propaganda for Euro here, I have seen answers to attacks. However I have seen EU propaganda, accusing it of all kind of things, posting all kinds of pictures making fun of EU: it's called propaganda.
No it's called having an opinion and wanting to change this for the better, for the furtherment of all. see above point.

Me I am only answering to you, would have never brought up EU on my own.
I'm not forcing you post on this thread with a gun to your head am I ? KAG i really appreciate your posts here, i really do. It demonstrates to the readers the utter insanity of the believers of the cult of the EU.

Alright, UK is not good suddently either? May I ask where would you go? Come to my airline!
I never said it was. I've been more than vocal on here of my desire to get my ass out of this dying country, a country that has been wrecked and destroyed by the very ideologies that are being preached now in the EU. Look to the past and learn from the failings so as not do them again.

Its human to make mistakes, it's insanity to keep repeating them and expecting a different outcome each time.

where do i send my CV ?
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 12:20
  #453 (permalink)  
 
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Just read entirely the Loose Rivets' letter.
Seriously? What does he expect from M. Merkel after that? Is that some kind of a joke? Does he really think that saying Sarkozy is small will help? A bit pathetic.

In addition to the very low level, english and economic, he made a mistake, he should have sent it to Cameron, only him can choose to continue with EU or not, not M. Merkel!
Pure joke.
Another dissenter to be sent to the salt mines eh KAG for daring to voice an opinion on this democratic project of freedom ?

*click heels*
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 13:01
  #454 (permalink)  
KAG
 
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Sorry I won't (unless you insist) quote you again and comment on everything you said. It's interesting at times, but a bit too hamster wheel after a while.


where do i send my CV ?
To me. We need many captains this year. Sim check not easy though.


Air Pig from Liverpool: I would like to know more about this resignation, what have they done exactly? If anything wrong, sure they had to resign and even condemned I would add. Which year was it?

From Liverpool?
This month (december 2011) have you heard about the Liverpool biggest police corruption affair ever? It's happening right now.
Evidence destruction key to police corruption trial collapse review - Worldnews.com
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 13:39
  #455 (permalink)  
 
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The fall in the value of the Euro vs USD is currently negligible in terms of any trade shift.

Requires around 8.25% sustained drop to influence export volumes. Takes 12-18 months to show up in actual trade flows; and then only if the relative rox drop is maintained over a long enough period to actually influence long-term investment planning in the partner importer.

Will benefit none of the southern fringe countries as either (a) they don;t produce much that would benefit from only 8.25% shift (b) or they produce stuff that is generally price-insensitive.

Would however probably benefit the northern grouping, except that probably would result in improved profit margins rather than higher volumes.

Greece requires approx +50% plus devaluation of it's currency, which, of course won;t happen. This would shut down import volumes & boost exports, improve profit margins and maybe generate some import-substitution activities. Overall GDP would benefit although they still wouldn't be able to pay off debt.

Greece needs out of the Euro, the Euro needs Greece out of the Euro, but if it goes than the whole thing unravels doublequick with Ireland, Italy & Spain following in short order. Focus would be then on France, which would suddenly find financing debts pretty well imposible. France might be saved inside the Euro if everyone else upped the cash (which magically wouldn't be a problem).

The whole thing's a mess and will all end in tears.
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 15:22
  #456 (permalink)  
 
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Oh KAG,

The police case refers to South Wales, different country. Merseyside Police has one of the best records in crime prevention and thief taking in the UK, so get your facts right for a starter.

Santer, go and look for yourself, they were displaced by the parliament, one of the few times it stood up to do its job.

Are we trying to play the man not the ball with your posts, also why don't you move back to your beloved EU or are your pricipals not that strong?

Freedom to the people of the UK, death to the EU/EUSSR.
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 17:35
  #457 (permalink)  
 
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KAG
certain posters here represent a majority view in England. They show arrogance and egotism, misquoting opponents posts and then denouncing the misquotes. If argument fails they resort to insults, and never fail to play the man not the ball.
Their hatred of the idealism of the EU drips out of their contributions, and they are presently more politically dangerous than the equally deluded liberal huggy fluffies.
Here in Wales the wish to be free from England and most of the English is growing stronger. A breakup of the UK with Wales & Scotland joining the newly revived Euro zone is now openly debated in WAG and around the country.
By the way; we are not posting here too much because the general tone created by the egotists is of a public brawl, rather than a civilised debate.
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 19:20
  #458 (permalink)  
 
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Vee-tail 1,

You want independence, have a referendum! Put it to a vote of the people, as William Hauge said about the Scotish Parliament it's not just for Christmas but for life. I await with interest the calling of a referendum for Scotish independence and how many will vote for it, I suspect many will take a pragmatic view and remain within the UK. Remember Blair and Dewer, tried to fix the Scotish Parliament so that one party would not ave a majority, look what has happened the SNP are in charge with a majority.

You have benefitted from EU money, but what you got in return was only a small proportion of what the UK as a whole paid into that corrupt edifice called the EU.

I welcome the calling of a UK referendum on EU membership, hopefully but I'm not holding my breath as politicians are too afraid to let the people have a genuine choice. Look what happened over AV voting, the Lib Dems in the shape of Huhne did not accept the result, too used to the ways of the EU, if the people don't get the right answer they have keep voting until the correct answer is produced. For a referendum we do need electoral reform in that voters have to give positive identification when they vote, and also the for and against cases have to be fairly and honestly without spin.

Arrogance and egotism, no, just a love of my Country and I do not want it subsumed into a superstate

Freedom to the people of the UK, death to the EU/EUSSR.
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 19:24
  #459 (permalink)  
 
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that's brilliant [sic] vee tail. no argument or discussion just post insults at anyone who disagrees with your view.

as i posted in response to your 'immense intellect' previously displayed on thus thread (19th Dec)

in one line you manange to negate the potential of any possibility of adult discussion.



if you want to have an informed discussion about a situation which has been affecting not only country, but the region in recent history and will have far reaching implications for many years, no decades, then please, find an adult, or someone who hasn't a partial lobotomy, to assist you with posting your opinions.

if you want to resort to childish name calling you can take your 'my dad is bigger than your dad ner ner ner nerrr ner!' infantalism back to the school yard.
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 19:59
  #460 (permalink)  
 
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A good example for KAG ... one reasoned response making valid points ...thanks air pig.
As for the other ... if a hook has shark bait , not surprising if sharks bite it.
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