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Cuba

Old 15th Jul 2014, 05:18
  #261 (permalink)  
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Maybe you're small enough to pull it off. Possibly, in the remoteness and closed nature of New Zealand's culture, and that government on such a small scale can control Socialism's excesses and inefficiencies, it just might work.

Let's revisit your situation in ten years, shall we?
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 05:22
  #262 (permalink)  
 
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Ten years? Like I said, we have been a socialist country for about 120 years already what is another ten years going to show?
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 05:54
  #263 (permalink)  
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We'll see, won't we.

And New Zealand hasn't always been socialist.
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 05:59
  #264 (permalink)  
 
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Universal superannuation, government provided national health service, free education, unemployment benefit, sickness benefit, family benefit, state provided housing, state subsidised public transport, regulated maximum working hours, and so on. Sounds like a socialist paradise to me and most of those things are getting on for a hundred years old in NZ.
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 06:08
  #265 (permalink)  
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Universal superannuation
Universal? Where's my check. Can I crash your borders?
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 06:15
  #266 (permalink)  
 
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Probably not, we do have quite high standards.

Try this page https://visaoptions.immigration.govt...nPersonal.aspx
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 06:29
  #267 (permalink)  
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So you're elite Socialists, eh?
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 06:50
  #268 (permalink)  
 
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Extremely elite.
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 09:39
  #269 (permalink)  
 
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Ben there - what happens if you lose your job? If you or a family member develops a serious illness and requires hospitalisation they will be treated but who will pay? The answer is those patients who have the ability to pay subsidise those who cannot, resulting resulting in the inflated bills that US citizens receive for medical treatment. The US health care system being profit driven has to be financed somehow. The majority of citizens may be covered by insurance - but that is not unlimited,the insurance company will control the treatment.More than 30% of US citizens have no health insurance at all - medical costs are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the USA.For a wealthy country to be in this position is shameful - Google 'Commonwealth Fund' and read the report on health care systems in the developed world. This organisation is an American group set up in 1918 to promote better health care in the USA.I have lived and worked in the USA so have experienced your system - 15 years ago $100 for a doctor to write a prescription for an inhaler cartridge for my young son - I know which system I prefer,have you lived with any kind of socialised medicine?
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 09:44
  #270 (permalink)  
 
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Ben There - I note your comment on socialist inefficiency with amusement - your efficient capitalist USA is in debt to the tune of trillions to the socialist state of China.
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 11:35
  #271 (permalink)  
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Sooooooooo....

Anyone else been to Cuba recently? Since the start of this thread in Oct 2011 there seems to have been a lot discussed (I just caught up), but very little exchange of experiences, advice, or memories from visiting Cuba.

Trade sanctions, international tourist perceptions, Iraq, Iran, New Zealand, Sweden, China, North Korea, South Korea, South Africa, US healthcare, capitalism, and socialism are all fascinating subjects (well some of them are) but certainly not what I expected when I opened this thread.

Still, that is both the beauty and ugliness of Jetblast all in one!

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Old 15th Jul 2014, 15:40
  #272 (permalink)  
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I would argue that for the past 20 years China has been the most successfully capitalist country in the world.

I agree the US debt and solvency are shocking, but that is more due to increased social spending and entitlements. Reagan's re-adherence to capitalist dogma in the 80s led to a period of extended prosperity that even zeroed out the US budget deficit for a brief time, despite the cost of winning the Cold War. Alas, our electorate failed to learn the lesson and returned us to profligacy.

De facto, no one in the US is uninsured. If you have nothing you go to the hospital, usually the emergency room, and get all the treatment you require. If you have something and are uninsured, you must either hide or spend it and when you have done that, you, too, will receive your healthcare gratis.

No one needs to go untreated in the US, and no one gets refused treatment when they show up at the emergency room without coverage and destitute.

As Obamacare unfolds, the damage so far has been done mostly to lower-middle class wage earners and hourly employees. They have seen their work hours reduced, their employee health care plans eliminated, and have been thrown onto the state exchanges where their premiums have been dramatically escalated for reduced coverage. Nancy Pelosi tells them that now they only have to work 29 hours a week, they have much more time to pursue the joys of life.

My only experience with nationalized health care is indirect. My father-in-law in Australia needs a knee replacement and he is functionally crippled. At 78, the Australian health care system will not pay for it. I've offered to help him go to Hong Kong to get it done, even though he is not poor, but he refuses on principle and keeps applying for approval. Such is 'free' health care.
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 16:35
  #273 (permalink)  

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Such is 'free' health care
"There is no such thing as a free lunch."

That is something the proponents of Socialism either refuse to acknowledge or they deny that simply fact.
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 16:36
  #274 (permalink)  
Dushan
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Originally Posted by John Hill View Post
, free education,
How can it possibly be free? Don't the teachers get paid? Doesn't it cost real money to build schools and maintain them?

This it the infuriating part about socialists. They really think that it is "free". Nothing in this world is free. You may be providing something to someone at no cost to him, but it sure as hell ain't free. Someone has to pay for it and it is always the hard working income earners who pay taxes. How is that fair?

Last edited by Dushan; 15th Jul 2014 at 16:46.
 
Old 15th Jul 2014, 16:41
  #275 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by bcgallacher View Post
The US health care system being profit driven has to be financed somehow.
Profit or not profit, every health care system has to be financed somehow. I would much rather finance a profit driven system that delivers the service based on my ability to pay, than a system where everyone is treaded equally bad under the pretence of social equality.
 
Old 15th Jul 2014, 16:49
  #276 (permalink)  
Dushan
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Originally Posted by John Hill View Post

... basic level 'state housing', NZ 1947.
What is the point? Are you proud of the fact that people without ability to pay for their own housing are housed in detached homes owned by the state. How about a picture of privately owned homes? They better be a helluva better than these. If not the people who pay for these should be very pissed off.
 
Old 15th Jul 2014, 16:54
  #277 (permalink)  
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And are those little white things in the back yard outhouses?
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 16:56
  #278 (permalink)  
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Nah, they are government mandated compost sheds.
 
Old 15th Jul 2014, 16:58
  #279 (permalink)  
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And I don't see any cars in driveways. I guess permits to buy cars will be issued next year.
 
Old 15th Jul 2014, 17:39
  #280 (permalink)  

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And I don't see any cars in driveways.
That's because there are no driveways.
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