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Uk Education!

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Uk Education!

Old 1st Jul 2011, 10:02
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I believe the essence of clear communication is accuracy, meaning avoidance of ambiguity and use of the correct words to transmit the intended meaning.

So the OP quote fails to meet this criterion, using the wrong words "collage" for "college", "no" for "know", and "waist" for "waste", in only two lines!

Texting can achieve it very economically using minimal keystrokes, and so can long established systems like Pitman shorthand. The great engineer I.K.Brunel even developed his own private system for recording notes of meetings.

Accuracy of punctuation and correct use of upper/lower case are perhaps less important, and don't affect clarity of meaning quite so much. Though the book "Eats Shoots and Leaves" by Lynne Truss does illustrate very well how the total absence of punctuation can cause ambiguity ...
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 10:20
  #22 (permalink)  

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So, what is more important, the message or the presentation?
So it matters not that those of us taught properly and who worked hard to learn have to struggle to make sense of what is written by the stupid and/or illiterate?

Text without capitals, paragraphs, correct grammar, correct spelling and which has obviously not even be re-read by the writer makes hard work for the reader.

The rules and conventions weren't written just to make life difficult, they do have a purpose.

Text speak is grotesque in that it is ugly, variable to the nth degree and quite hideous to read.
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 10:52
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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capital letters are as important as the punctuation marks.

Think about the change of meaning if the upper case letters are changed to lower case in the following example.

the boy ran outside to help his Uncle Jack off the donkey

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Old 1st Jul 2011, 11:06
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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So it matters not that those of us taught properly and who worked hard to learn have to struggle to make sense of what is written by the stupid and/or illiterate?
Just be grateful that you had that advantage, and are able to distinguish the approximate meaning from the dross, perhaps? A good basic education is almost beyond price nowadays, unfortunately many have been poorly taught by teachers who were themselves poorly taught. A legacy of the trendy theorising over the perceived non-importance of grammar and punctuation in education, over recent decades. Illiteracy and semi-literacy have become passed on by a degraded education system.

Also, if something is badly written by a person that you deem stupid, that is hardly their fault. The bell curve of intelligence has an extreme left-hand area too. Some people find it difficult or even impossible to exercise the clarity of thought and self-confidence based on acquired knowledge, to express themselves clearly in writing. That is their sad misfortune.
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 11:51
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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"Accuracy of punctuation and correct use of upper/lower case are perhaps less important, and don't affect clarity of meaning quite so much. Though the book "Eats Shoots and Leaves" by Lynne Truss does illustrate very well how the total absence of punctuation can cause ambiguity ... "

Exactly. I once saw a perfect example of this. It was in the form of a letter written from a woman to a man, stating how much she loved him. By changing the punctuation and the case of certain words, but leaving the words in exactly the same order, the letter changed meaning to how much she hated the man.
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 12:48
  #26 (permalink)  
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This ~ just in from the London Evening Standard.

(In a blunt retort to Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith, the head of one of the country's biggest business groups said bosses often had no choice but to turn to foreign workers because too few Britons were qualified.

David Frost, the director general of the British Chambers of Commerce, said: "They expect young people to come forward to them who are able to read, write and communicate and have a good wo.....ethic)

and for added comfort...

(Other employers said it was down to the Government to improve the standard of school-leavers and graduates rather than expect struggling businesses to bring them up to scratch.
Mr Frost praised workers from countries like Poland: "They are skilled, they speak good English and, more importantly, they want to wo....)

I have removed some allusions, or should that be illusions, to the word work since this thread is about UK education. One national failing per thread seems sufficient.
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 13:01
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Bring back the lash and the birch,avoidance of pain is the best incentive for instilling knowledge.
Worked for us.
Schoolboys should be thrashed soundly at least once a week

Last edited by tony draper; 1st Jul 2011 at 13:50.
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 15:19
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Have always subscribed to the thrash 'em element of Education.
Too much of this nambypamby attitude around nowadays.
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 15:31
  #29 (permalink)  
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If you look at the contents of many class rooms you might feel inclined to agree that education is not a human right. What it should be, in the course of the natural selection of superiors, is a privilege which only the privileged deserve.
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 15:38
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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I just do not know where to begin with such a crass, backwards & self regarding load of old toss that the previous poster asserts as an education policy.

Back down the mines with you all.
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 15:39
  #31 (permalink)  
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It is my understanding that, there are ladies who will provide this nostalgic area of education for those who wish to reminisce. Private sector of course....

" What it should be, in the course of the natural selection of superiors, is a privilege which only the privileged deserve"

Do you write the policy for Messrs. Cameron, Gove and Osborne then....or are you simply devoid of any real perception as to the fact this is now 2011...not 1811 / 1911............,,,,not forgetting that quite a few of the so called "priviliged" are, in essence, as thick as pig manure and twice as dense. Or do you class yourself as one of the "privileged" at all. ?
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 16:02
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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you might feel inclined to agree that education is not a human right. What it should be, in the course of the natural selection of superiors, is a privilege which only the privileged deserve
when i lived in certain African country, while driving i would see groups of school children carrying their books to and from school, but while driving across scrub could not see, literally for miles any building let alone a school.

yet these children would for miles and miles, and today in such dire economic problems where the teachers are not getting paid by the state, the parents and the children themselves scrape together anything they can find to have some form of education.

yet here, it's a problem to get get children to behave in class so that they may have an education.

an education, provided for by the state is a privilege and it is one that we barely recognise as such.
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 16:04
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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I was, (and still am) under-privileged. My father cycled from South London to Kingsbury, in North London, to get work. He had very little time and energy when he arrived home.
However, between them my mother and father managed to get me in to the local state primary school. Nowadays it would appear that to have been an achievement for the under-privileged, like me. They did not have middle class pointed elbows.......
Between the school, my parents and me we found a way to use the education system so I came out of it with opportunities.

Now, if the trots and Pinkoes that run Eddication in the UK wish to deprive other folk of a decent eddication, fine, but I will (have) used my unemployed, (unemployable?) middle class pointy elbows to do for my children as well as I can.
That's not privilege.

At least I'm honest about it. Diane Abbott, (better known as "Don't do as I do, do as I say") - allows a corrupt London State Education system to become worse, by avoiding it. Ditto Bliar.
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 16:17
  #34 (permalink)  
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Policy?
That would be the government and the opposition? Cameron, Clegg, Osborne, Alexander, Cable, Milliband/MIT, Balls/Harvard. A nasty bunch some would say and mostly pretty privileged. One at least that went to Cambridge even came from a Grammar School. But if you look around the state experiment that's been British education since the end of the war, it's been a dismal failure. Materiel tells and it isn't the aristos who put politics into education and suborned the potential of the young to some agenda dreamt up as in some green dream over a formica table on a rainy Battersea afternoon. It's a shame that in much of Britain today you are abused if you can articulate. Thick as pig manure and twice as dense? That's the way to be thought of these days, just like John Prescott.
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 16:29
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Policy?
That would be the government and the opposition? Cameron, Clegg, Osborne, Alexander, Cable, Milliband/MIT, Balls/Harvard. A nasty bunch some would say and mostly pretty privileged. One at least that went to Cambridge even came from a Grammar School.
previously posted here: http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/4112...ml#post6451784

[...] it's just PR based on left wing (Labour) hypocrisy, considering...

Ed Mliband, Labour Leader - Oxford
(dep Leader / Intl. Develp.) Harriet Harman - Private (Aunt is a countess and cousins are entitled)
(national disgrace) the dis-Honourable tony blair (Private and while publicly decrying elitism by way of non state education, sent his progeny private)
Socialist mouthpiece Dianne Abbot - Private & Cambridge sent her progeny private, which she herself described as "indefensible" and "intellectually incoherent".
Shadow Chancellor) tubthumper Ed Balls - Private & Oxford
(Home & Women/Equality) Yvette Cooper - Oxford
(Chief Whip) Rosie Winterton - Private
(Education) Andy Burnham - Cambridge
(Health) John Healey - Cambridge
(Energy/Climate) - Meg Hillier - Private & Oxford
(Shadow Leader of the House) Hilary Benn - Private
(Transport) Maria Eagle - Oxford
(Environment, Food & Rural) Mary Creagh - Oxford
(Sec to Treasury) Angela Eagle - Oxford
(NI) Shaun Woodward - Private
(Culture Media Sport) Ivan Lewis - Private
(cabinet & Olympics) Tessa Jowel - Private
(chair) Tony Lloyd - Private
(attny Gen) Patricia Scotland - Private

[...]
NB: Balls/Harvard and Millibroon/MIT not included
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 16:42
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Do you? I mean look at the contents of classrooms? Anyone can spout on a forum, but what's your evidence?

At the school where I'm a governor, 75% of pupils get Maths at a to c. Similar, but not quite as good for English. Not too shabby. At the school where I'm the Head, 95% get a level 4 or better at age 11. Broadly, those who can, do, to pinch a line.

It ain't all crap, but bad news rides a fast horse, as they say.

CG
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 17:47
  #37 (permalink)  
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One might be excused perhaps, reading across the press, for believing that it's not so much academic grades of any worth that are being achieved these days so much as standards being lowered in an exercise of mass produced massage.
No indeed, the sort of thing that might indicate to the forum flanneler that British education is very sick at the grass roots is when David Frost, the director general of the British Chambers of Commerce says of British bosses to Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith that, 'they expect young people to come forward to them who are able to read, write and communicate and have a good work ethic and too often that's not the case.' That's his explanation as to why British bosses have no choice but to turn to foreign workers. Of course the statement might be a gross, distorted and inaccurate frivolity but Mr Frost is a man of some influence in British business and a Loriner.
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 20:17
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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This problem is not new and it's perpetuated and exacerbated by each succeeding generation.. Back in the mid-80s I was managing an office in the home counties and needed a new receptionist/secretary.. I made each applicant type a letter from an audio dictating machine and each one failed dismally... As I had to take a short break I left further interviews to the assistant manager... I was amazed when after just two days she called to say she'd found someone. The girl started on my first day back and I gave a her a taped dictated letter to that needed typing and had to be at a solicitors office the following morning... she returned it to me just a few minutes before the last post was due to leave... Out of the 47 lines of typing just two of the lines had two mistakes ..the other 45 lines had three or more.. it was pathetic.. mostly spelt phonetically.. When I asked the assistant manager how it was she'd got though the typing test she told me she was too busy and had let her simply copy a letter from the files...
We can't simply blame the teachers.. mostly they're dedicated people who view their work as a vocation.. much of the problem lies with the parents who simply just don't emphasise the importance of achievement during the school years.. Other cultures, Indian, the Jewish community do strive to ensure their children remain focused on academic work and we see the result every day...
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 21:43
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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I think a significant part of that particular problem arises because, by and large, children don't read books any more.

To make matters worse, they tend to read what their equally ignorant peers have written in the likes of, er, internet forums.
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Old 1st Jul 2011, 22:45
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Bring back the lash and the birch,avoidance of pain is the best incentive for instilling knowledge.
I think there should have been a semi-colon between 'birch' and 'avoidance' there, Drapes.

Or do I mean a colon?

I allus gets they two mixed up I does
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