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USA Politics - Hamster Wheel

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USA Politics - Hamster Wheel

Old 29th Aug 2013, 01:57
  #15901 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 55
Posts: 664
Hopefully only ever fired for practice, but available for any 'innocent' hoodies who may wish to see her Skittles...
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 02:11
  #15902 (permalink)  
 
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Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
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I was never an expert shot with a Pistol / Revolver.

Would always get my 20 - 24 out of 25 in the Chest area
but was never an all 10 ring guy.

So yes, some range time wouldn't do me any harm.


"'innocent' hoodies"

Does one exist ?

Last edited by 500N; 29th Aug 2013 at 02:12.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 02:42
  #15903 (permalink)  
 
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I had to laugh at this

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Old 29th Aug 2013, 03:32
  #15904 (permalink)  
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
 
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No safer, cleaner, nicer big city than Salt Lake. Anywhere.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 04:27
  #15905 (permalink)  
 
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Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
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You drinking to excess again are you Ben?
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 04:43
  #15906 (permalink)  
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
 
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Actually I do have a scotch at hand, but remain functional, as I practice not to imbibe to excess.

I do have a very high opinion of Salt Lake City, and, as I spend on average a couple of nights there every month, I contend my opinion is well informed.

I would like to address and respond to your issue, my esteemed colleague. What is it?
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 04:59
  #15907 (permalink)  
 
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I spent way too many nights in SLC.....to hold the same high regard for the place. Having participated in the twice daily Mormon Demolition Derby there on far too many occasions.....my jangled nerves and traumatic memories caused by said Derby experiences just do not allow for warm fuzzy regards for the place and its inhabitants who appeared to be suicidal if not down right homicidal upon getting behind the steering wheels of their cars.

Atlanta's Watermelon 500's paled to insignificance compared to their fellows out in SLC.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 05:06
  #15908 (permalink)  
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: USA
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Now that you mention it, I've never had to drive there. The limo picks me up at the airport and takes me to the downtown hotel.

Thus, given my time there, not having to drive, I find the city, its people, its cleanliness, its fine restaurants, all that and more - to be delightful. That's why I bid to go there.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 18:14
  #15909 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 586
I drive through the SLC area, top to bottom (or reverse) 3-4 times a year. 85 miles of absolute unpredictable terror. I'm not sure if it's the minivans, the billboards, or the orange cones.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 21:13
  #15910 (permalink)  
 
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If you enjoy good looking Blue Eyed Blondes who rumble but don't drink....SLC can be a very pleasant place I guess.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 22:52
  #15911 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Arizona
Age: 51
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Airborne:

I couldn't agree more.... But a central government has no place in the lunchbox of my kid or anyone else's... They actually have no place in education, period. The education of children belongs on the local level where local values and needs are understood.
How is local control of education any better than national? Just what local values and needs are more important than well educated folks who can compete in the new global reality? Or is it better to have a bunch of ignorant hicks blundering mystified thru the world for the rest of their lives when they find that local values and needs ain't all she wrote.

- Peter.

Last edited by pj67coll; 29th Aug 2013 at 22:52.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 23:16
  #15912 (permalink)  
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
 
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The key is, that localities compete. They know their culture firsthand, and know what they want taught. As they compete, they tend to emulate the other localities who show themselves to be successful.

On a larger scale, that was the whole idea behind the Constitution's federalism. Let each state try out and implement new ideas. If they work, other states will follow. If they fail, it only affects one state.

The problem today with Washington's encroachment is that the federal ideas since the 1960's tend toward self-destruction. We, the people, don't like that.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 00:57
  #15913 (permalink)  
 
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BenThere:

The key is, that localities compete. They know their culture firsthand, and know what they want taught. As they compete, they tend to emulate the other localities who show themselves to be successful
That sounds fine in theory. Doesn't work in practice. If it did Americans would be vastly better educated than they are.

- Peter.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 01:27
  #15914 (permalink)  
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
 
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pj,

Your argument is shallow. Americans are quite well educated when they are lucky enough to have access to elite school districts, private schools and home education.

The masses, to which I think you are referring, are trapped in school systems where competition to excel has been stifled by Democrat policy initiatives, put in place and failed, augmented by teacher union jobsworth mentality, and has led to the results in many quarters that you point out in so many words.

The best educated Americans remain, for now, the best educated in the world, thank you very much.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 02:17
  #15915 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Detroit MI
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Peter:

How is local control of education any better than national? Just what local values and needs are more important than well educated folks who can compete in the new global reality? Or is it better to have a bunch of ignorant hicks blundering mystified thru the world for the rest of their lives when they find that local values and needs ain't all she wrote.
I'm sorry to say this but your question is, well, so naive as to almost not warrant a response. But I'll try.

The USA is a vast country with every climate/environment from arctic to tropical and desert to rain forest, (don't argue the latter, Oregon has the only sub-tropical rain forest in the world IIRC). It is also totally capable of being self sustaining. In order to do that different people need to learn different things. The rural areas where the corn is grown for the nation have little need to learn art and music, they need to learn agriculture and biology. The big city with it's commerce has little need of agricultural knowledge, but it does need maths and economics.

This isn't to say that some "cross training" doesn't help everyone but regions have needs and to have a central educational system trying to teach the same thing to all only makes idiots of all. It also doesn't preclude the teaching of the basics, you know Reading, Riting and Rithmatic - the 3 R's our wonderful centralized education system wants to teach...

This also doesn't stop people from leaving their home to go to college where they will be best educated in the field they desire... Just like happens today... Want a quality education in the Veterinary Sciences? Then Michigan State is a place to go - Boston College probably isn't.

There's "horses for courses" and what a single education system in a country of more than 300 million does is assume that we are all the same... We aren't... Some are dumb, some are strong, some are quick and some are slow... The socialist impression that we all start from an equal footing is foolish as we all learned on our first day in school.

Hope that helps...

I'm off camping now... During this time my six year old will learn about several things in nature, a little hunting and tracking, possibly some meteorology, some culinary science and maybe some basic "fun"...

In the end, the education of our children is the responsibility of the parents not some worthless twit 400 miles away who only cares about his bank account. There isn't one person in Washington that cares about nor can prepare my daughter for life better then my wife and I and if you don't believe that then you just announced to the world that you are incompetent as a parent and any children you may have should be taken into government care. Sad eh?
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 03:14
  #15916 (permalink)  
 
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North Carolina's School Budget includes about 10% Federal Money.....and all the strings that come attached to that money....with the Feds mandating all sorts of silly assed requirements.

Wake County cut their budget by 10% though cost efficiency....did without out that Federal Money....cut all those strings....and saw an immediate improvement in every metric measured.

Bureaucracy is what kills quality in education.

Had we been successful in electing the architect of that strategy to the State Superintendent of Public Education last time.....we would be seeing that happen on the State level and not just at the one County.

Liberal Democrat control of Education in my State is the single most serious handicap to progress we have in turning our School System around.

Granted Bush's "No Child Left Behind Act" might as well have been a Liberal Democrat Program with the negative effect it has had on public education in this country.

As long as the Public Schools have a monopoly on education and the Politicians refuse to allow Vouchers and other measures that allow Parents to choose the schools of their choice for their children's education.....there is never going to be a way to force State Run schools to change for the better. If Principals, Teachers, and Counselors found themselves competing for Students and being unemployed if they failed.....what an amazing change we would see in their performance.

The other thing Wake County did in 29 failing Schools was firing every single staff member....right down to the Custodian even.....and then re-hiring on a One Year Renewable Contract with no promise of Renewal. They added Bonuses for Staff that got re-hired after the first year and for each year they got re-hired....and those 29 schools are the highest rated in the System now.

You diss American education....but you fail to acknowledge the reasons for that. Perhaps your own education is lacking or you would be conversant with the causes for the varying quality of education in this country.

Last edited by SASless; 30th Aug 2013 at 03:23.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 18:11
  #15917 (permalink)  
 
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BenThere wrote:

On a larger scale, that was the whole idea behind the Constitution's federalism. Let each state try out and implement new ideas. If they work, other states will follow. If they fail, it only affects one state.
With all due respect, sir, your definition of Constitutional federalism is a bit flawed.

The Federalist papers, supported by the Federalist Party at the time of the writing of our Constitution, envisioned a very strong central government with the United States being subservient to that central government. (Sort of like what has become of our Republic today.) The anti-Federalists, of which the main spokesman was Thomas Jefferson, did not at all want federalism but more power at the State level. Thus, they were known as anti-Federalists.

The leading Federalists of the day - again, more power to the central government - were George Washington (with all due respect to that great man) and Alexander Hamilton. John Adams became the 2nd President of the United States representing the Federalist Party. (The one and only time the Federalists held the highest office.)

Thomas Jefferson, the first true Republican of this nation, had this to say to a fellow Republican:

Monticello Dec. 15. 10.

Dear Sir

Our last post brought me your friendly letter of Nov. 27. I learn with pleasure that republican principles are predominant in your state, because I conscientiously believe that governments founded in them are most friendly to the happiness of the people at large; and especially of a people so capable of self government as ours. I have been ever opposed to the party, so falsely called federalists, because I believe them desirous of introducing, into our government, authorities hereditary or otherwise independant [sic] of the national will. these always consume the public contributions and oppress the people with labour & poverty. no one was more sensible than myself, while Govr. Fenner was in the Senate, of the soundness of his political principles, & rectitude of his conduct. among those of my fellow laborers, of whom I had a distinguished opinion, he was one: and I have no doubt those among whom he lives and who have already given him so many proofs of their unequivocal confidence in him, will continue so to do. it would be impertinent in me, a stranger to them, to tell them what they all see daily. my object too at present is peace and tranquility, neither doing nor saying any thing to be quoted, or to make me the subject of newspaper disquisitions. I read one or two newspapers a week, but with reluctance give even that time from Tacitus & Horace, & so much other more agreeable reading. indeed I give more time to exercise of the body than of the mind, believing it wholesome to both. I enjoy, in recollection, my antient [sic] friendships, & suffer no new circumstances to mix alloy with them. I do not take the trouble of forming opinions on what is passing among them; because I have such entire confidence in their integrity & wisdom, as to be satisfied all is going right, & that every one is doing his best in the station confided to him. under these impressions accept sincere assurances of my continued esteem & respect for yourself personally, & my best wishes for your health & happiness.

Th: Jefferson


In essence, Federalism gives more power to the central government (the Feds) and takes power away from the individual States. (Like today.) Republicanism - in its true form and as founded by Thomas Jefferson - seeks less power in the Federal government with the States making those decisions vital to the needs and wants of those States' people.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 21:21
  #15918 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
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BemThere.

The masses, to which I think you are referring, are trapped in school systems where competition to excel has been stifled by Democrat policy initiatives, put in place and failed, augmented by teacher union jobsworth mentality, and has led to the results in many quarters that you point out in so many words.
You are correct in that the outliers are irrelevant, both at the very top and the very bottom. The well being of a country is determined by the vast majority in the middle. And the vast majority of Americans in the middle are not by any means the best educated on earth.

I happen to know a little about foreign education as I was educated in South Africa, in a private school patterned on the English public school system. Have relatives and friends living in New Zealand, Australia, England and Holland. By and large these folks are better educated than Americans and will remain so as long as the US refuses to confront reality.

The best educated Americans remain, for now, the best educated in the world, thank you very much.
You can believe that if you want. Doesn't make it so. And even if it were true as I explained the best educated are not the issue. It is the vast majority of the citizenry that matters. Especially in a democracy.

- Peter.

Last edited by pj67coll; 30th Aug 2013 at 21:21.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 21:35
  #15919 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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BenThere

" The best educated Americans remain, for now, the best educated in the world, thank you very much."

On what basis do you say that ?
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 21:44
  #15920 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Airborne:

It is also totally capable of being self sustaining.
Autarky has always been a dream and always will be. It is a nonsense idea to believe that a country can be self sustaining given the interconnectedness of modern civilization.

The rural areas where the corn is grown for the nation have little need to learn art and music, they need to learn agriculture and biology.
They'd better be learning a damm site more than agriculture and biology or they will remain precisely the kind of ignorant hicks to whom I was referring. And I say that with many relatives on my wife's side who are farmers (quite good ones too) back in Nebraska. Farmers in Western Kansas might want to start paying a lot more attention to geology and climatology right now in fact. If they want to have any farms left to pass on to their descendents.

As long as Americans keep their heads buried in the sand and think that the rest of the world doesn't impact them this country will continue to fall behind. Until fairly recently the US was strong enough that global events impinged on it but sparingly. That is no longer the case.

You can teach your kid the homespun arts and crafts, and that's just fine, and worthwhile. But when the time comes for your kids to compete with the Chinese, Germans, Indians, etc for jobs, they will continue to fall increasingly behind as long as you don't educate them to the level of those countries or preferably higher.

And when the ignorant electorate continue returning clowns to the WhiteHouse in the next few elections who have not the slightest idea what to do on the global stage the country will be in an even worse state than it is now.

Your point about democrat control of education and unions has some validity but it is only one part of the malaise that effects education in this country. Might be different in your area but around here I see precious few people home schooling their kids apart from religious nutjobs who want to push their superstitions on them.

And that's largely the same for charter schools in fact.

- Peter.

Last edited by pj67coll; 30th Aug 2013 at 21:44.
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