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USA Politics - Hamster Wheel

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USA Politics - Hamster Wheel

Old 3rd Jan 2013, 20:17
  #12221 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
Age: 67
Posts: 3,332
Using that useful definition, add

Food Nut: Private food owner
Car Nut: Private car owner
Money Nut: Private bank account holder
Travel Nut: Passport holder

Food nuts, under ObammyCare, is Temp's next target. Anyone who eats in a dangerous manner, decided on by him, will be registered, outlawed and sent to reeducation camp.

GF
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 20:22
  #12222 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 197
LF

Well, I would hope weapon security has improved, because motors, mortar rounds, M60s with cans of belted amo, and the good old Mattel rifle was found hidden in the Mojave desert some years after I got out. But why should I take your word for it? Just because you call yourself knowledgeable?

As for Gun-Nut, there are guns shop businesses labeled Gun-Nuts and Gun-Runners, ect ect., an,d further more you know it, so you have a big fail with the false equivalent argument, Mr. Gun Nut.
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 20:23
  #12223 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
Age: 67
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CoF

Shame on you for presenting a thoughtful argument. Don't you know Temp's police will protect those vulnerable to attack. Surely, you know that restraining orders require the police to deny gun permits or require turning in weapons by permit holders. Last year, near here, a NYS corrections officer, under a restraint order, shot and killed a police officer, his girl "friend", then committed suicide. Government really protected her.

I'll stop calling you Shirley, too. Let's prevent aviation here.

GF
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 20:25
  #12224 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
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GF

No mass gun murder if there are no guns.

We can work on the mass eating murders in committee.
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 20:28
  #12225 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
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C of F

We will get them. Wait and see. Your arguments are moot because you have little need, if ever, to defend yourself with a firearm.
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 20:37
  #12226 (permalink)  

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From another website.

Quote:
Our real problem is denial. From Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
By Doug Wyllie


"How many kids have been killed by school fire in all of North America in the past 50 years? Kids killed... school fire... North America... 50 years... How many? Zero. That's right. Not one single kid has been killed by school fire anywhere in North America in the past half a century. Now, how many kids have been killed by school violence?"


So began an extraordinary daylong seminar presented by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, a Pulitzer Prize nominated author, West Point psychology professor, and without a doubt the world's foremost expert on human aggression and violence. The event, hosted by the California Peace Officers Association, was held in the auditorium of a very large community church about 30 miles from San Francisco, and was attended by more than 250 police officers from around the region.


Grossman's talk spanned myriad topics of vital importance to law
enforcement, such as the use of autogenic breathing, surviving gunshot wounds, dealing with survivor guilt following a gun battle, and others. But violence among and against children was how the day began, and so I'll focus on that issue here.


"In 1999," Grossman said, "school violence claimed what at the time was an all time record number of kids' lives. In that year there were 35 dead and a quarter of a million serious injuries due to violence in the school. How many killed by fire that year? Zero. But we hear people say, 'That's the year Columbine happened, that's an anomaly.' Well, in 2004 we had a new all time record - 48 dead in the schools from violence. How many killed by fire that year? Zero. Let's assign some grades. Put your teacher hat on and give out some grades. What kind of grade do you give the firefighter for keeping kids safe? An 'A,' right? Reluctantly, reluctantly, the cops give the firefighters an 'A,' right? Danged firefighters, they sleep 'till they're hungry and eat 'till they're tired. What grade do we get for keeping the kids safe from violence? Come on, what's our grade? Needs improvement, right?"


Johnny Firefighter, A+ Student


"Why can't we be like little Johnny Firefighter?" Grossman asked as he prowled the stage. "He's our A+ student!"


He paused, briefly, and answered with a voice that blew through the hall like thunder, "Denial, denial, denial!"


Grossman commanded, "Look up at the ceiling! See all those sprinklers up there? They're hard to spot - they're painted black - but they're there. While you're looking, look at the material the ceiling is made of. You know that that stuff was selected because it's fire-retardant. Now look over there above the door - you see that fire exit sign? That's not just
any fire exit sign - that's a 'battery-backup-when-the-world-ends- it-will-still-be-lit' fire exit sign."


Walking from the stage toward a nearby fire exit and exterior wall, Grossman slammed the palm of his hand against the wall and exclaimed, "Look at these wall boards! They were chosen because they're what?! Fireproof or fire retardant. There is not one stinking thing in this room that will burn!"


Pointing around the room as he spoke, Grossman continued, "But you've still got those fire sprinklers, those fire exit signs, fire hydrants outside, and fire trucks nearby! Are these fire guys crazy? Are these fire guys paranoid? No! This fire guy is our A+ student! Because this fire guy has redundant, overlapping layers of protection, not a single kid has been killed by school fire in the last 50 years!


"But you try to prepare for violence - the thing much more likely to kill our kids in schools, the thing hundreds of times more likely to kill our kids in schools - and people think you're paranoid. They think you're crazy. ...They're in denial."


Teaching the Teachers


The challenge for law enforcement agencies and officers, then, is to overcome not only the attacks taking place in schools, but to first overcome the denial in the minds of mayors, city councils, school administrators, and parents. Grossman said that agencies and officers, although facing an uphill slog against the denial of the general public, must diligently work toward increasing understanding among the sheep that the wolves are coming for their children. Police officers must train and drill with teachers, not only so responding officers are intimately familiar with the facilities, but so that teachers know what
they can do in the event of an attack.


"Come with me to the library at Columbine High School," Grossman said. "The teacher in the library at Columbine High School spent her professional lifetime preparing for a fire, and we can all agree if there had been a fire in that library, that teacher would have instinctively, reflexively known what to do.


"But the thing most likely to kill her kids - the thing hundreds of times more likely to kill her kids, the teacher didn't have a clue what to do. She should have put those kids in the librarian's office but she didn't know that. So she did the worst thing possible - she tried to secure her kids in an un-securable location. She told the kids to hide in the library - a library that has plate glass windows for walls. It's an aquarium, it's a fish bowl. She told the kids to hide in a fishbowl. What did those killers see? They saw targets. They saw fish in a fish bowl."


Grossman said that if the school administrators at Columbine had spent a fraction of the money they'd spent preparing for fire doing lockdown drills and talking with local law enforcers about the violent dangers they face, the outcome that day may have been different.


Rhetorically he asked the assembled cops, "If somebody had spent five minutes telling that teacher what to do, do you think lives would have been saved at Columbine?"


Arming Campus Cops is Elementary


"Never call an unarmed man 'security'," Grossman said.


"Call him 'run-like-hell-when-the-man-with-the-gun-shows-up' but never call an unarmed man security.


"Imagine if someone said, 'I want a trained fire professional on site. I want a fire hat, I want a fire uniform, I want a fire badge. But! No fire extinguishers in this building. No fire hoses. The hat, the badge, the uniform - that will keep us safe - but we have no need for fire extinguishers.' Well, that would be insane. It is equally insane, delusional, legally liable, to say, 'I want a trained security professional on site. I want a security hat, I want a security uniform, and I want a security badge, but I don't want a gun.' It's not the hat, the uniform, or the badge. It's the tools in the hands of a trained professional that keeps us safe.


"Our problem is not money," said Grossman. "It is denial."
Grossman said (and most cops agree) that many of the most important things we can do to protect our kids would cost us nothing or next-to-nothing.


Grossman's Five D's


Let's contemplate the following outline and summary of Dave Grossman's "Five D's." While you do, I encourage you to add in the comments area below your suggestions to address, and expand upon, these ideas.


1. Denial - Denial is the enemy and it has no survival value, said Grossman.


2. Deter - Put police officers in schools, because with just one officer assigned to a school, the probability of a mass murder in that school drops to almost zero


3. Detect - We're talking about plain old fashioned police work here The ultimate achievement for law enforcement is the crime that didn't happen, so giving teachers and administrators regular access to cops is paramount.


4. Delay - Various simple mechanisms can be used by teachers and cops to put time and distance between the killers and the kids.


a. Ensure that the school/classroom have just a single point of entry. Simply locking the back door helps create a hard target.


b. Conduct your active shooter drills within (and in partnership with) the schools in your city so teachers know how to respond, and know what it looks like when you do your response.


5. Destroy - Police officers and agencies should consider the following:


a. Carry off duty. No one would tell a firefighter who has a fire
extinguisher in his trunk that he's crazy or paranoid.
b. Equip every cop in America with a patrol rifle. One chief of police, upon getting rifles for all his officers once said, "If an active killer strikes in my town, the response time will be measured in feet per second."
c. Put smoke grenades in the trunk of every cop car in America. Any infantryman who needs to attack across open terrain or perform a rescue under fire deploys a smoke grenade. A fire extinguisher will do a decent job in some cases, but a smoke grenade is designed to perform the function.
d. Have a "go-to-war bag" filled with lots of loaded magazines and supplies for tactical combat casualty care.
e. Use helicopters. Somewhere in your county you probably have one or more of the following: medevac, media, private, national guard, coast guard rotors.
f. Employ the crew-served, continuous-feed, weapon you already have available to you (a firehouse) by integrating the fire service into your active shooter training. It is virtually impossible for a killer to put well-placed shots on target while also being blasted with water at 300 pounds per square inch.
g. Armed citizens can help. Think United 93. Whatever your personal take on gun control, it is all but certain that a killer set on killing is more likely to attack a target where the citizens are unarmed, rather than one where they are likely to encounter an armed citizen response.


Coming Soon: External Threats


Today we must not only prepare for juvenile mass murder, something that had never happened in human history until only recently, but we also must prepare for the external threat. Islamist fanatics have slaughtered children in their own religion - they have killed wantonly, mercilessly, and without regard for repercussion or regret of any kind. What do you think they'd think of killing our kids?


"Eight years ago they came and killed 3,000 of our citizens. Do we know what they're going to do next? No! But one thing they've done in every country they've messed with is killing kids in schools," Grossman said.


The latest al Qaeda charter states that "children are noble targets" and Osama bin Laden himself has said that "Russia is a preview for what we will do to America."


What happened in Russia that we need to be concerned with in this
context? In the town of Beslan on September 1, 2004 - the very day on which children across that country merrily make their return to school after the long summer break - radical Islamist terrorists from Chechnya took more than 1,000 teachers, mothers, and children hostage. When the three-day siege was over, more than 300 hostages had been killed, more than half of whom were children.


"If I could tackle every American and make them read one book to help them understand the terrorist's plan, it would be Terror at Beslan by John Giduck. Beslan was just a dress rehearsal for what they're planning to do to the United States," he said.


Consider this: There are almost a half a million school buses in
America. It would require every enlisted person and every officer in the entire Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps combined to put just one armed guard on every school bus in the country.


As a country and as a culture, the level of protection Americans afford our kids against violence is nothing near what we do to protect them from fire. Grossman is correct: Denial is the enemy. We must prepare for violence like the firefighter prepares for fire. And we must do that today.
Some very interesting information here. The Colonel knowns of what he speaks.
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 20:38
  #12227 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
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I cannot believe any Republican politician would say this ever, let alone in public.






Joe Biden To Female Senator: ‘Spread Your Legs, You’re Going To Be Frisked’ | Mediaite

Oh, wait, it wasn't. It was just Joe, so it's cute.

Imagine if Romney, Ryan, or the last Republican Administration had said something like this.
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 20:43
  #12228 (permalink)  
 
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Temp

Thanks. I would argue your definition is awfully broad. To the point of being questionable, I have a hard time accepting someone who hunts for sustenance up in Alaska is a gun nut. It may not be your intent to paint them with the same brush as someone who shoots up a theatre, but it does.
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 20:46
  #12229 (permalink)  
 
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Ya know, if I were a former Marine (with no doubt some mad combat skills), an owner of properly 'certificated' airplanes, with experience in Africa doing yeoman's work at stamping out poverty, corruption, disease, etc, gave intimations that I'd written a book, AND demanded that all guns be confiscated, I think I'd set the example by going into the murder capital of the US right now which is Chicago.

Surely, those poor Chicagoans are as deserving of sympathy and empathy, and therefore, action at the hands of 'gun nuts' destroyers.

If I had a resume like this, I think I would say "enough is enough" and take action.

If only there we knew someone like that.


Quick, somebody turn on the Walt Light. We need a hero...
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 20:57
  #12230 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Temp Strike

No mass gun murder if there are no guns.
If you really believe that, you are a dangerous fool. Dangerous to the "civil rights" you so loudly proclaim; in your world innocent people are denied rights at your whim. Dangerous to those who you would deny self-defense.

GF
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 21:03
  #12231 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
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How are you going to shoot somebody without a gun GF?

Answer the question.

Is it total lack of logic the reason call neo-cons are called wackos?
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 21:05
  #12232 (permalink)  
 
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Brick,

Clearly, the Walt Light has been on since November.
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 21:06
  #12233 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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A more relevant question would be "How are you going to reliably and completely remove all the guns"... When you come up with that give us a call...
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 21:14
  #12234 (permalink)  

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"How are you going to reliably and completely remove all the guns"...
Oh, he told us in a now closed thread. He will demand that President Obama suspends the Constitution and Bill of Rights, nationalize the National Guard in every State, then kick the doors in of every house in the United States until all guns are confiscated and most gun owners are in jail or dead.
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 21:15
  #12235 (permalink)  
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Is it total lack of logic the reason call neo-cons are called wackos?
Maybe. Have you tried taking a logic course?
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 21:20
  #12236 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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then kick the doors in of every house in the United States until all guns are confiscated and most gun owners are in jail or dead.
But... But... Officer.. I just reported the break-in and loss of all my weapons and most of my ammunition last week... Here's the remaining ammo but the guns are gone...
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 21:22
  #12237 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
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AA

Then you are under arrest.
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 21:23
  #12238 (permalink)  

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But... But... Officer.. I just reported the break-in and loss of all my weapons and most of my ammunition last week... Here's the remaining ammo but the guns are gone...
Then the cops/military/national guard will just shoot you on principle.

According to Temp that is, from what he has written.
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 21:27
  #12239 (permalink)  
 
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The hamster is going to lose some more weight, methinks, as fast as this wheel is spinning.
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 21:29
  #12240 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Temp:

Then you are under arrest.
For what, precisely? I reported the theft last week. Officers from your department investigated and found clear evidence of the break in and filed a report.

I'm wondering how much room is left in the jail in your world... But, of course, you're only trolling because you can't possibly be so naive.
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