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USA Politics - Hamster Wheel

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USA Politics - Hamster Wheel

Old 19th Sep 2012, 14:34
  #8161 (permalink)  
 
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KAG,
You are absolutely correct about the less fortunate still paying taxes in one form or another. Of the 46.4% of households that didn't pay Federal income taxes in 2011, 28.3% paid Payroll taxes, 18.1% didn't pay payroll taxes. Of the 18.1% that didn't pay either Federal Income tax or Payroll taxes, 10.3% were elderly (senior citizens), 6.9% had annual incomes of less than $20,000 and were not elderly, and less than 1% were others.
This data comes from NBC aka MSNBC, no, wait, it comes from today's Wall Street Journal, pg. A6.

BTW, this doesn't data take into account state sales taxes, state income taxes, local payroll taxes, property taxes, etc.

As to what Romney said: "I - DON'T - WORRY - ABOUT - THOSE - PEOPLE", it's interesting to watch and listen to the faithful attempt spin a positive twist on those six words. The problem with Romney is he can't comprehend the average middle-class American makes $50,000 per year, he wants to believe they make $200,000 to $250,000 per year. Perhaps he thinks this because he wants to extract these folks from the upper income class, repositioning them in the middle class so he can claim his tax plan is reducing taxes on the middle class.

TD
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 14:41
  #8162 (permalink)  
 
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Next merger sees the formation of MSNBBC. Sad, isn't it?
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 15:12
  #8163 (permalink)  
 
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Turb.....do you reckon Obama "worries" about any group of people other than those small groups of radicals, gays, greeners, feminists, blacks, hispanics, career welfare recipients, impressionable college kids.....or do you really think he cares about us as a Nation, as one People?

Get real.....he is just a vote pandering two faced lying Weasel!
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 15:17
  #8164 (permalink)  
 
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Patriotism has become optional courtesy of the nanny Statist socialist cabal.

It is become "quaint". Michele Obama said it all upon the election of her husband and meal ticket: "for the first time in my life I am proud of my country"

Where did that telling sound byte disappear to?
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 15:18
  #8165 (permalink)  
 
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Lyman,
Romney is poor at speaking to groups, and to interviewers because he is a man of integrity, and doesn't have the 'edit on the fly' that most pols have.
Your are placing Romney on a pedestal where he doesn't belong. He is poor at speaking to small groups, but not because he is a man of integrity. Remember one of his other famous statements: "I - LIKE - FIRING - PEOPLE." Men of integrity don't make statements like this, in fact it is one of the worst things you face in business during times of trouble, down-sizing or re-organization. Even when you fire someone that has committed an offense of some sort, you may still feel uncomfortable and feel sorry for the person you just dealt with, it is nothing to brag about.

Romney is an introvert vying for a position that is best filled by an extrovert. Nixon was an introvert as was Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford. LBJ, John Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and Obama are all extroverts. Elton John had no problem speaking to and singing in front of 100,000 people in Yankee Stadium, but he hated mingling and talking to small groups. Elton is an introvert. Introverts can handle large groups well, as they can avoid eye contact which is threatening. However in a small group, eye contact can't be avoided, thus the discomfort for the introvert and so it goes for Romney.

TD
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 15:22
  #8166 (permalink)  
 
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TD

Your are placing Romney on a pedestal where he doesn't belong. He is poor at speaking to small groups, but not because he is a man of integrity. Remember one of his other famous statements: "I - LIKE - FIRING - PEOPLE." Men of integrity don't make state

You prove my point. A hack politician would never say that, and an honest man would say it, and then have to explain it, to people who cannot see honesty when it hits them in the ears..

I have enjoyed firing worthless employees, and Romneys gig is to do just that. That does not play well with people who have a magical thinking view of what's what.

Romneys main problem is his 'in the DNA' discretion, a trait Obama uses like wampum.

If Romney ever got comfortable with himself, and put away his quaint respect for fools, he would resemble Truman, a man who, by the way, was an introvert.
Pop psych does not wear well on you.


Grok?

Last edited by Lyman; 19th Sep 2012 at 15:30.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 15:31
  #8167 (permalink)  
 
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Turb.....the WHOLE quote was "I like to fire people who do not do the job like the contractor who does not get the job done."

Who doesn't like to fire those who fail to complete their part of the contract when we are paying them.

Give up on regurgitating DNC Talking Point memo's will you.....use your noggin and think about what you are saying will you?

I have a builder down stairs right now doing some work....I fired his cousin the Painter for failing to meet his obligations.....this guy knows what happens when the work is not done right or there is some other failure on his part.

That is exactly what Romney talked of....and has done in his business career. In business you either perform or be gone....unlike government.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 15:41
  #8168 (permalink)  
 
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As above, the entire American landscape is full of people who promise, and then reneg. If there had been consequences for this failing, we would not have a gvernment that not only tolerates bad behaviour, but encourages it, to increase their domain and budget.

I would also have an easier time finding an electrician, a plumber, or carpenter, as the "Do for me" entitled ones would have learned like the painter cousin above, "do what you agree to do, or say good bye"

We would not be stuck with a President who likes the perks, but skips meetings and plays golf, because "He won the election" AWOL, this guy is.

And his wife, the one who is "looking for her role in destiny"
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 15:44
  #8169 (permalink)  
 
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Lyman,

Too bad you didn't hire good people to begin with, then you would better understand that letting people go isn't easy.

TD
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 16:01
  #8170 (permalink)  
 
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SAS,
Turb.....do you reckon Obama "worries" about any group of people other than those small groups of radicals, gays, greeners, feminists, blacks, hispanics, career welfare recipients, impressionable college kids.....or do you really think he cares about us as a Nation, as one People?
Ooh, good question. In answer, he probably does. For example he is not backing away from "Obamacare" as has Romney when it come to "Romneycare" in MA. Romney was a proud Governor the day he signed the bill, taking credit for it all and it has brought healthcare to many that didn't have coverage. Now, with the "heat on" in the Presidential run, Romneycare, what's that, never heard of it. Read the article below. Turning the question around, do you think Romney cares about us as a Nation, as one people, or does he care more about the wealthy who are donating, some in super large amounts to get him elected? What do you think he will do in office, if elected, when the "chits" are called in as they will be?

If ObamaCare Is So Bad, How Does RomneyCare Survive? - Forbes

TD
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 16:19
  #8171 (permalink)  
 
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TurbineD

I am an excellent judge of people, and we all make mistakes, do you not think that is possible? You have black and white thinking on this topic. Of course it is difficult to let people go, if business slows, or (as in Cali) gets too prohibitive to survive...

Derelicts, undependable, and dishonest people are not difficult to release.

On this topic, let us talk teachers and why Chicagoland teachers are terrified of "Teacher Assessment". It is a microcosm of what is terribly wrong with all our public services.

Young teachers are hired, full of energy and promise, at 1/3 of what the old ones make. They are the first laid off, and what remains are those whose claim to retention is time of service, PERIOD.

Performance is not an issue with the teacher community. Good teachers have parents sucking up to them at pre term class assignment, and the principal is under the gun to assign those kids with the loudest most prominent parents to the classroom of these high performers.

And that is the extent of teacher assessment, an informal once a year popularity contest.

It is impossible to fire a teacher, period. We had one who attacked a child, and one who threw a book at another, causing a wound that required stitches at the ER. Some sleep at the desk, some do not show up. Some are emotionally abusive, many yell and shout to intimidate.

Assessment? Performance? I'd settle for being allowed to fire the ones who harm the kids.

There is an "entitlement" to any job where one makes good dough and one cannot be released. Sound like Civil Service?

In the last five years, as the economy has soured and will not resuscitate, the State of California has increased its employee population by fifteen percent.

The STATE is HIRING. Whether that is unintended or no, the writing is on the wall, we are preparing for the goals of Obama, and his ilk: The State will not reduce, the people will suffer. California is losing entrepreneurs and workers, it is the Grapes of Wrath in reverse.

And the Nation, likewise. Expatriation of the best and brightest.

Turb, what you may want to look at is this: Obama has an ideology, Romney has a strategy. In business, a strategy trumps a philosophy; high time it was attempted in governance.

Last edited by Lyman; 19th Sep 2012 at 16:22.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 16:29
  #8172 (permalink)  
 
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Breaking News

Breaking news:

The U.S. State Department today verified that there are no plans to invade Canada. (Dushan? You're safe. For now.) Seems a couple of half-wit journalists had in in their "heads" that a recent meeting between Mexico and the U.S. had, as part of the agenda, drawn up plans for Mexico and the U.S. to jointly invade Canada. (For what? Molson? Snow? Cold weather? Avril Lavigne?)

The State Department spokeswoman categorically denied the allegations.

To all our cousins up north: (eh. Take off you hoser.) You can sleep at night now knowing we aren't out to get ya!!!!
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 16:30
  #8173 (permalink)  
 
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I was a teacher, now a Uni lecturer, with exceptional ratings and I really don't like teacher assessment in its current form. I'm not bothered by assessment per se (I had everything I ever did ripped apart as an RAF pilot), in fact I like it, but I have yet to discover a teacher assessment that is any good.
Current teacher assessment is subjective, done by poorly trained individuals with an axe to grind and based on bad principles.
Take the last 15 years in UK science education. Almost everything coming out the Dept against Education was rubbish. I ignored all of it (private school) and my students were wildly successful. My poor state sector colleagues had to repeat it to the massive detriment of their students, as they were being assessed at their ability to repeat Government policy. The USA has the same problems, and the American Physical Society has been saying so for a long time.

Also bad Principals (Heads) can use it to get rid of good teachers they don't like.

I agree with your conclusion. Getting rid of the violent and abusive will do.


p.s. Hello America. You got a good kicking 200 years ago. There's another waiting if you want it.

Last edited by Fox3WheresMyBanana; 19th Sep 2012 at 16:43.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 16:36
  #8174 (permalink)  
 
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I quite agree with your conclusion, one is not familiar with a suitable assessment program.

Perhaps we should go with the parents instincts? We could do worse. Scuttlebutt in general has to sustain, or it would not be scuttlebutt.

Were I in a position to do so, I would extinguish the Department of Education. With profound prejudice.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 16:44
  #8175 (permalink)  
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
 
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More and more I'm inclined to give the principal of the school ultimate authority, and charge the principal with the performance of the school with the appropriate metrics. Of course that would mean we select our school principals with care.

Imagine how the performance of teachers would respond if a principal could tell a teacher to clear out the desk, we no longer require your services as of next week. Those six figure teachers of Chicago we have seen on the streets this past week would be livid, and that is a good thing.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 16:50
  #8176 (permalink)  
 
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Seems that there are reports out there which say that Monica is writing a "warts 'n' all" book about her funtime with Bill.

What's the bets on there being excerpts available before November, to try and destroy the Clinton "legacy" just as Monica feels her life was destroyed by her deciding to get down on her knees?
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 16:50
  #8177 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not sure there is a good assessment. I remember being Head of one department where two other teachers were Head of Sixth Form and Director of Studies, i.e. my bosses. Both were recently promoted and told me there wasn't a problem with student numbers and the proportion of females doing Physics. I though there was, and within a year the number of students in the sixth form tripled and the proportion of females increased five-fold. Both those individuals had assessed my teaching partway through the year as just "Satisfactory to Good" whereas their own assessments had been better.

I have had one good Principal out of four. Good teachers can carry bad Principals a long way.

I think the only answer is 5 year contracts. Or pick another time. Five years is what most senior teachers told me is needed for both schools and teachers to get something out of the "relationship".

You won't get the best out of teachers with a "you can be fired tomorrow" attitude. What's more, the best teachers will say "No job security = massive wages please, as we are all effectively consultants".

Last edited by Fox3WheresMyBanana; 19th Sep 2012 at 16:54.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 17:07
  #8178 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by rgbrock1 View Post
Breaking news:

The U.S. State Department today verified that there are no plans to invade Canada. (Dushan? You're safe. For now.)
Well, that's too bad. I was getting my Stars and Stripes ready to greet the invading Rangers. Of course I'd still need my guns to defend myself from the smug Canadians who feel so superior because they have "free" healthcare and come from a place where "no one has a need for guns". But, hey, at least our cops go in, weapons drawn...
 
Old 19th Sep 2012, 17:07
  #8179 (permalink)  
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
 
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In my career, between airline jobs, I had eight years selling computers and data processing in the cable television industry. Always there was the threat of being summarily fired for malfeasance, non-performance, and attitude. We all performed. I don't get that vibe of alacrity from any of our civil servants, teachers, DMV workers, health inspectors - none of them. I think an annual rehire review would do wonders for the performance of our elaborate, comprehensive, enormous bureaucracy.

As a rule, government workers don't pay adequate respect for the tax dollars they spend and consume, and they need some sort of prod to hustle like the rest of us.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 17:15
  #8180 (permalink)  
 
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BenThere wrote:

As a rule, government workers don't pay adequate respect for the tax dollars they spend and consume, and they need some sort of prod to hustle like the rest of us.
As a general rule yes, you are correct. Having worked in State government for 7.5 years (but now back in the private sector, thank god) I have seen, first-hand, what government workers are capable of. Or not capable of, more accurately.

My head used to swim at some of the stunts State workers were able to get away with. A true waste of the taxpayers' money.

On the other hand, I have known some government workers who were extremely conscientious, hard-working, diligent and professional to the core. But, unfortunately, these were in a very small, minority group.
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