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USA Politics - Hamster Wheel

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USA Politics - Hamster Wheel

Old 8th Jul 2011, 00:06
  #2601 (permalink)  
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SASless

Why did the government sell guns to Mexican drug cartels?
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Old 8th Jul 2011, 00:16
  #2602 (permalink)  
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While I think something has to be done about immigration, I am deeply opposed to biometric databases like these for all the reasons listed in the article.

FBI Documents Reveal ICE's 'Secure Communities' Program Was Mandated to Further FBI's Own Creepy Biometric Database

In the correspondence, FBI officials call Secure Communities "simply the first of a number of biometric interoperability systems being brought online by the ... Next Generation Identification (NGI) initiative."
Not only does this correspondance say worlds about the invasive nature of Secure Communities -- and prove, in writing, that the motivation behind mandating it across the country was not solely to deport violent criminals -- it suggests a future where no one, and nothing, is anonymous.
An excerpt from the creepily titled document "Deployment Outreach Deep Dive," between ICE, the FBI and CJIS (the board which oversees the FBI's criminal databases):
  • Ultimately, [Law Enforcement Agency (LEA)] participation is inevitable because SC is simply the first of a number of biometric interoperability systems being brought online by the FBI/CJIS' Next Generation Identification (NGI) initiative.
  • SC is just one -- the first -- of these many additional information streams being
    made available to assist LEAs at every level, to fully and accurately identify suspects in their custody.
  • Instead of just flipping the switch in five years, signing on to SC now is an
    opportunity for LEAs to see the future and become comfortable with it, before multiple-menu NGI comes on line.
Fascinating, if extremely concerning, stuff. Sort through the entire stack of FBI-ICE documents here. And read up on the local fight to obtain similar documents from L.A. County Sheriff Lee Baca here.
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Old 8th Jul 2011, 00:37
  #2603 (permalink)  
 
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Jane, I wish you would balance your focus a little more on law breakers and a little less on law enforcers.

Lawbreakers have given me problems over the years. Law enforcers haven't given me any. That's probably why I'm less receptive to your alarm over Big Brother's encroachment. Also, I try not to do anything illegal, therefore 'they' have little interest in me.

Who're you protecting, anyway?

To answer your question, the government sold weapons to Mexican druglords in the hopes they would kill people, the guns would be found and traced to indict US dealers and the 2nd amendment, and gun control would gain momentum. I can't see any other purpose.
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Old 8th Jul 2011, 03:25
  #2604 (permalink)  
 
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Con.....the point of my post was that ATF and the FBI either in conjunction with DOJ Staff/Management direction/cooperation/guidance/control were working at cross purposes, not communicating with each other, and generally have diddled the pooch BECAUSE of the DOJ in the person of at least Eric Holder and others.

One would have to be very naive to think Holder had not at some time briefed Obama either officially, off the record, or from behind an upheld hand...about Operation Fast and Furious, the Congressional Inquiry, the risks, liabilities, and fall out to be expected.

It would also be less than far fetched to think the real plan was to foment gun violence as a means to further this Administration's anti-gun efforts against the American People.

If the Republicans will get off their asses....start taking every action possible to get to the bottom of this grand scam....they will very definitely uncover a scandal that will turn the DOJ, FBI, and ATF upside down along with the White House. I sincerely believe this will turn out to be far worse than Watergate when it is all over.....as people including American Law Enforcement Officers have been murdered with weapons paid for, bought by, transferred by, and delivered to Mexican Drug Cartels all the while the very same people who authorized the Operation were using the very same crimes as a reason to enact another Assault Rifle Ban here in the United States.

No matter how they want to handle this at the White House it winds up being a genuine old fashioned tar-baby!

The guys at ATF that are being set up for the gallows....are not staying hushed up and taking the fall for the higher ups. It is just a matter of time as this keeps dripping out....and as 2012 approaches the Republicans will be turning the Tap open a bit more each day. (I hope anyway!)

Get your Popcorn and favorite bevvie in hand, grab a seat in your recliner....and enjoy the show!

At some point....even the Main Stream Media will run out of excuses not to cover this story then the Cat shall certainly be amongst the pigeons!
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Old 8th Jul 2011, 17:25
  #2605 (permalink)  

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Con.....the point of my post was that ATF and the FBI either in conjunction with DOJ Staff/Management direction/cooperation/guidance/control were working at cross purposes, not communicating with each other, and generally have diddled the pooch BECAUSE of the DOJ in the person of at least Eric Holder and others.
Well, you more or less hit the nail on its proverbial head. I don't believe that we ever had a joint/inter agency mission that ever went anywhere near the way it was planned. The biggest problem is entirely too many chiefs and no where near enough Indians. Which rather sucked when one was always one of the Indians as was I.

CYA is a cottage industry when it comes to upper level bureaucrats in Washington when things go south.

As for the real truth of Fast and Furious ever coming out, sad to say I do not hold your optimism. Too many skeletons in too many closets on both sides of aisle in DC.

There will be some ATF agents that will have their hands slapped and one or two will have their heads handed to the media on a silver plater. As for the upper lever bureaucrats that are really at fault, one or two will 'retire' from government service to spend more time with their family. Seen it happen too many times.

Also, as your belief that this entire affair was an attack on the Second Amendment by newly appointed liberal bureaucrats of the Obama Administration, you are dead on in my opinion.
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Old 8th Jul 2011, 19:23
  #2606 (permalink)  
 
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Word is getting out that the Porkulus Bill (whole lots of Democratic fingerprints on that one!) contained approximately 35 Million USD for Operation Gun Runner (read Fast and Furious) over two years.

Now lets aske the question again....who knew what and when did they know it?

DC is probably looking a very large herd of Feral Cats covering up poop right about now!

Where is the media on this?
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Old 8th Jul 2011, 19:29
  #2607 (permalink)  

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Where is the media on this?
Digging up all negative information that they can on all of the Republicans running for the Republican Nomination for President.

Oh, and of course still in heated pursuit of Palin.
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Old 8th Jul 2011, 21:52
  #2608 (permalink)  
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BandAide

Jane, I wish you would balance your focus a little more on law breakers and a little less on law enforcers.
Are you telling me that the government vacuuming up biometric data on everybody isn't a cause for concern?

That's probably why I'm less receptive to your alarm over Big Brother's encroachment. Also, I try not to do anything illegal, therefore 'they' have little interest in me.
I try not to do anything illegal either, yet I still see a major problem with the increasing intrusiveness of the government into all of our lives.

Who're you protecting, anyway?
The civil rights of American citizens to be free from unwarranted and unreasonable government intrusion. I resent your implication that I'm supporting illegal immigrants.

Have you realized that the INS/ICE and so forth are actually being blocked by our own government from doing a job that they would be more than able to perform without all this intrusiveness?

The reasons are of course political
- The Democrats want to grant all these illegals amnesty and make them citizens; being that most immigrants are not conservatives, they generally will vote Democrat.
- The Republicans want the cheap labor.

This is the core issue, if the Democrats and Republicans stopped this nonsense we wouldn't need a biometric database. This is not about immigration; this is about being able to ID everybody wherever they may be.

To answer your question, the government sold weapons to Mexican druglords in the hopes they would kill people, the guns would be found and traced to indict US dealers and the 2nd amendment, and gun control would gain momentum. I can't see any other purpose.
Makes enough sense -- never let a crisis go to waste, and should one not present itself; create one.
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Old 8th Jul 2011, 22:21
  #2609 (permalink)  
 
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Oh, dear....

I think there is going to be a world shortage of blue pixels at the rate they are being used up!

Posting all sorts of unfounded nonsense isn't accomplishing much of anything. In fact, I think it is just reinforcing a paranoid, totally unreasonable view of reality. We have the drones peeking in the windows (at what?), the biometric data being gathered (as if they cannot find whomever they want just using an SSN [the other one, not the nuclear submarine]), one and one adding up to 3.14159...

It is getting on for beautiful summer weather, even in New York City. The squirrels are frisking about, cadging cigarettes from passersby, the city's pigeons are out there mugging old ladies for their little bags of birdfood... it is time to get out there in the daylight and try to enjoy life, rather than obsessing over whatever might be coming down next!

Not least, to be accused of something one needs to get out first and meet people so go for it!
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Old 8th Jul 2011, 22:34
  #2610 (permalink)  

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Are you telling me that the government vacuuming up biometric data on everybody isn't a cause for concern?
Hmm, just what kind of vacuum cleaner are they using then? I'll keep a sharp look out for a bunch of blokes in dark suites wearing dark sunglasses running around with vacuum cleaners.

Oh, and driving around in dark SUVs.


Or would that be white unmarked vans with no windows? I'm so confused.
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 01:32
  #2611 (permalink)  
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chuks

I think there is going to be a world shortage of blue pixels at the rate they are being used up!
what are you talking about blue pixels?
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 01:38
  #2612 (permalink)  
 
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Mark Steyn on "Fast and Furious:

Or consider "Operation Fast and Furious," about which nothing is happening terribly fast and over which Americans should be furious.
The official explanation is that the federal government used stimulus funding to buy guns from Arizona gun shops for known criminals to funnel to Mexican drug cartels. As I said, that's the official explanation: As soon as your head stops spinning, we'll resume the narrative. Supposedly, United States taxpayers were picking up the tab for Mexican drug lords' weaponry in order that the ATF could identify high-up gun-traffickers. But, as it turns out, these high-up gun-traffickers were already known to other agencies – FBI, DEA and other big-spending acronyms in the great fetid ooze of federal alphabet soup in which this republic is drowning. And, indeed, some of those high-ups are said to have been paid informants for those various federal agencies. So, in case you're wondering why Obama's second annual Recovery Summer is a wee bit sluggish at your end, relax: Stimulus dollars went to fund one federal agency to buy guns for the paid informants of another federal agency to funnel to foreign criminals in order that the first federal agency might identify the paid informants of the second federal agency.
Meanwhile, what did the drug cartels, the recipients of the guns, do with them? Well, they used them to kill at least one member of a third federal agency: Brian Terry of the United States Border Patrol. If that doesn't bother you, well, they also killed not insignificant numbers of Mexican civilians.
If, by this stage, you're wondering why U.S. stimulus dollars are being used to stimulate the Mexican coffin industry, consider the dark suspicion of many American gun owners – that the real reason the feds embarked on this murderous scheme was to plant the evidence that the increasing lawlessness on the southern border is the fault of the gun industry and the Second Amendment, and thereby advance its ideological agenda of ever greater gun control.
We're not talking about hacking a schoolgirl's cellphone here. Real people are dead. Yet nobody's going to close down any wing of the vast spendaholic DEATFBI hydra-headed security-state turf-war. And while Eric Holder, the buccaneering attorney general at the center of this wilderness of mirrors, doesn't yet have as many Distinguished Public Servant of the Year awards as Beverly Hall, judging from his cheerfully upfront obstruction of the congressional investigation, he's not planning on going anywhere soon.
GF
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 01:41
  #2613 (permalink)  
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Despite the fact that all of you love to hide in denial about how your civil rights are being eroded around you, here's more evidence about this secure communities being an excuse to gather vital information about all of us

FBI joins effort to identify undocumented aliens - Immigration - MiamiHerald.com

The documents released by activists are the first public indication that the FBI is involved with Secure Communities, and indicate that information collected at booking centers is being compiled for the broader data-gathering project.

The groups that released the documents, obtained through Freedom of Information Act requests, said the broader project is an FBI program dubbed Next Generation Identification, or NGI, that includes not only fingerprint matches but iris scans and facial-recognition technology.

“NGI is the next generation Big Brother,” said Jessica Karp of the National Day Laborer Organizing Network, one of the groups that released the documents. “It’s a back-door route to a national ID, to be carried not in a wallet but within the body itself.”

The other groups involved in the documents’ release include the Center for Constitutional Rights and the Cardozo Law School Immigration Justice Clinic.
Here's another link which discusses some details about the biometric system: FBI — Next Generation Identification
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 01:57
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Jane...

You must live a very frightening and, frankly, strange life.

Do you have children? A husband or SO?

Are they like you?
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 02:22
  #2615 (permalink)  
 
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Despite the fact that all of you love to hide in denial about how your civil rights are being eroded around you, here's more evidence about this secure communities being an excuse to gather vital information about all of us
Jane, most people are not living in denial of their civil rights being eroded. I like to think of it as being practical, and more importantly having a bit of give and take. In fact that is one thing I think really separates us from the current list of bad guys. We don't rigidly stick to some ideology, we are prepared to give and take.

Most of the time when people crack the sh!ts with some of the measures being forced upon us it's usually due to practical issues, another words, how much hassal for what practical return. But there is a group of people who like to stick to a rigid interpretation of our rights, to me it seem's very Taliban like.
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 02:29
  #2616 (permalink)  
 
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Sadly......

The passing of a legend. An amazing woman, given all of her struggles.

LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- Former first lady Betty Ford has died at age 93. She died in Rancho Mirage, according to the director of the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library and Museum.
Former first lady Betty Ford dies at 93 | abc7.com
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 04:32
  #2617 (permalink)  
 
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I had the pleasure of staying in her room at the Grand Hotel, Mackinac Island, which was quite appropriate as after a weekend there I was just about ready to check into her clinic
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 06:51
  #2618 (permalink)  
 
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Blue pixels...

Are a sub-species of pixel, along with the red pixel and the green pixel. When they are all used in proportion then you get the plain white screen. When an imbalance occurs then you get different colors, such as red, green and blue, hence the scientific term RGB, standing for 'Red, Green, Blue.' Not a lot of people know that, or so I have been told.

Some have it that RGB has a secret meaning, Research by Government Bureaus, when THEY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TYPING! Of course the only balanced response to this is to BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID! and to stick to the use of just the blue pixels, because blue is the hardest color for the government to keep track of. (It blends in with the sky or something; just trust me on this one.)

Those of us who are actually doing something about this RGB problem, not just sitting around like chickens with our heads cut off like so many here I could mention, we use the blue pixels, a lot! Of course this means that, after a while, the laptop runs low on blue pixels, when we have to go out to buy another one.

I always go to a different store to buy a new laptop because I went to the same store twice once and the man started looking at me funny when I told him why I needed a new laptop. He said it was probably that I had 'set something wrong' so that he just needed 'to take a look at it.' That told me right away that he was part of this RGB thing they are doing so that I never went back to that store again. They just want to get inside your laptop and suck out all the data, take it away and put it into their new biometric database and then send the drones around to peek into the bedroom window at you getting into your gimp suit which is nobody's business but my own so don't tell anyone about that part.

Actually, I want one of those computers like that tape player on Mission: Impossible where you can just hit a button and watch it self-destruct. Somebody was telling me how you could just swap out the hard drive if you were really worried about that, instead of destroying the whole laptop but then he said, 'Here, let me show you what I mean. I will just need to open the back up...' when I realized that he was another one so that I ran away.

The pills are working. I just run away, I don't 'run away screaming,' the way I used to.

Just think back to the old days, when Father told us that he had to use the vacuum cleaner to clear all the dead cowboys out of the television set after we had watched so many shoot-em-ups non-stop on Saturday after Saturday. This is what the RGB people are doing with our sacred data and somebody has to stop this!
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 08:27
  #2619 (permalink)  
 
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Great Cæsar's Ghost!

chuks, the inference I am drawing here is that one rgbrock1 is a part of this pixel rationing conspiracy.

Last edited by Um... lifting...; 9th Jul 2011 at 12:05. Reason: Chromatic Frequency Re-pixelation.
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 08:51
  #2620 (permalink)  
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rh200

Jane, most people are not living in denial of their civil rights being eroded. I like to think of it as being practical, and more importantly having a bit of give and take.
Yeah, but the question is how much do you give, and how much you get in return for it? Lately (and when I say lately, I mean the past 9.5+ years), it sounds like we're doing an awful lot of giving and not getting much in return for it.
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