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Child with a Streak of Cruelty

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Child with a Streak of Cruelty

Old 30th Dec 2010, 01:32
  #21 (permalink)  

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Thank you kindly number 11.
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 01:54
  #22 (permalink)  
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Yup, it's definitely a jet blast thread. But that's OK.

Mechta, you nailed it with the aggressive/defensive parent thing. I can see that going on. Sometimes you see things in kids and adolescents that tell you that they are going to have a terrible life. And you want to do something. But you can't. Because it's none of yer fecking bizness. We all bleed.
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 07:06
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Common traits within every human being. All it needs is removal of all fear of punishment; the kid's floods of tears are one line of defence.

There was an experiment conducted a while back in which (vaguely recollected) one group of people were designated 'prisoners' and another 'captors'. Left to that scenario, it didn't take long for the captors to start bullying and torturing the prisoners, the abuse escalating with time, eventually reaching alarming levels.

We're all nothing more than wild animals, with a thin varnish of decency.
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 10:56
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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By bursting into tears, this little bully has shown that he needed to be given something to cry about.
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 11:00
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The 'yewman rights baloney, that kids rule, is a frightening situation.
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 11:57
  #26 (permalink)  
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when i was a youngster there was a boy at a daycare centre i went to that used to push me round, got to the point where i didnt want to go anymore, over the space of a weekend my aunty gave me some boxing lessons (i was 4) and some advice to the point of , if he does it again, smack him,
well monday comes along and i go to daycare, i dont wait for the kid to come over, i dont even wait for the parents to go home, i walk straight upto him and smack, he never bothered me again after that, his dad also wore dresses but that was another matter
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 12:02
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Nature and nurture

Inherited genes and DNA are not the only things we pass on to the next generation, these 'nature' components are beyond our control. The 'nurture' components of raising offspring are what ultimately determines whether we have bred brats or nice, civilised kids. The responsibility for nurture lies squarely with the parents, and it's a full-time job even where both parents are present throughout the critical years. Even harder in a social climate where often one or both parents are feckless individuals who just abandon the effort, and create so many socially handicapped single-parent families. The essential continuity of passing on civilised behaviour is so easily broken nowadays, it seems. A sad trend indeed.

My wife and I were both left in no doubt where the lines of acceptable behaviour lay, during our childhood in the forties and fifties, backed up if really necessary (it seldom was) by a corrective slap. We loved our parents none the less for this 'tough love' approach, and when we had our own three children we passed on the same values to them. They in their turn in the nineties and noughties have become decent, honest and loving parents, and my seven grandchildren are kids to be proud of. The cycle continues, but it requires vigilance and common-sense to maintain it. Bullying behaviour such as displayed by the six year old lad is not uncommon in any social group, and can be overcome by 'firm but fair' parental control. I hope the child in question receives it, as my family has.
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 12:13
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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There's 1000 ways to raise a child, 999 of them are right...

I have a mate with two boys, one of them is five & a normal little tearaway, the other, 7, is socially withdrawn, isolated, spends every waking hour on his playstation, doesn't want to know. I get the feeling the parents have almost given up on the older child already, but what I do observe with them is that they have a tendency to negotiate with the kids: 'Please eat your dinner' & 'I'm asking you to put your computer game down'. This is coupled with threats that aren't carried through, so the net effect is the kids have learnt that they can pretty much do what they want without fear of reprisals or consequences.

Not for me, mine knows where her boundaries lie and no mistake. I do believe my kids shouldn't be scared of me, it's all about the love after all, but they should fear me if they cross the line & that's how the stall is set out - so far it's working.

Probably all be in tatters once she's a teenager. I HATE YOU DAD, can I borrow a tenner?
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 14:28
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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I am sorry but I am have to disagree with those who advocate the 'good clip around the ear' therapy.

Scene: Johnny and Freddy are playing/talking/arguing. Little Johnny hits Freddy.

Dad: 'Johnny, how many times have I told you NEVER hit anyone'. Gives Little Johnny a 'clip around the ear'. Johnny bursts into tears.

Johnny (thinking): OK. I'm not allowed to hit anyone unless I am bigger and older than them.

Sorry guys. Adults hitting children is, quite simply, wrong and sends the wrong message. Some of the posts above illustrate the way the message can carry on through generations.
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 16:06
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Sorry guys. Adults hitting children is, quite simply, wrong and sends the wrong message. Some of the posts above illustrate the way the message can carry on through generations.
Yes, lars, when put like that it is hard to disagree. However, I wonder whether you have yet had wide experience of the vagaries of childcare. A very occasional slap on the arm or leg should be regarded as the absolute 'ultimate deterrent', administered at the time of the transgression. The term 'good clip around the ear', or any other part of the head, is quite unacceptable and close to criminal abuse. Any parent or guardian with a sound head on their shoulders knows the difference between abuse and the caring disciplinary tap.

Examples of extreme behaviour where a swift admonitory slap can be effective in curbing the out of control child are:
  • A small toddler insists on poking things into electrical power sockets, such as paper clips or hairgrips. Plastic safety blanking devices can be prised off by the ingenious youngster, and this can result in tragedy. Reasoning with the child alone may not be sufficient.
  • A hysterically angry child rolling on the floor in public, kicking, screaming and spitting, is not usually receptive to constructive discussion.
  • Deliberate biting, scratching or hitting other children with hard objects with the aim of hurting them badly crosses the border from 'naughtiness' into serious misdemeanour, beyond a 'telling-off' alone.
The whole subject of corporal punishment by parents of their children has been actively discussed in this forum before, with emotion and entrenched views much in evidence. Parliament has also debated the subject, with the conclusion to date that allowing 'reasonable chastisement' by parents of their children as legally permissible is acceptable.
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 16:10
  #31 (permalink)  
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Whatever any child (with or without a streak of cruelty) has to go through growing up, there are at least 2 rewards afterwards:

1) Having outgrown the period when they were once most in danger from paedophiles (in 80% of previous cases, the danger came from their immediate family, relations or friends), they can mostly look forward to a better life as "grown-ups" finally, at least until their government starts fcuking them.

2) The child grows up. They're finally as big if not bigger than their former adversaries. They can give as good, if not better, than they ever received from grown-ups. Their parents are invariably those who increasingly in the 21st century, grow old alone and die alone more or less gracefully.
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 16:24
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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However, I wonder whether you have yet had wide experience of the vagaries of childcare. A very occasional slap on the arm or leg should be regarded as the absolute 'ultimate deterrent', administered at the time of the transgression.
Again, very difficult to disagree.

I was 'raised' in an environment where physical abuse was common (English boarding school from the age of 8; strap, on one occasion 12 times in one day, terrifying great aunts during holidays etc).

However, I do have wide experience of the vagaries of childcare and in many different cutures. I have raised - reasonably successfully - one family and am now working on the second. My first wife was a very special lady, dedicated teacher specialising in EBD (Emotionally Behaviourally Disturbed) children. Her vocation.

I have once - just once - hit one of my children. My son aged 3 who was running along a wall of our house with around a 20 ft drp. The danger had been explained to him as had the rules: no climbing on the wall. He did and was chastised. 4 years later he still did not run on the wall!

So, I agree, in extremis, with a child who cannot reason, a sharp slap may well work. But it should be as a final resort.

I prefer `the look`or `the voice`. Properly used can be very effective.

Lastly, when I was stationed at Gutersloh, there was an occasion when a Cpl`s wife was in a local supermarket with her kids. She was obviously frazzled and the 2 or 3 yr old started playing up.

Mum slapped 2 or 3 yr old across the calves.

German Hasfrau: In Germany we do not hit our children.



Mum: Ěn England we don`t gas our Jews

Needless to say not quite the right thing to say. We had about 48 hrs to get said Cpl and his wife out of the country.

Last edited by larssnowpharter; 30th Dec 2010 at 16:42.
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 16:40
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Molemot,

Probably nothing to worry about....however, should this child start mutilating small animals, pulling the wings off flies etc., then is the time to be concerned!
Yeah, it would be an indicator of sociopathy
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 16:51
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Lars:

I have once - just once - hit one of my children. My son aged 3 who was running along a wall of our house with around a 20 ft drp. The danger had been explained to him as had the rules: no climbing on the wall. He did and was chastised. 4 years later he still did not run on the wall!
Absolutely right - I was hit 3 times as a child, each time by my mother - once when I had worked out I could prod knitting needles into those little holes on the wall (electric plug sockets), once when I just walked out into the road and once when I hit my mother - whereupon I remember she hit harder!

Strangely though I was more scared of my father, because he could do the BIG SHOUT - very occasionally. I also do the BIG SHOUT - very occasionally and it is instantly effective with my daughters - one of whom is now a teenager.

But - as a different take on this - it is a shame, Smokin', that you don't feel able to tell the child off yourself. My wife and I have never objected to a friend having a word with our daughters if we have missed anything they have done. And, in general, a telling off from a non-parent is much more daunting to a small person than that from a parent!
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 19:06
  #35 (permalink)  
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wingcdr:

As a non-parent, I am very wary of trying to steer other people's children. It's ironic because I have thousands of instruction hours. I only yelled outright at flight students FOUR times because we were in imminent and severe danger. I remember those times very well. So do the students. But kids?

Yikes. No master switch. No breakers. No de-ice. No POH!!!

If you make any attempt to discipline other people's kids, parents act like you slapped them personally. There is a reason I like machinery.

I will talk to the little tyrant next time if I have to. I just hope I get invited back. They cook really well.

PS: My Dad had to uncanny ability to discipline me with a severe look and a handful of perfectly selected words. The shame lasted for weeks!
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 23:23
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Remember when I was a kid, constructing an "electric chair" in my dads shed, from a 12v car battery, an ignition coil, a pair of jump leads and a file.

Used to test it on r'kid.

Funny how things turned out our kid became a prize fighter interested in bodybuilding, and I became a nurse interested in sheds.



r kid....

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Old 31st Dec 2010, 10:29
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Physician, heal thyself....

Smo-kin:

In an obvious lesson to myself on how much easier it is to give advice than to take it, having posted my sage words, I then spent an evening in the company of German friends of mine and their 3 children - they are spending New Year with us.

We gave them presents: the oldest, a boy, got an electronic game, which he enjoyed. The middle child, a girl, got a pair of fluffy boots - which she pulled on immediately and really loved, and the youngest, a girl, got a set of animal dominos. She wanted fluffy boots and screamed for about 30 minutes. Eventually my friend asked the boy to let the youngest girl have a go on the electronic toy. So he went out to the car (in the cold) to sulk!

And I did....
.... nothing!

(I guess I could use the excuse that my German is only good enough to talk to taxi drivers - and I have never needed to tell a taxi driver off for having a tantrum over Christmas presents... )

On the positive, I always see spending time with my friends' children as an opportunity to appreciate the behaviour of my girls so much more.....
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Old 31st Dec 2010, 12:13
  #38 (permalink)  
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" I suspect that even when he is able to reason that physical bullying is not profitable there will always remain a bullying element within that may emerge in other ways, verbally, mean behaviour etc."

Thus offering an embryonic start to several future possible career options.....airline management, politician, local gov't jobsworth, banker..... for example.....
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Old 31st Dec 2010, 15:45
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Thus offering an embryonic start to several future possible career options.....airline management, politician, local gov't jobsworth, banker..... for example.....
Never has a truer word been said in jest. I'm sure we have all worked with a few who we feel missed out on a good smack when they were younger (although they are probably the sort of people who would pay someone to do it to them now...).
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Old 31st Dec 2010, 15:58
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The beatings will end when...

Love your kids? Prove it by beating them.

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