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Security Alerts - JB thread / Conspiracy Rules OK (merged)

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Security Alerts - JB thread / Conspiracy Rules OK (merged)

Old 30th Oct 2010, 19:37
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Cool Dare I say it?

Yes I may
Originally Posted by Lon More
Bruce the difference between them and us is that they have been elected and wish to continue with their snouts in the trough. Any action - good, bad or indifferent - as long as it is immediate, is applauded by themselves and there is little chance of backtracking as that would lead to loss of face. After all, in their bullet-proof limos and their Air Force One transports they are not likely to be on the receiving end of the terrorist's attentions
Bullshit.*


*Readers may notice that some ambiguity exists. Am I referring to the poster himself with that pejorative, the substance of his post (or lack of substance) or both?
I leave that determination as an exercise for the reader
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Old 30th Oct 2010, 19:55
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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After all, in their bullet-proof limos and their Air Force One transports they are not likely to be on the receiving end of the terrorist's attentions
Say that after you read about the bombing of the Grand Hotel in Brighton, and remember how easy it was for Hinckley at the Washington Hilton........

Sure, one of these examples wasn't by a terrorist, in the conventional sense, but to say that politicians are not targets because of the security around them is, at best, naive.
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Old 30th Oct 2010, 20:29
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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I wouldn't worry too much about containers, Nearly all cans go from dock to warehouse, get de-stuffed (which is the technical term) and are palletised & redistributed in due course.

Point being that anything on a container goes through human hands before reaching it's final destination.
Absolutely not so Parapunter, containers are only de-stuffed at Customers request ie they do not have the means to or no desire to de-stuff them at there premises.
We have literally thousands of containers making their way daily from Durban to Johannesburg by road and rail as Johannesburg for many Companies here is the selected "port of entry" Only a handful of these would have been subject to a random customs inspection and there is almost no control of those that travel the approx 600km trip to Jnb especially by road.
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Old 30th Oct 2010, 20:56
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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So here we have the latest ******* conspiracy for all to behold.

The nefarious US government, working in tandem with rouge elements of the UK and UAE governments, conspired to place fake bombs on cargo aircraft (and even bring down a UPS aircraft in UAE, although somebody didn't get the memo and got slightly off plot on that one) in order to scare the gullible, slack-jawed public into demanding ever more costly security measures, thus propping up the horrible security industry which makes poor tired captains and cabin crew remove their Rolex watches in public.

All this incredible planning and brilliance from governments who can't keep an anemic, stoner, hipster Aussie-Swede wanna-be from dumping thousands of classified documents on the internet, and failing up till now to neuter him.

Carry on, I've got the popcorn ready.
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Old 30th Oct 2010, 21:11
  #45 (permalink)  

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TailStrike Charlie Bruce Wayne understood my point. My apologies as I obviously didn't word it clearly enough, If the choice is between hitting a heavily protected and hopefully alert target or a senile OAP guess which one the average terrorist will go for.*

* I leave it to the reader to determine if this is directed at a certain poster or senile OAPs in general
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Old 30th Oct 2010, 21:24
  #46 (permalink)  
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Equal Time

In the interest of fairness, I listened to a mega left radio "personality" who was trashing the "FED" as being behind the "bomb" plot against Jewish synagogues. "Come on, 'Synagogues'?? Could the CIA be more obvious?" Not kidding. The US government was behind it all. "Mike Malloy" is the gent's name, a character I would not ordinarily place next to Alex Jones, or the "truthers". What is the far left doing giving out v. the Gubmint? I haven't a clue. My take was that the radical left defends Muslims of any stripe against "commentary" that criticizes even the fuming radicalae. Is this valid? Got my attention, It did. Oh, and Fort Hood was a "frame", as well. Awlraki can do no wrong, etc. Wassup?

bear
 
Old 30th Oct 2010, 21:52
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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wassup bear?

i think some nimrods either spout bolleaux as it gets them their 15 minutes, or they are just simply deranged and get on the media for entertainment.

not unlike the victorians going to an assylum to watch the lunatics eat their fingers and throw themselves about.


trouble is, some people buy into the garbage.
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Old 30th Oct 2010, 21:56
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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I was thinking UK logistics JSP. Even so, you take measures such as tamper evident sealing right? so it stands out?
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Old 30th Oct 2010, 22:07
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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I was thinking UK logistics JSP. Even so, you take measures such as tamper evident sealing right? so it stands out?
Re the UK logistics..Fair enough.
The tamper evident sealing will however be meaningless if the container was loaded overseas with a terrorist device and found it way to a potential target with "seals" still intact.
As TD pointed out earlier in the thread it really is cause for concern due to the high numbers of containers on the move once ashore.
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Old 30th Oct 2010, 22:12
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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The tamper evident sealing will however be meaningless if the container was loaded overseas with a terrorist device and found it way to a potential target with "seals" still intact.
Can't agree with that JSP. If a can is loaded under the shipper or the customer's control, no matter what subsequently happens to it, the seal is or isn't intact. This is why we seal them.

Of course, if the box is staged or let out of the shippers system, every man for himself, but it's not a complex system to administer. To make a distinction, I guess you're saying a bad guy with access to the can at the point of loading could put something bad inside. That is different from the actual sealing of the can itself. That tells you whether an interdiction has occurred enroute.
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Old 30th Oct 2010, 22:23
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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If a can is loaded under the shipper or the customer's control
Exactly, but the customer could be the bad guy. Is it is physically impossible to monitor every loaded container on a 24/7 basis, there are thousands that escape inspection daily.
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Old 30th Oct 2010, 22:26
  #52 (permalink)  

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Exactly, but the customer could be the bad guy. Is it is physically impossible to monitor every loaded container on a 24/7 basis, there are thousands that escape inspection daily.
So far the most creditable post in this thread. This time we got lucky, next time it may be them.
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Old 30th Oct 2010, 22:37
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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I guess you're saying a bad guy with access to the can at the point of loading could put something bad inside. That is different from the actual sealing of the can itself
Yes, I said already. Goes back to my first post on this thread. I was discussing the merits of the seal system, all things being equal.

For what it's worth, a bad guy at the loading point is no different to a bad guy steering the ship, flying the plane or driving the truck, it's tortuous logic & ever decreasing circles.
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Old 30th Oct 2010, 23:22
  #54 (permalink)  
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baggersup

I agree. There were "mad bombers" blowing up churches and theatres at the beginning of the last century. Plenty of "disappointed office seekers", Postal employees, etc.

I have no direct knowledge of this, but in the sixties at my University, "radicals" (hippies) were also blowing up things and people. More than one large schoolroom, church, was blown to smithereens by for God's sake mouth breathing broken green teeth rednecks........

Cargo is definitely the vulnerable trail, but, WTF? The Fort Hood shooter took out dozens, there are people who are seventy-ish in the Haight Ashbury with assumed identities who make the current clotzen hoppen muslims look like amateurs.

Some or more of this does not compute, just sayin'

boombear

edit. What does toner sell for in Yemen anyway? Round here, it's more dear than the equipment. Someone needs to ask also why the Rabbi ordered non kosher from Yemen anyway.
 
Old 30th Oct 2010, 23:32
  #55 (permalink)  

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Some or more of this does not compute, just sayin'
Not really disagreeing with you Bear, but when considering Matari's comment;

All this incredible planning and brilliance from governments who can't keep an anemic, stoner, hipster Aussie-Swede wanna-be from dumping thousands of classified documents on the internet, and failing up till now to neuter him.

It is a bit puzzling, to say the least, on just who has an advantage here.
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Old 30th Oct 2010, 23:39
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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I have in the past imported all manner of goods from suppliers in China and elsewhere. I devised a seal system on the cartons to quickly alert me to the fact a carton had been opened and re-sealed - primarily as a deterrent against theft. Suffice to say, none of the cartons I received had ever ever been opened or otherwise interfered with - by customs or anyone else. As noted above by various posters, such is the quantity of goods passing through our respective ports that customs can only scratch the surface to verify the contents of containers.

It would have been straightforward to arrange for goods other than those declared to be placed in the cartons, should I have so desired. All manner of 'tractor spares' can be bought on the black markets of countries not on our current watch lists. I've also no doubt that an unscrupulous shipping company would be more than happy to accommodate additional, un-documented goods in a container, at a price.
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Old 30th Oct 2010, 23:49
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Post Some or more of this does not compute, just sayin'

abso*******lutely -

If you want to sell mousetraps, breed mice.

All this incredible planning and brilliance from governments who can't keep an anemic, stoner, hipster Aussie-Swede wanna-be from dumping thousands of classified documents on the internet, and failing up till now to neuter him.
^ The statement above sets up an illogical "straw man' or premise, and uses that to "prove" it's case.

It claims, "incredible planning", "brilliance" and "govt intervention" where facts (and history) show none of the above would be necessary for a 'plot' like this to take place.
Give me a knife, I'll need a spear, give me a spear, I'll need a gun - give me a gun, I'll need a war.

The security Industrial Complex needs what it has, a constant state of paranoia and faux alertness to justify the market for, and the sale of, ever expensive and ineffective security devices

It's not that people 'arent trying to kill us'. They ARE. So is OBESITY, HIV AIDS, Diabetes, Alchohol, Drunk drivers, plastic induced hormone analogues causing low male fertility. Our flagrant inability to quantify risk and properly react to it will be our undoing.

As for the 'bomb attacks' out of Yemen not being particularly real, you can buy military shit a whole lot cheaper in that war torn country than HP overpriced toner!
As the sting operations conducted here have shown, it is easy to cultivate an unsophisticated radicalized idiot to participate in any 'terror plot' of your design in any timetable that you set to be plucked like fruit when the time is ripe.


Edit @ Con-pilot, re:
It is a bit puzzling, to say the least, on just who has an advantage here.
^ Simple: follow the money.
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Old 31st Oct 2010, 00:05
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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It all very well conpiracy theorists coming up with half assed almost plausible ideas about 9/11 and bombs or lack of them on cargo jets. But their biggest success seems to be among radical Islamists who for some reason actually believe they carry out these attacks. Indeed they celebrate these attacks, apparently oblivious to the 'fact' that it was all carried out by the CIA and some other vaguely constituted conspiratorial alliance centred on the US government, Israel and the 'military, industrial complex'.

The Taliban, fools that they are don't seem to realise they are fighting the US military on behalf of the shadow US government. The Madrid and London bombers were actually carrying out the express wishes of these conspirators. Poor old Osama in his cave somewhere thinks it's all down to him. But of course he doesn't realise he is surrounded by CIA agents whispering in his ear. Al Qaeda in Iraq spent years attacking American and Iraqis alike apparently completely unaware that they were simply part of a giant global conspiracy to keep certain people in power and scare the rest of us.

It's all rather pathetic. Most of the rest of us who live in the real world know full well there Al Qaeda are not an arm of the US government but in fact a bunch of fanatics who wish to run the world their way.

If there is a conspiracy at all it's an attempt to over estimate their capabilities. The fact is 9/11 was their highpoint, (from their point of view). Since then they spent more time murdering fellow Muslims than killing the infidel because in truth they have no hope of overturning western civilisation. But in fact they have some chance of remaking the Islamic world in their image. A Taliban like regime all over the middle east.
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Old 31st Oct 2010, 00:32
  #59 (permalink)  
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the terrorists (or brave freedom fighters) obtain all the materials in the target country and so never have to worry about border controls.
That was my point Lon, there are two countries, at least, I can think of now who would qualify.

Can't say I had heard of the books you mention but chances are I read a revue somewhere and the idea lodged in my sub conscious.
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Old 31st Oct 2010, 00:46
  #60 (permalink)  
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I would question the grandiose "goals" attributed to the muhja and Talibani. Without withdrawing any support for readiness, a think TSA is beyond the pale. I also know what I know about Bin Laden's reaction to news of 9/11. He was surprised, though quickly in approval: "Yes, it was a great strike!" Absolutely nothin' is as it seems, these days. Rattling cages and puffing up the evil character of several ME regimes is productive of fear, no doubts there. Thanking the King for his assistance in "rounding up the bad boys, (and girl)", is consistent with a view I think is obviously a construction of drama meant for Western consumption. Let's "Trust, but Verify."

bear
 

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