Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Mosque and Islamic Cultural Center - Ground Zero, NYC

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Mosque and Islamic Cultural Center - Ground Zero, NYC

Old 3rd Aug 2010, 16:22
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Patterson, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 436
Mosque and Islamic Cultural Center - Ground Zero, NYC

The go-ahead has been given for the building of a Mosque and Islamic cultural center in NYC at the site of "ground zero".

I find this an abomination and a slap in the face to all NY-ers and Americans in general.

Comments welcome.
rgbrock1 is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 16:28
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 5,509
The critical information on this project is the actual source of funding.

Whose money is behind this?

Beyond that, if folks have the land, and the funds to build, is there a reason that (zoning and codes permitting) a building cannot be built there?
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 16:30
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: East of LGB
Age: 65
Posts: 618
Deep breaths rg, deep breaths

My comment in red.

The storyline was this.

A New York City panel voted unanimously to reject landmark status for a building in downtown Manhattan (insert 1000 other things that have to happen before they begin) paving the way for its demolition — and for the construction of a 13-story, $100 million mosque near the World Trade Center site.
11Fan is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 16:34
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Patterson, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 436
The funding for the Mosque and cultural center is being undertaken by a group of investors collectively known as 'The Cordoba Initiative' whose spokesman is one
Oz Sultan.

Granted, the building permits will be issued BUT there is a thing called tact.

Perhaps we should also allow the building of a Mosque next to the Pentagon as well?

Or perhaps we can build a Mosque next to a certain field in Pennsylvania too.

NO.
rgbrock1 is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 16:37
  #5 (permalink)  

Aviator Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Age: 72
Posts: 2,394
Under the Constitution there is no way that the building of the Mosque can be stopped legally.

However, that does not make right or even in good taste. Personally I feel that it is a abominable and insulting thing to do the survivors and family members of the victims of the attack on 9/11.

But, it is legal. Just as the march by the American Nazi Party and the KKK was in a predominately Jewish town in Illinois. Legal, but incredibly poor taste.
con-pilot is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 16:56
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Solar system
Posts: 6
Legal - yes.
In bad taste, hell yes.

But let's have a church built in Mecca, next to the black rock, and see how that works out.
Dutch1911 is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:03
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: God's Country
Posts: 37
I wonder if they will turn of the speakers for the call to prayer that would come during the 9/11 memorial service each year?

I accept that laws are made, but often when a law is made, it is not possible to legislate for every possible situation, and when something extraordinary like this occurs, then the law should be reviewed and any caveats added, before potentially destructive decisions are made. it is almost a provocative action by the 'owners' to even want to build the Mosque there. Many in the Muslim world, danced and sang when 9/11 occurred, when this is built they will all be able to have a party, and say, look Allah was right, he has even built a Mosque there.
Gentleman Jim is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:03
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 5,509
Now that would be funny (@Dutch 1911), but who'd go? Last I checked, religious freedom isn't a hallmark of the government of the country where Mecca and it's black rock are located.

Just had an epiphany.

Non-trivial similarity for the name of an Orc landmark/fortress in a silly wargame called Warcraft. (I and II)

Blackrock Spire.

Only took me about ten years ... DOH!
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:10
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Patterson, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 436
One other tidbit I'd like to add to this. As you read earlier, the group of investors behind this "project" (more like a poke in the eye and a kick in the arse) is called the
'Cordoba Initiative'.

Know what the name Cordoba connotates, aside from a city in Spain?

It's the name of building which was originally built in AD 600 as a church named St. Vincent. It was then a Christian Visigothic church.

However, after the Islamic conquest of the Visigothic kingdom (which included 90% of all of Spain) the church was "converted" into a Islamic Mosque, which it stayed as for several centuries.

The possible parallelisms here smell. And it's not a nice smell either.
rgbrock1 is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:10
  #10 (permalink)  

Lady Lexxington
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Manor House
Age: 40
Posts: 1,144
To play devils advocate;

How about seeing the construction of this mosque as a slap in the face for fanatical Muslims. "Look what you did, you carried out an appalling attack on a supposedly wicked country and what do we do, let your religion build a mosque here on one of the sites of said attack, thereby proving that we are the bigger people and indeed a truly free nation with real freedom of speech".

Just a thought.
lexxity is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:15
  #11 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Patterson, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 436
lexxity:

That would be stretch. I'm thinking more in terms of:

Look what we did to you. We Islamic warriors not only used your jet aircraft as flying bombs and took out two of your buildings in NYC but we're also going to remind all NYers of this fact by building a Mosque right next door.

The symbolism of this should escape no one. And it won't.
rgbrock1 is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:19
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: God's Country
Posts: 37
lexxity

'A kill's a kill' and 'A cheap shot's worth two'. I see what you are saying playing Mr DA, but nah! They (The terrorists) will pi** themselves laughing.
Gentleman Jim is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:25
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 445
rg

I dont think any native NYer will ever need reminding of what happened on that fateful day.
Not sure how it would be legally stopped but wouldn't the prospect of violence/vandalism/hatred from the local population be enough to justify any planning permission being rejected......or is that just too much common sense for a governmental department to recognise?
Nigd3 is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:25
  #14 (permalink)  

More than just an ATCO
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Up someone's nose
Age: 71
Posts: 1,768
Looks like a case of Damned if they do; damned if they don't. Can't they set so many restrictions on the (possible) new building that it becomes unusable?
Lon More is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:36
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 72
Posts: 1,561
It is that boring old Constitution again...

We have freedom of worship in the States. How should we keep that while preventing Muslims from building this mosque? Which matters more, preserving one of our freedoms or rising to the bait as a trout to a fly?

If we simply want to become more like Saudi Arabia then I suppose we should find a way to ban the mosque, same as there should be no chance of building a church next to the Black Rock.

I think the problem of the muezzin could be handled with a zoning restriction limiting the volume and timing of the calls; perhaps we tell them to do it as in the time of Mohammed with the human voice only? I think that is how it's done in Oman anyway.
chuks is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:42
  #16 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Patterson, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 436
As was written earlier: as long as the necessary permits are obtained and the proper "blessings" received there is nothing that can be legally done to prohibit the building of this mosque.

Here is an article, penned by an Arab-American, which was published in the Arabic-language online daily Elaph:

The project by Muslims to build a mosque in the United States, close to the place where the 9/11 attack took place, is causing quite a stir. It is worth noting that the name chosen for the mosque is confrontational and provocative. The first Cordoba mosque was built in that Spanish city in the aftermath of the Muslim conquest of Christian Spain. This Islamic “Conquista” was followed by the killings of men, and the enslavement of women, many of whom were carried away to the Arab lands to work as servants and concubines for their Muslim masters. For both Arabs and Muslims, the history of their conquests remains as a symbol of their past glory, and power. They have no thoughts of remorse or shame, when they recall those heinous crimes that accompanied the colonization of Spain!
Nowadays, some Muslims in America dream of repeating that ugly history of Islamic imperialism. In fact, I submit that the very choice of “Cordoba” as the name for the projected mosque was not an innocent one. On the contrary, it indicated a longing for the resumption of Islamic futuhat (conquests) throughout the world.
Actually, New York City has already several Sunni and Shi’ite mosques. It is a known fact that the Irhabi ideology has infiltrated many of the Sunni centers; while some Shi’ite mosques have allowed Iranian Intelligence services to operate freely within them.
The State of New York has no need for more mosques, since there are plenty of them. Furthermore, Muslims living in New York do not frequent their mosques on a daily basis; usually they go to them either on Saturdays or on Sundays, due to the nature of their work. Therefore, there is no real need for the building of the Cordoba Mosque; especially as the project has already provoked the sentiments of Americans, by reminding them of the attacks on 9 September, 2001, the Islamic conquest of Spain, as well as the tragic consequences of Islamic imperialism in general.
As an Arab Muslim, and a citizen of the United States, I would urge the United States Government to confiscate the funds that have been set aside for this Project, and to allocate them for the re-building of the World Trade Center in New York City. I would also suggest that the building of new mosques in the United States be curtailed, as they have become centers for the spread of radical Irhabi ideologies that instill in the minds of some American Muslims a powerful hatred of all non-Muslims.

I don't know about anyone else but, to me anyway, if an Arab-American sees a problem with this mosque, I as a non-Arab American certainly do.
rgbrock1 is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:42
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 80
Love the way the US trumpets itself as the land of the free. I wonder if they'll consult the Iraqis before shoving a McDonald's up in Baghdad.
GobonaStick is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:52
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,104
Dear lexxity,

"The meek shall inherit the earth"

- if that's alright with the rest of you!
Neptunus Rex is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:53
  #19 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Patterson, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 436
Chuks, et al.:

Yes, we have a Constitution which supports freedom of religion. We also have many other freedoms in this country. But along with those freedoms comes responsibility.

I mean, I have the freedom to walk up to some black guy in Harlem and call him a ni**er, don't I? It is freedom of speech after all. I also have the freedom to walk up to whatever woman I want and call her a c**t. It is a freedom after all.

No, we don't do those things for many reasons. And one reason is the feeling of responsibility. Just as those who endeavor to build a friggin' mosque next to where the WTC used to stand should have a sense of responsibility in not doing so.

Legally we can not prevent the building of this mosque. Morally we have the responsibility to reject it. And it should be rejected because of the symbolism it connotates.

As I wrote earlier, would you then not have a problem with building a mosque next to the Pentagon? Or that field in Pennsylvania? Or how about a good ol' mosque next to Fort Hood in Texas? Or how about a Shinto shrine, built by the Japanese, next to Pearl Harbor?

You can build your mosques wherever you want, I don't care. Just don't build them next to sites which still bear the scars of the destruction wrought by those of you performing these hideous acts "in the name of Islam".

Period.

Last edited by rgbrock1; 3rd Aug 2010 at 18:09.
rgbrock1 is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:56
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 68
Posts: 910
IIRC the construction industry in NYC is heavily unionised. Who will volunteer to build the place, and will they receive an uninterrupted flow of materials?
sitigeltfel is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.