Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Mosque and Islamic Cultural Center - Ground Zero, NYC

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Mosque and Islamic Cultural Center - Ground Zero, NYC

Old 5th Aug 2010, 15:12
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 3433N 06912E
Posts: 389
Green lane mosque - Birmingham, UK...


Birmingham MP calls for investigation into claims mosque was used by extremists

2 August 2010

By Jonathan Walker




A BIRMINGHAM MP has asked the Home Secretary to investigate claims that extremists were allowed to use a mosque where he was a trustee.

Khalid Mahmood wants Theresa May to examine events at North London Central Mosque in Finsbury Park, where jailed hate preacher Abu Hamza once held court.

But mosque’s leaders claim the MP is making "false claims” which could lead to "Islamophobic attacks”.

Mr Mahmood became a trustee in 2003 at the request of local Muslims, who were furious that Hamza had hijacked the mosque.

But the MP for Perry Barr has now resigned, after claiming that his signature was forged on legal documents.

Mr Mahmood has also urged Theresa May to reveal any information she has received from US authorities regarding claims – strongly denied by the mosque’s trustees – that it hosted sermons by Anwar al-Awlaki, an Islamic lecturer accused by the US of recruiting and training terrorists for Al Qaeda (...)




my bold and italics
Bruce Wayne is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 15:16
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 71
Posts: 16,615
Shame it was followed by one or two (including by SASless) that seeks to equate Islam with Islamist Fundamentalism and to equate Al Qaida with all Muslims. Cheap shots, emotive, poor in reasoning and intellectually bankrupt.
Still making it personal and insulting are we Captain Stable?

Perhaps you skipped over this sentence while you were reading my post you find so objectionable that it prompted your response.




The argument is not with Muslims who have accepted their form of Reformation but the millions of them who have not and more particularly with those who are fundamentalists or who support the fundamentalists and who use murder, terror, and violence to achieve their desire to inflict their ways upon the rest of the peace loving world.
SASless is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 15:23
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 3433N 06912E
Posts: 389
more of green lane mosque, birmingham..

Press Release: Saudi extremism continues to influence British Muslims


On 17th December 2009, Quilliam issued the following press release:

In recent years, several leading UK Muslim organizations have moved away from hosting extremist foreign clerics and have instead begun promoting UK-born and -educated speakers who can facilitate the growth of a native, harmonious Western Islam.

Next week, however, a major Birmingham institution, the Green Lane Mosque (headquarters of the national Markaz Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith organization) will host two extreme Wahhabi clerics who bolster al-Qaeda narratives by advocating:

• Taking up arms against the ‘enemies of Islam’ in order to spread Wahhabi Islam
• ‘Preparing all the weapons we can’ and raising the ‘banner of jihad’
• Forcibly implementing their understanding of Shari’ah as state law


They have also said that:

• Islam is under attack from enemies, among the worst of whom are Jews
• Non-Muslim nations want to destroy Islam
• The Jews have ‘smeared creation and defaced mankind’
• The Jews were responsible for initiating both world wars and ending the Ottoman Empire (or Caliphate)


For instance one speaker, Sheikh Faisal al-Jassim – a Wahhabi of Kuwaiti nationality – said in a sermon on ‘the Jews and this religion’:

“Oh Muslims, oh ummah [people] of Muhammad, oh ummah of the religion of Islam that has combined the good of this life and the afterlife, your religion has enemies that stalk it waiting for an opportunity to attack it, and they attack it through every angle. They attack it from the direction of belief and thought, they attack it from the direction of morals and they attack it militarily to weaken its followers, displace them and tear them apart and the Jews are among the most potent of those enemies who do not spare any effort in fighting this religion and corrupting its people … they are among the arch enemies of this great religion.”

He also said:

“We have to be prepared for those enemies and for every enemy of Islam and Muslims and we have to prepare the means of victory and be sincere in our intention to Allah, and we have to return to the religion of Allah and call towards the Sunnah and Tawhid, and if people returned to that the banner of jihad would be lifted to raise the word of Allah and to implement his shariah and we have to also prepare all the weapons we can and prepare the material and moral means, so when these things are achieved Allah will help us to victory.”

In another lecture, ‘The history of the jihad of the Rafidas [derogatory term for Shia Muslims]’, al-Jassim said:

“So jihad for the sake of Allah is fighting to raise the word of Allah meaning to raise the religion of Allah and to raise tawhid [monotheism] and crush polytheism and its people as Allah has said and ordered to fight all kafirs [non-Muslims] and polytheists and he said “and fight them so there is no fitna” and he has made the end of fighting, the fighting does not stop until fitna is stopped and fitna as it is known denotes polytheism, meaning that jihad is fighting to crush polytheism and raise the word of Allah and make governance in the earth according to the sharia of Allah, that people are governed by their religions and religious decrees, so it is fighting to spread tawhid, fighting to raise the word of Allah and crush polytheism.”

This reference to polytheism includes most non-Wahhabi Muslims, due to theological differences, and therefore legitimizes violence against other Muslims.

Another speaker, Abdul Aziz As-Sadhan has previously dedicated three Friday sermons to attacking Jews. In one of these sermon he says:

“History testifies that the band of Jews were responsible for every disorder and fierce war whether directly or by preparing it by night or by encouraging it like the Qaramita movement [9th/10th century Islamic movement] and the revolt of the Zanj [9th century slave revolt] … the Jews were the flag bearers for them in secret and in public … and among them are the first and second world wars which the Jews were responsible for igniting their flames, as is mentioned by more than one Western historian and others, then they tirelessly worked until they abolished the Khilafah [Caliphate] after they had created someone to take over and prepared the scene.”
Bruce Wayne is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 15:27
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 3433N 06912E
Posts: 389
yet more ...

from the lefty 'grauniad'...

... undercover investigation has revealed disturbing evidence of Islamic extremism at a number of Britain's leading mosques and Muslim institutions, including an organisation praised by the Prime Minister [then Tony Blair].

Secret video footage reveals Muslim preachers exhorting followers to prepare for jihad, to hit girls for not wearing the hijab, and to create a 'state within a state'. Many of the preachers are linked to the Wahhabi strain of Islam practised in Saudi Arabia, which funds a number of Britain's leading Islamic institutions....
Bruce Wayne is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 15:33
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 428
For a real eye opener do some reading about Wahhabi Islam as well as
Salafi. The former, the main form of Islam in Saudi Arabia for example, teaches its followers that they are answerable to no laws, none at all, except for those contained in the Quoran.
that is not really an eye opener, Wahhabism and Salafism are sects! probably from where the coran extract posted ealier was pulled from!

"Wahhabi-Saudi policy has always been two-faced: that is, at the same time as the Wahhabis preach hostility and violence against non-Wahhabi Muslims, they maintain a policy of alliance with Western military powers — first Britain, then the U.S. and France — to assure their control over the Arabian Peninsula."

If this mosque is to be funded by Saudis, then americans should categorically protest and refuse it to be built because as you know, Wahhabism is the official sect of saudi arabia. Notice sect, not religion!

Shia and other non-Wahhabi Muslim community leaders estimate that 80 percent of American mosques are under Wahhabi control. This does not mean 80 percent of American Muslims support Wahhabism.

"There is clearly a problem of Wahhabi/Saudi extremist influence in American Islam. The time is now to face the problem squarely and find ways to enable and support traditional, mainstream American Muslims in taking their community back from these extremists, while employing law enforcement to interdict the growth of Wahhabism and its financial support by the Saudis. If we fail to do this, Wahhabi extremism continues to endanger the whole world — Muslims and non-Muslims alike."

Stephen Schwartz, defenddemocracy.org
Jumbo744 is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 15:47
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Where I'm pointing...
Posts: 583
Originally Posted by Jumbo744 View Post
If this mosque is to be funded by Saudis, then americans should categorically protest and refuse it to be built because as you know, Wahhabism is the official sect of saudi arabia. Notice sect, not religion!
You're missing the point. The objection by New Yorkers, like myself, is not that they build a Mosque, it is where they are planning to build it, and what that symbolizes to us.

I can not see any reason for the US Government to ask the Saudi's to stop this.

This is not a New Yorkers against Islam issue, or an Islam is evil thread, please go somewhere else for that.
birrddog is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 15:51
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 3433N 06912E
Posts: 389
The objection by New Yorkers, like myself, is not that they build a Mosque, it is where they are planning to build it, and what that symbolizes to us.
talking of symblogy, the twin towers were targeted as they were symbolic of 'western culture'..

. .. to place a mosque there is symbolic.
Bruce Wayne is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 15:59
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 72
Posts: 1,561
Check it out...

45 Park Place is two blocks north of Ground Zero with a large office building blocking the direct view. I assume that the Zoning Board can tell its builders just how big a building they can put there, assuming they want something that looks very like a mosque and not simply a large complex also serving the function of one.

That isn't a residential area, so where are the worshippers to come from? Certainly not from the neighbourhood...

This could become only a problem to those who need it to be one, as with the large mosque on Mile End Road in London, when you have to look closely to see that it's not just another exotic building in a city full of them.

I am sure a quiet word about the plans for the strip joint, the liquor store, and the baked ham specialty gift shop at 44, 46 and 47 Park Place might get someone's attention if that is necessary.
chuks is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 16:09
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 3433N 06912E
Posts: 389
I am sure a quiet word about the plans for the strip joint, the liquor store, and the baked ham specialty gift shop at 44, 46 and 47 Park Place might get someone's attention if that is necessary.
they could always apply for a building permit in Crown Heights !
Bruce Wayne is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 16:13
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 3433N 06912E
Posts: 389
today's news...

Parents have expressed fury at plans to serve pupils halal-only menus for school dinners.

In a move which has also enraged animal welfare groups, only meat from animals killed and prepared using Islamic teaching may be allowed at 52 primaries in Harrow.

Critics say the plan puts the needs of Muslim children before those of other faiths, while parents say they have not been consulted over the scheme

According to the 2001 Census, Harrow is one of the most religiously diverse areas in Britain with fewer than 50 per cent of the population Christian, a fifth Hindu and 7 per cent Muslim and six per cent Jewish.
Bruce Wayne is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 16:15
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 428
birddog

I can not see any reason for the US Government to ask the Saudi's to stop this.
Have you read my post? you have to make a difference between Islam and Wahhabism: Wahhabism is a radical sect, and is the official sect of Saudi Arabia. When Saudi Arabia builds a mosque, they teach and preach wahhabism islam, which pushes people to commit violent acts agains muslims and non-muslims. This is what americans should be against, more than the location of the mosque I think!

This is not a New Yorkers against Islam issue, or an Islam is evil thread, please go somewhere else for that.
Not what I intend to drive this thread to, I have muslims in my very close family. Most people on this thread are associating Moderate Islam and Wahhabism, which is shocking.
Jumbo744 is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 16:19
  #112 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Patterson, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 436
chuks:

According to Mr Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, there are very few Muslims in the downtown area of Manhattan aside from a smattering of workers. He claims that those who visit the Cordoba Mosque will be coming from the "tri-state area". Which makes no sense as I'm sure there are hundreds of other mosques in the tri-state area to attend.
There are already 8 mosques - Wahhabi funded - on Manhattan already. Surely those are enough?
rgbrock1 is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 16:20
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 24
I don't know if that clip is the one that was in contention at the time, but has been proven that at least one of the news videos of Muslims "celebrating" 9/11 was nothing of the sort.

Remember as well the 'hostile' Question Time aired the following evening 12th September, on BBC1 with numerous 'British' Moslems attacking the U.S. Ambassador, etc.

This didn't go down well that, our close Allies and 'Cousins' were being opposed by recent immigrants from the third world to British shores - yet another biting of the generous hand that feeds them. And, it didn't stop there of course - 7/7/05 RIP!

Personally, I think the request to build a Mosque at or close to Ground Zero in NY is just another taking of the infidel's p*ss!
crisso is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 16:23
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: transient
Age: 72
Posts: 17
Follow the money

Jumbo744

If this mosque is to be funded by Saudis, then americans should categorically protest and refuse it to be built because as you know, Wahhabism is the official sect of saudi arabia. Notice sect, not religion!


Wahhabis learned from the masters of the game.They are buying the land. Irony is , money they are paying with obtained for that cursed black stuff from the westerners.
wetbehindear is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 16:34
  #115 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 0
No doubt the oil helps as perhaps, if only vicariously, does the £380,000 of British tax payers' money which the Department for International Development (DFID) gave to Saudi Arabia last year.
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 16:51
  #116 (permalink)  

Plastic PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 1,891
Lets cut out all the raving and bollocks.

That they have the right to and that this should be defended goes without saying.

But no matter who funds it, no matter what the local need (or not) and no matter how benign the motives, it still seems extraordinarily insensitive to propose building anything that promotes Islam anywhere near the Twin Towers site.

Mac
Mac the Knife is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 17:05
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: God's Country
Posts: 37
Lets cut out all the raving and bollocks.

That they have the right to and that this should be defended goes without saying.

But no matter who funds it, no matter what the local need (or not) and no matter how benign the motives, it still seems extraordinarily insensitive to propose building anything that promotes Islam anywhere near the Twin Towers site.

Mac
Thank you Mac,

Next thread everybody!
Gentleman Jim is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 17:10
  #118 (permalink)  

Aviator Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Age: 72
Posts: 2,394
Lets cut out all the raving and bollocks.
While raving and waving one's bollocks around does help relieve frustration, the fact is that this thing is going to be built. Legally there is no way to stop it, not that just being legal is necessarily right or the correct thing to do.

There is nothing good, noble or graceful about where this Mosque is being built. In my opinion this construction of a Mosque so near where over 3,000 people were murdered by radical Muslims is another attempt to drive the wedge between the Muslim religion, the United States and other western countries. They, the people financing the building of this Mosque, know exactly what they are doing.

There are more than enough Mosques in the greater New York City area to handle the Muslim population, the people wanting to build this Mosque have admitted such. Even if there was a need for more Mosques in the New York City area, there any many more places available to build a Mosque or Mosques that are not so controversial.

So one has to ask one's self, just why is this Mosque being built where it is?

I for one, believe that the answer is obvious.
con-pilot is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 17:19
  #119 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Patterson, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 436
Yup, con-pilot, the answer is obvious.



So I wonder when the planning stage begins for the construction of another Cordoba Initiative mosque located next to the Pentagon?

And then another one in Shanksvill, PA.

Done so we can bridge that gap between the Muslim and Western worlds.
rgbrock1 is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2010, 17:31
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: God's Country
Posts: 37
New Yorkers. Go on strike. The lot of you, just arrange a start day in a couple of months, and with the exception of the emergency services, all those who object, just stop! What would be the uptake birddog? would it be a handful take the day of work, or would the city stop? How is feeling there amongst the masses?
Gentleman Jim is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.