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Mosque and Islamic Cultural Center - Ground Zero, NYC

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Mosque and Islamic Cultural Center - Ground Zero, NYC

Old 4th Aug 2010, 18:02
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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GJ,

glad you appreciated.
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Old 4th Aug 2010, 18:04
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Being polite and accommodating really only works if it is reciprocal.
which doesnt work if the party you are being polite and accommodating to wants you off the face of the planet.
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Old 4th Aug 2010, 18:54
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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A builder friend once told me that on most new build Mosques in Blackburn Bolton & Oldham (UK), a "ceremonial" packet of bacon was added to the concrete foundation when being poured. True or not I don't know, but knowing some of these guys, I'd say true.

I remember 9/11, a frightening time, as was the later London bombings. I agree this New York mosque thing is a 100% one fingered salute at all non-muslims. Should NOT be allowed on this site.

Lid
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Old 4th Aug 2010, 18:59
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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It is so controversial it should be put to the vote of the people of NYC.
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Old 4th Aug 2010, 19:09
  #65 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
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There is a little more to the matter than just the construction of a mosque.

Home Page | Cordoba
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Old 4th Aug 2010, 19:12
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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If enough protesters take to the streets they cease to be protesters in the eyes of the elected and become the electorate.
I would imagine such a protest would also have the sympathy of the forces of law and order in NYC.
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Old 4th Aug 2010, 20:24
  #67 (permalink)  
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FEISAL ABDUL RAUF, who is he exactly?

A short piece about the man who heads up the Cordoba initiative, some troubling questions as to motive;

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/i...asp?indid=2462
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 05:41
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flying lid

A builder friend once told me that on most new build Mosques in Blackburn Bolton & Oldham (UK), a "ceremonial" packet of bacon was added to the concrete foundation when being poured. True or not I don't know, but knowing some of these guys, I'd say true.

It is in place of a sacrificial lamb.
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 06:16
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Respect

birrddog

However, if they want our (New Yorkers) respect to operate in peace, then going about it by building a shrine to Islam at the site of a major disaster perpetrated under the banner that it was for the Islamic cause, is not a smart way to go about it, and no wonder people feel it is a slap in the face.


Ahh! I see! Mr. Bush withdrawed that word out of respect which he used in his speeches. Was it '' Crusade ''? A crusade can't be called a peaceful operation. Can it be?

With a such an aversion to 9/11 , the emergency number 911 should have been withdrawn.
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 07:24
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wetbehindear

I would don your armour plating, I sense incoming!
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 07:56
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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I don't believe in god, and I don't care about religions, but if you people actually take the time to read a neutral article about Islam, or read a neutral translation of the Coran, you will quickly understand that Islam is not what the 9/11 guys want you to believe. Just take the time to read a little bit.

If you think that the "9/11 terrorists" represent Islam, then it is the same as saying that the KKK represent the US people.
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 07:58
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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KORAN commands to kill infidels:
Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98
On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161
Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191
Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39
Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43
If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8
You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71
Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74
Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76
But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 49
Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14
O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54
Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39
O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65
It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67
Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3
When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5
Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28
Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.
Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41
O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73
Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111
Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15
Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60
Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14
When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5
Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25
Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29
Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51
Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)
-------

KORAN promises of houris in heaven:
Single-minded slaves of Allah... will be honored in the Gardens of delight, on couches facing one another; A cup from a gushing spring is brought round for them, white, delicious to the drinkers, wherein there is no headache nor are they made mad thereby. And with them are those of modest gaze, with lovely eyes, pure as they were hidden eggs. - Surah 37:40-49
Lo, for those who ward off evil is a happy journey's end, Gardens of Eden, whereof the gates are opened for the, wherein, reclining, they call for plenteous fruit and cool drink therein. And with them are those of modest gaze, companions. This it is that ye are promised for the Day of Reckoning. - 38:50-54
Lo! Those who kept their duty will be in a place secure, amid gardens and water-springs, attired in silk and silk embroidery, facing one another.... And we shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes. They call therein for every fruit in safety. They taste not death therein, save the first death. And He hath saved them from the doom of hell, a bounty from thy Lord. That is the supreme triumph. - 44:51-57
Lo! Those who kept their duty dwell in gardens and delight... reclining on ranged couches. And we wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes... and we provide them with fruit and meat such as they desire.... - 52:17-22
...Reclining upon couches lined with silk brocade, the fruit of both the gardens near to hand.... Therein are those of modest gaze, whom neither man nor jinni will have touched before them.... - 55:54-56
Those are they who will be brought nigh, in gardens of delight... reclining therein face to face. There wait on them immortal youths... and fair ones with wide, lovely eyes, like unto hidden pearls, reward for what they used to do.... Lo! We have created them a creation, and made them virgins, lovers, friends. - 56:11-37
(Different translation) Companions with beautiful, big and lustrous eyes... virgin-pure and undefiled.

--------
Koran "sharia" punishments:
As for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah. - Surah 5:38


and Mayor Bloomberg is a
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 08:11
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Jumbo744

On the face of it you can read the Koran and it will preach peace, but later on it over writes the peaceful message with those written above. The mistake you make is believing that it is only the teachings of the Koran that are taken in to account. Many of the teachings and laws come from the Hadiths, a very large set of books that tell of the way Mohamed lived. If there is a more 'severe' case or lesson in the Hadiths, then that will be favoured over the Koran. You are correct that not all moderate muslims think like this, just as most moderate Christians are not fire and brimstone merchants, but there are many that just follow the 'book'. Watch the dispatches documentaries that Bruce has linked to.
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 08:17
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Have's and have not's

PA KORAN promises of houris in heaven:

The prophet had nothing much to offer in this world. If he had he would offer ''bonuses'' instead of heavenly ladies or should I say BMI 17-21 ones?
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 09:17
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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All the holy books can be interpreted in various parts, depending on what you want. Though some books are written as such that they may make it it much easier to lean a specific way. Though not having read the Islamic version I can't say for sure, but would suspect this is one of them, and there is a good reason for this.

Now a disclamier, the next passage is only valid if there is no god, and not meant to insult anyone who believes there is.
On the premise there is no god, what do the holy books represent, some smart cookie looking at society and thinking "There has to be a better way".

So along come one true god version 1, the Torah, not a bad first try. But hey the poor ol jews where getting shafted for various reasons.

Then comes along one true god version 2, this smart cookie looks at it and goes "Well that sort of works, but we need to tune things up a bit", hence Bible etc.

So a bit later on, some other smart cookie comes along, takes a look and goes, "well there could be something to this, but they keep getting shafted, and not really doing a good job of defending themsevles", hence version 3, the Quran.

It is logical that that book may have more smaterings of violent reactions to things, if kept in context of the times and what happended to the followers of V1 & V2.
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 09:56
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Caught short...

"Cut off the member of he that pisseth against the wall!" Seems pretty straightforward, that, yet it is from the Christian Bible.

How about seeking to engage moderate Muslims (they do exist) instead of going all loopy over some extremist wind-up artists?

Failing that, as already noted, a hot dog stand, liquour store, a porn boutique or even a liberal bookstore might be enough to give these Cordoba clowns something to think about; freedom of belief works both ways in the States so let's use it intelligently instead of just foaming at the mouth. We can upset the intolerance far more with tolerance than with yet more intolerance. They just cannot handle reality very well, things such as homosexuals existing in Teheran so that a few New York nancy boys prancing around would be better than an arson attack any old time, plus it is legal to just be out and about in the Big Apple, even if you are carrying a purse.

How far from Ground Zero is this thing planned for anyway? Is it in line of sight?
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 11:35
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Now if one wuz to co-opt that bit of information PA posted...and put it into the mouth of a White Bible Thumping White Supremacist Pentacostal Preacher in Idaho.....imagine the outcry that would make on the Television each night! The Leftists in our world would be besides themselves in agony over it!

Where are the Feminists on this....after all Women do not fare well under Shariah law now do they?

I don't know about y'all but I find it hard to trust a religion that promises me death rather than love....and that comes from a guy that is not very religious but claims to be merely spiritual in nature. By spiritual....I embrace the concept of there being a somewhat stronger power somewhere in this wonderful universe of ours and that I feel the need to try to live my life to the betterment of those around me whenever possible.

Does that make me an enemy of Islam and thus a candidate for ambush, enslavement, and getting the chop at the hand of a True Believer of Mohammed?


What say we hire some strippers to walk about naked....drive by in taxi's while topless....perhaps pedal along on bicycles sans clothing....maybe if these folks bang their heads on enough hard objects while covering their eyes and walking....perhaps there might be a bit of reformation found?
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 11:55
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Does that make me an enemy of Islam and thus a candidate for ambush, enslavement, and getting the chop at the hand of a True Believer of Mohammed?
probably an infidel, but then there's a lot of that about ....


Infidel Wahhabis Martyr Two Innocent Shia Muslims
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 12:13
  #79 (permalink)  

 
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Taking ancient scripture literally is generally a bad idea isn´t it PA?
Doing that appears to be one of the main causes of Islam´s lack of / halting evolution into a faith that is compatible with today´s western way of life.

At the same time, millions of people are able to live in the West and be good Muslims in their own eyes, so it´s doable.

New York is an amazingly cosmopolitan yet thoroughly American place and no doubt they will find a uniquely American New York solution to this situation.
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 12:57
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The West Wing video was entertaining and shows the Politically Correct view of those who find critics of Islam troublesome. As to PA quoting ancient religion being a mistake....how about those who actually live it?

I was going to post a video as well to prove my point but decided not to do so as my choice of rebuttal is absolutely gruesome and not for the weak of stomach but is much more dramatic than the West Wing segment as it is real and unrehearsed.

A bit of googling can find the videos if you wish to see what reality is re the results of those who hold to those ancient writings and see them as the "Truth". The reality is no where as pretty as a Hollywood Set as used in the West Wing video.

That video was anyone of the Beheadings filmed by Al Qaeda and its leader Zarqawi as they hacked off the heads of kidnap victims who were dressed in Orange coveralls and bound hand and foot while being murdered by those who "live" the ancient way yet today.


This is not a theological debate where scoring points verbally is the way to deal with the situation.

The argument is not with Muslims who have accepted their form of Reformation but the millions of them who have not and more particularly with those who are fundamentalists or who support the fundamentalists and who use murder, terror, and violence to achieve their desire to inflict their ways upon the rest of the peace loving world.

They are killing innocents....cutting off heads...stoning women....hanging homosexuals...abusing women and all those things PA noted in his post because they firmly believe those writings.
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