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Use of Martial Arts in Simulator Training

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Use of Martial Arts in Simulator Training

Old 22nd Jul 2010, 18:10
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Use of Martial Arts in Simulator Training

I'm probably gonna get in trouble for the thread title but I couldn't think of simpler words to use.

When you did your sim training (i.e. to fly planes) did your instructor ever use reinforcement techniques like the application of a stick or pointer to your fingers or body?

I've encountered several instructors who use pointers or sticks to rap on instruments, gages and even a hand or two to reinforce what you should be doing.

Has anybody else encountered similar techniques ?
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Old 22nd Jul 2010, 18:23
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I cannot relate but it made me laugh out loud. You need to give more details, sounds interesting.
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Old 22nd Jul 2010, 18:26
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Well, there is absolutely no need whatsoever, for anybody to lay a finger upon your person, or to touch you with any stick or pointer. Using a stick to point to an instrument just sounds lazy to me.

Yes please do tell more, and at what stage of instruction for the student (how many hours etc)
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Old 22nd Jul 2010, 19:23
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Not in a simulator but.....

.....I had posted this tale elsewhere earlier. As a very new aircrew student (first assessed trip) my instructor sat down beside me with the fireaxe he'd taken from its clip on the wall and slapped it on the desk between us. (I was a student wireless operator). He'd flown bombers during the war and was a senior warrant officer, I was a wet behind the ears very junior officer. "What's that for?" I said, a lot more bravely than I felt.
"When you make stupid effin mistakes I clatter you on the side of your bonedome wi' the flat o' the axe, right?"
"I don't respond well to threats of physical violence" says I, "and if you don't like it we can go and discuss it with the chief instructor at the end of the trip." and stared him down although inside I was crapping myself. He put it back on the wall and no more was said. After two hours of dee dah de dah dit it was my turn in the right seat to do airways comms under supervision of the pilot. As I slid into the seat. this Master Pilot with lots of wartime hours, looked across at me, winked and gave a thumbs up and mouthed "Well done son!" Huge confidence boost that was.
However, it was 50 years ago now but that ethos of instruction was very common. QFIs who left their O2 mask dangling and shouted at the students rather than talking to them seemed to be the norm rather than the exception.

The Ancient Mariner
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Old 22nd Jul 2010, 19:38
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Not simulator, actual. Permitted?

A friend of mine always claimed that, as a very green turboprop copilot, he managed to mix up some levers and feather both when 'closing the throttles' to land. Furthermore he maintained that the captain found the time to slap him hard, twice, before salvaging the situation.

(For those in the know, the skipper was Goofy, the airfield FYWE, the foe - Jon B., rest his soul )
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Old 22nd Jul 2010, 20:28
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Doodlebug...

....yes, very actual; but in my case not permitted. But there is a natural reluctance to argue too forcefully with one's instructor, because they know everything and you, the stude, know nothing. It was an assymetric relationship that quite a few instructors took advantage of, and once we began to get female aicrew students .........?

The Ancient Mariner
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Old 22nd Jul 2010, 20:43
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Many years ago whilst I was learning to operate that military weapon of mass distruction 'the typewriter', my 'tankie' colleagues were learning to become gunners in Chieftain tanks! Almost to a man, the gunnery instructors used to wield a 12 inch screwdriver. Should a trainee gunner get their loading (or any other), drills wrong, the screwdriver would arrive at great speed upon their knuckles, arm, head or whatever bit of anatomy was available. This may seem cruel but the aim was to generate a pavlovian reaction to incorrect drills. Looking at how much space there was when the breech block shot back upon firing and the consequences of having a limb in the wrong place I think they all appreciated the incentive.
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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 09:46
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Handysnaks
I can vouch for the amputation properties of the chieftain, once when in the gunners seat I rested my arm on the breech block which tended to move up and down in close proximity to your shoulder during cross country travel due to the stablisation of the gun. Result was my arm was squeezed between the block and the turret roof, quite painful, luckily the tank entered a decent and the block moved away from the roof. I only ever did it once. Loaders had a wonderful time akin to a pea in a washing machine.
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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 10:52
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lomapaseo,

I too have encountered several instructors who use pointers or sticks to rap on instruments.

They soon desist when their company receive the repair bill!!
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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 11:06
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As a trainee PPL I was given a sharp rap over the fingers with the instructor's kneeboard as I commenced to 'fully lean' the mixture. He went on to fly with BA where no doubt he is doing an excellent job at tutoring people in the ways of righteousness and staying alive.

DS, a good man!
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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 12:32
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Gentleman Jim wrote:

Well, there is absolutely no need whatsoever, for anybody to lay a finger upon your person, or to touch you with any stick or pointer
Well, sir, I guess you never had the privilege of attending Catholic school.
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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 16:52
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Well I'll have to admit that the stick was used more as a pointer rathar than a rod. Nothing more than a tap on the knucles when my hand was in the wrong place after hours of listening to his advice.

One thing that did amuse me afterwards is whem after cocking up a dual engine problem at climb out of LAX the instructor reached over my shoulder and hit the pause button (damn how I love those if only they would work in real planes). He then rapped on the intsruments one by one and pointed at the altitude attitude of 2000 ft and 45 deg nose down with a 20 degree left roll and stated "allright, I know that you don't want to be here like this, so consider how you got here ..... now try to recover"

Needless to say there was a great splash sound shortly afterwards.
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Old 24th Jul 2010, 01:10
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Itís funny how events suddenly come back to you. Does anyone remember Kurt Bonow at SAA? I know itís almost 40 years ago now but he had a telescopic pointer that he wielded very much like a weapon of doom on unsuspecting 707 trainees in the sim.
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Old 24th Jul 2010, 01:35
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And here was me studying the thread title, and wondering how you practised kung-fu kicks on a hated instructor inside a sim??
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Old 24th Jul 2010, 17:33
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My CPL instructor was very big, and very old (and also old fashioned)... When we were going over unusual attitude recoveries etc and he wanted to see more positive control of the throttle, he would slam his hand down upon my own (still holding the throttle), and just 'move me'.

Worked a treat!

Back on topic
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Old 25th Jul 2010, 06:27
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Friend of mine was instructing Chinese pilots in 737 simulator in Melbourne a few years back. They couldn't speak English. The interpreter was a senior Chinese check captain who spoke excellent English. He sat right at the back of the simulator and said to my friend (the sim instructor) that if he had any problems with the two pilots under instruction, just let him know and he would sort things. He then sat back and resumed reading a newspaper. After the first landing the instructor asked the captain to retract the flaps and stab trim to their take off setting while he (the instructor) reset the simulator for another take off.

The captain shook his head and refused to do as he was told. He insisted the after landing check was flaps up etc. That is true said the instructor, but this is a simulator and as such is a training aid and I am telling you to set the flaps and stab trim as directed.
"Shan't" said the Chinese captain. "In that case clear for take off" said the instructor now that the sim was lined up. The Chinese captain opened up and tried to take off with full flap to make a point. This impasse was getting them all nowhere so the instructor turned to the senior Chinese captain down the back of the simulator reading a newspaper and said ever so politely "I cannot seem to get through to the captain that I want him to set the flaps and stab trim after landing to the take off position for the next take off. Could you explain to him what I want?"

Without a word, the Chinese check captain unstrapped, walked forward and with his rolled up newspaper belted the captain hard over his noggin. "Try him now" he said.

There were no further problems after that. Recalcitrant captains need to know who is really the boss in the simulator.
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Old 26th Jul 2010, 23:11
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It wasn't a deliberate thing on his part (I think!) but back when I was doing some aerial photography flying, on the take-off run in a C152, just as I got to rotate my boss (himself a reasonably experienced PPL) smacked me round the head with his clip board while trying to re-organise his notes for the photography misson. I pointed out that had we crashed, the AAIB would have looked at the fact that the aircraft had been apparenetly servicable, the weather good and with two fairly experienced pilots on board and wondered what the hell had happened!

Was also told the story by the CFI, 'Woody' at my gliding club that when he first learnt to fly as a young lad, the then CFI teaching him was a Polish ex-spitfire pilot. (I remember his first name was Joe but I'm not going to attempt his last name.) They were coming down the approach and Woody let the speed decay. Unfortunately, Joe's English was still not great. "Up, UP!" said Joe, meaning, 'up' with the speed. Woody pulled back a little on the stick and the speed decayed further. "Up! UP!" shouted Joe. Woody pulled back further. Joe apparently had time to take off his flying helmet (they were flying a open-cockpit, tandem glider) and smack Woody round the head with it before pushing forward on the stick and recovering the speed!
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 06:16
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just as I got to rotate my boss
Your case comes up next week.


As a young DC3 first officer, we had to go to Ostend from Southend and back often 5 times a day. We needed to get a move on, but one day, after #2 burst into life, the aircraft moved forward. I jumped on the brakes, only to be punched on the arm by the maniacal captain.

Get off the brakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He explained.


Total feckwit of a man. It would have been bad enough if he'd briefed me we'd taxi upon engine start, but even then, the fact that he'd no idea of what was going on on the starboard side seemed missed by him.

Bloke in the same company got hit when he protested about lying about their cruising altitude on night trips to Spain etc.
Young man knew just how to play that one, and started his command training next week.

The young people of today, don't know they're born.
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Old 28th Jul 2010, 07:48
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Not a sim experience..

..but back in the 80s there was a portly IR instructor at Elstree (you know who you are Paul S****s!) whose custom was to severely asault his wayward students with a Jepp manual (plus or minus 5 degrees or 50' was enough to warrant such summary punishment). A quiet word behind the hangar an a brief chat with CFI Mike Mc resulted in the adoption of traditional training methods. Cheers, BM
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