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CCW Laws......To those that don't know...Legally Packing Heat!

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CCW Laws......To those that don't know...Legally Packing Heat!

Old 10th May 2010, 18:18
  #261 (permalink)  
 
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By the time you load a pump, arm it etc etc you are dead. Noise, time etc.
In my "home protection" shotgun, I keep one in the chamber. The second to the last sound they will hear is the click of the safety.

Last edited by 11Fan; 10th May 2010 at 21:07. Reason: speeeling errrr
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Old 10th May 2010, 18:22
  #262 (permalink)  
 
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You are one of the few, Sir.

Keep it out of reach of the kids.
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Old 10th May 2010, 18:30
  #263 (permalink)  
 
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No kids in the house. Otherwise, I would safeguard it with great care.

That said, there's nothing that tightens the sphincter faster than hearing a 12 Gauge Lock and Load.

Shick shick.

Yeah baby.

"lock and load" being figure of speech.
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Old 10th May 2010, 18:37
  #264 (permalink)  
 
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You have just lost 0.5 secs.
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Old 10th May 2010, 18:44
  #265 (permalink)  
 
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When they have a knife and I have a gun, ejecting one from the chamber in their general direction and lowering the muzzle back to chest level generally wins the fight.

By that time the safety is already off, I still have four left, and they may live through the day.

When they have a gun, a spent round is ejected, after the fight is over.
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Old 10th May 2010, 18:48
  #266 (permalink)  
 
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'They' don't carry knives where I live.
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Old 10th May 2010, 18:55
  #267 (permalink)  
 
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I actually live in a pretty safe neighborhood. Small suburb of Los Angeles in Orange County CA. Only 1.9 square miles. Local police, and although the station is two minutes from my front door, the officers are out and about all the time keeping watch over us, as well as keeping the riff-raff out.

The "home protection" would be used in the two minutes it takes the calvary to arrive.
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Old 10th May 2010, 18:57
  #268 (permalink)  
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Wings, you are perfectly correct. Thank you for pointing that out to me.

The source was Wikipedia, and I was sloppy in my proof-reading.

The cabinet office held by Mr Charles Clarke, the minister in question, until recent sad changes in life an MP, was Home Secretary. He now has his P.45, I believe. Some might say in essence Minister of the Interior. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Mr deMenezes is just as dead either way, of course, and the triggermen were still policemen.
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Old 10th May 2010, 19:39
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Davaar,

Charles Clarke was relieved of his democratic responsibilites last week. Quite a feat, since he was replaced by a Liberal Democrat, who have tended to lose, not win seats.

He was Home Secretary until 2006.

Mr deMenezes is just as dead either way, of course, and the triggermen were still policemen.
And they still are. And we are less and less impressed by the firearm arguments when that kind of event occurs.

I do not like this gun culture.

Others are free to disagree.
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Old 10th May 2010, 20:10
  #270 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by wings folded View Post

I do not like this gun culture.

Others are free to disagree.
Not liking and forcing other not to like are two different things.

This is not something we should disagree on.
 
Old 10th May 2010, 20:17
  #271 (permalink)  
 
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11Fan:

I can think of the sound of something other than your 12 Gauge which would tighten ones sphincter. Can you say .50 cal semi automatic?!!!!!!

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Old 10th May 2010, 20:25
  #272 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like your barrels bent there rg.

I just like the "distinctive" sound of chambering a round in a 12 Gauge better. Don't know what yours sounds like tho. We had 45's in my days.
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Old 10th May 2010, 20:28
  #273 (permalink)  
 
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Oh, the pictured one makes a distinctive sound also. But usually only after the round(s) have been fired!!!!!!

Also has a distinctive recoil as well. The firing arm usually winds up pointed toward the sky!!!!!!
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Old 10th May 2010, 20:30
  #274 (permalink)  
 
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Man, I wish we didn't live on opposite coasts. I'd like to take that to the range.

From the TV Show; The West Wing.



A particular episode/relationship much more poignant if you've watched the series.

Last edited by 11Fan; 10th May 2010 at 20:56. Reason: Reminded of a scene........
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Old 10th May 2010, 20:52
  #275 (permalink)  
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And they still are. And we are less and less impressed by the firearm arguments when that kind of event occurs.

I do not like this gun culture
In the particular case of poor Mr deMenezes, I do believe the shooting was by intent but in error, but the killing was done by the state, not by a gun culture.

In many places where only the authorities have guns, as in the UK and the USSR, that leaves the citizen open to arbitrary action by government, and often without protection against free enterprise molestation.

The government does not care a whit that you are assaulted, so long as government is not threatened. That is why crimes and offences are against the Queen, Her Majesty and Peace. Nothing to do with you or me.

It was only to ensure that government would win in a contest with citizens that firearms restrictions were introduced to the UK by law just after World War I. Government was scared stiff, and quite right too. That was not a "gun culture".

The British culture that preceded it in the 19th century did, as an earlier poster has written, encourage skill at arms among the citizenry. I concede that the objective of government was to encourage a military reserve, but access to firearms was not limited to government and also not forbidden to the citizenry.

In the USSR, of course, famine and massacre were easily imposed in the
1930s by a ruthless government because they had the guns, all of them. You do not like a gun culture. I do not like an arbitrary omnipotent government. Walter Duranty and Bernard Shaw, and Mrs Vita Sackville-West and her husband Harold Nicolson and the like well-connected and rich twits -- and feel to change the vowel there -- denied that there was hunger in the USSR. I like that even less than I like a gun culture.

The Ukrainian mass murders would not have happened in the USA. I do not equate that to a gun culture.

Throughout the 19th century and early 20th century the fencibles and the regiments of yeomanry and later the territorials and the RNVR were a potential protection to the state against enemies, internal and external.

In my own youth Boy Scouts all carried a staff for single-stick practice, now unknown. The staffs were perhaps rarely used for that, but that was what Baden-Powell had in mind.

Even the Boys' Brigade, a church-run organisation, drilled with "toy" rifles.

I have a rifle and a licence. I have never hunted, because I do not want to kill an animal. I do not particularly want a pistol, but I hope I'd use one or the other in an extreme case for a person. No one else is going to help me, not you for sure nor anyone else in Britain, because all else apart you do not have the means. Probably not the police because (in the British experience with which I am familiar) of "the budget", or maybe they don't want to. I do not regard my intention as bespeaking love of a gun culture.

Last edited by Davaar; 11th May 2010 at 00:16.
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Old 10th May 2010, 20:55
  #276 (permalink)  
 
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Getting back to the original statement by SASless,

Just recently I had the opportunity to compare various state laws regarding the carrying of concealed firearms by law abiding citizens. What amazed me is the number of US States that now have a reciiprocity agreement whereby member states recognize other State's CCW Permits for visitors to other locales.
I just wish the states between New York and Wyoming recognized the reciprocities back in the 80's. I never felt comfortable to leave firearms at the old ranch which was a true necessity to have it on hand so ended up driving to Northern N.Dakota to tuck them away them safely with a friend.

For the European friends who may ask about the "true necessity for weapons",my back yard was often visited by non-existing only in the mind/eyes of the government, predators called the grizzlies. Not your average black bears,some were quite respectful of the grounds they took up residence but few can rip open a bull that weighted over 2,000 lb. with few paw actions.
I still have a picture somewhere after I brought down one grizzly with a real bad attitude,his one paw was bigger than a human head yet the wildlife officers often announced it as "anomaly". I suppose they never saw any reason as to why they will leave the lush Montana grounds and venture into our 100 years drought laden Wyoming soil.
After few weks into buying the property,I decided to give pet names to my lovely western diamondbacks...stopped short buying collars and leashes just ordered more ammo...

I also had visitations by many handsome Canadian timber wolves after antelopes and of course no one can say they've been out west without spying a mountain lion or two. Gorgeous animals that can blend into the background so well even the best cameras proved to be useless.
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Old 10th May 2010, 20:58
  #277 (permalink)  

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Excellent post Mr. Davaar.
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Old 10th May 2010, 21:00
  #278 (permalink)  
 
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That's a bit narrow minded, PA! A pump or semi-auto shotgun loaded with a decent defensive round will also ensure that the castle doctrine can be backed up. Just as long as what you have doesn't over-penetrate.
Well, there you go. The bloody Yank fascination with auto or semi automatic weapons.

By the time you load a pump, arm it etc etc you are dead. Noise, time etc.

Get (or should it be 'git') yerself a Greener (Mr Wayne went for them). Stick one up the barrel, 00 if you want to do some damage. Ready immediately. Glue or tack a couple of additional rounds along the stock. With practice you can get shots off faster than yo can with a semi. Less noise on the start.

More than 3 rounds and yer fecked.
Well, Mr Pharter, you have several issues....

1. I'm not American.

2. I have no greater fascination for semi-auto or pump-action guns than for any other. If anything, rather less actually. The one gun I currently own is an over and under shotgun.

3. A home defense weapon must be, by definition, ready for action. That means it must be loaded.

4. There are better defensive rounds available these days than 00 buckshot.

5. Especially in a stressful situation such as the invasion of your home by armed thugs, relying on your ability to load a single-shot gun such as a Greener is unwise at best. What if there are several junkies intent on mayhem in your home? Three shots may not be enough.

6. The best outcome is the one in which no shots are fired. With luck, whomever may invade your home will find that resistance is not what they bargained for, and instead will withdraw in favour of easier pickings. The blacker and meaner your shotgun, the greater is the likelihood of that positive outcome.
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Old 10th May 2010, 21:14
  #279 (permalink)  
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There were several cases of the police accidents with pistols. None more tragic that the one where an officer rushed into a bedroom and shot a child in his bed.

I'm sure the officer never got over the horror of his mistake, but I thought at the time that the British police were having to change to a different culture rather too quickly.

So many American police officers will have grown up with guns. Many of the things our chaps had to learn were second nature to the US guys by the time they were knee high to John Wayne.

Several Firearms guys turned up at our local Essex club. They were excited about the things they'd learned in the Sates. They were excited about the kit they'd brought home with them . . . too excited sometimes, the repeated dropping of rounds from their quick-loaders was one clue. We waited while they cleaned the mud off the otherwise shiny bullets, then we showed them how to rapid fire into turning targets without shooting the mechanisms to pieces. It was all about the number of rounds down the range. Assuming a natural talent, classrooms and a few hundred rounds just wasn't going to cut it. The only good ones were already experienced club members, with multi-thousands of rounds a year experience.

I seemed to remember that Ford used to loan a house to the police. They'd run about in it making a lot of bangs. Fine, that's a start. But compare that to being on the streets from one's first days as a 'rookie' . . . well, you can't, can you. Just not the same world.

Perhaps the solution would be for more British guys to come here - not just for a few weeks secondment - but for a couple of years on dangerous streets. I have an idea they'd go back with some real experience under their belts, but I still don't know if they could impart that to their colleagues.
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Old 10th May 2010, 21:25
  #280 (permalink)  

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So many American police officers will have grown up with guns. Many of the things our chaps had to learn were second nature to the US guys by the time they were knee high to John Wayne.
That is a very good point LR. I certainly know I was raised in a so-called 'gun culture', rather hard not to have been being raised on military bases. Basically I have been around guns all of my life and in fact was obliged to carry a pistol for while because of my position in the US Marshal Service.

But strangely enough, I chose not to own any guns, apart from an antique .22 Cal. rifle that is over 100 years old that I inherited.

However, it is comforting to know that if I change my mind about owning a gun, I can just go out and buy any type of gun I desire, well within reason. Can't really see using a Barrett .50 Cal. sniper rifle for home protection.

But I can understand a gun collector owning one.
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