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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:04
  #16321 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
JRM stands for pretty much nothing that i believe in - he's a dinosaur of the right that represents only a small minority of public opinion
Yet he and his group appear to have the Tory party by the throat...democracy?.

I suspect (hope). BoJo - I'm not so sure. He's got a carefuly crafted public image (of being a bumbling idiot!), but benath some of that I think there may be someobdy of "substance" and with a reasonable moral compass?
Sorry, no substance and given his previous track record I'd say zero moral compass...he's a pure chancer...

In the bonfire of rules and regs that follow brexit I doubt the man or woman on the street will see any benefit...
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:09
  #16322 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Bexiters have been asked this in many fora over a couple of years now.

NOT ONE SINGLE benefit of #brexit, in terms of how it will make the average citizen's life better, has been identified by any of them, in any forum.

Assuming, that is, you exclude "benefits" involving
  • free rainbow coloured flying unicorns
  • magic money trees
  • BLUE PASSPORTS.

That really is so childish !

The benefits of being outside the EU will become evident in a couple of years time after any country which does manage to get out will finally start to realise just how much the EU has taken over so much of everyone's everyday life.

Can I suggest -

- Making their own Trade Deals to suit their own needs ( Forbidden with EU membership )
- Setting their own Fiscal Policies and Budgets, including Corporate Tax Rates ( See Italy, currently, VAT rules, Irish Republic ' fine ' over low tax rates )
- Having their own Supreme Court ( ECJ trumps all )
- Allowing Governments to subsidise industries or business sectors when required ( Supposedly forbidden with EU membership, but... )
- Being allowed to follow their own foreign policy and foreign relations ( EU ' must speak with one voice ' they insist )
- Opt out of ' Deeper, further integration ' ( whatever ' Deeper, further integration ' means, but we can guess )
- In the UK's case, save £ billions each year ( of contributions to financially supporting countries which have already taken jobs from the UK using the UK's own money )
- Setting their own immigration policy and targets ( try that whilst you're in the EU )

Any sensible Government ( yes, I know....) will pass these benefits on to its own citizens and will not have to ' share ' its economic and social advances with 27 others - anyone remember a few years ago when the UK had to contribute an additional £ billion plus because its economy was steaming and the EU was tanking ??

Need I go on ?


-
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:36
  #16323 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
Can I suggest -
... and, yet again, lots of words, but no actual attempt to actually answer the actual question.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 15:06
  #16324 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
... and, yet again, lots of words, but no actual attempt to actually answer the actual question.
Huh ?????????

Lots of words, but not a single answer to "NOT ONE SINGLE benefit of #brexit, in terms of how it will make the average citizen's life better"

Any sensible Government ( yes, I know....) will pass these benefits on to its own citizens and will not have to ' share ' its economic and social advances with 27 others - anyone remember a few years ago when the UK had to contribute an additional £ billion plus because its economy was steaming and the EU was tanking ??

Was there another question which I missed ???

Or maybe you don't see anything I listed as being a benefit - in which case you probably bleed blue and yellow as well....
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 15:09
  #16325 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
Was there another question which I missed ???
You've got the question OK, you just didn't answer it.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 15:47
  #16326 (permalink)  
 
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Whatever the question was, I don't think this could be considered part of a reasonable response:
free rainbow coloured flying unicorns
.
So, if you want to take the Mick, don't be surprised when others reciprocate.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 16:15
  #16327 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Whatever the question was, I don't think this could be considered part of a reasonable response:
It's the essence of a response, which I agree is unreasonable, that one hears quite often. Usually from Labour people, though, so not that often on PPRuNe. "Free rainbow coloured flying unicorns" is shorthand in other fora for "some sort of magic Labour #brexit that will give absolutely everyone absolutely everything they've ever dreamed of, plus nationalised everything, and a Trot socialist workers' paradise".
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 16:51
  #16328 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
That really is so childish !

The benefits of being outside the EU will become evident in a couple of years time after any country which does manage to get out will finally start to realise just how much the EU has taken over so much of everyone's everyday life.

Can I suggest -

- Making their own Trade Deals to suit their own needs ( Forbidden with EU membership )
- Setting their own Fiscal Policies and Budgets, including Corporate Tax Rates ( See Italy, currently, VAT rules, Irish Republic ' fine ' over low tax rates )
- Having their own Supreme Court ( ECJ trumps all )
- Allowing Governments to subsidise industries or business sectors when required ( Supposedly forbidden with EU membership, but... )
- Being allowed to follow their own foreign policy and foreign relations ( EU ' must speak with one voice ' they insist )
- Opt out of ' Deeper, further integration ' ( whatever ' Deeper, further integration ' means, but we can guess )
- In the UK's case, save £ billions each year ( of contributions to financially supporting countries which have already taken jobs from the UK using the UK's own money )
- Setting their own immigration policy and targets ( try that whilst you're in the EU )


Need I go on ?


-
Thank you very much for putting forward some benefits to the UK leaving the EU.

However, I can't see what's wrong with the free trade agreements the UK has already through the good offices of the EU, and any we make are going to be any better for UK.
For the most part the UK can, and does, set it's own fiscal policy, the Italians are constrained by their membership of the Eurozone, but when all said and done, only a load of lunatics would set such a profligate budget as they are proposing. The one area where the UK is constrained is VAT (on things such as fuel and sanitary products) and fair enough, we might change those VAT rates when we're out - but I wouldn't put money on it. The UK and other states following own foreign policies, much to the chagrin of the EU in Brussels, little will change that. Finally, immigration policies. Can't argue with you on that one, however the UK's rather strange idea appears to be to restrict EU migrants whilst allowing in hoards from the sub continent, Asia and the like. Brilliant, just what we (don't) need!!
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 18:06
  #16329 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
however the UK's rather strange idea appears to be to restrict EU migrants whilst allowing in hoards from the sub continent, Asia and the like. Brilliant, just what we (don't) need!!

Can I suggest you rephrase that as it comes across as rather racist. What is wrong with allowing in more computer graduates from India and restricting beggars from Romania?
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 18:30
  #16330 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Thank you very much for putting forward some benefits to the UK leaving the EU.

However, I can't see what's wrong with the free trade agreements the UK has already through the good offices of the EU, and any we make are going to be any better for UK.
For the most part the UK can, and does, set it's own fiscal policy, the Italians are constrained by their membership of the Eurozone, but when all said and done, only a load of lunatics would set such a profligate budget as they are proposing. The one area where the UK is constrained is VAT (on things such as fuel and sanitary products) and fair enough, we might change those VAT rates when we're out - but I wouldn't put money on it. The UK and other states following own foreign policies, much to the chagrin of the EU in Brussels, little will change that. Finally, immigration policies. Can't argue with you on that one, however the UK's rather strange idea appears to be to restrict EU migrants whilst allowing in hoards from the sub continent, Asia and the like. Brilliant, just what we (don't) need!!
That's a timely reminder for tomorrow's Budget.......however.....there would appear to be ahem, certain contingencies now being mentioned....I have no idea why because Treeza said we wuz 95% complete.....the remaining 5% being the bits that really matter but that's not really being mentioned as 95% sounds far more impressive than 5% now doesn't it.....because it seems that, in that immortal phrase we have all heard before " the UK Gov't wishes to announce the end of austerity is delayed due to operational reasons ---- passengers are requested to return to the departure lounge and await further announcements "

Makes you wonder how far the detailed planning for the "Plan B" Budget has really progressed and it's probably a safe bet to assume a considerable way.

Anyway, we look forward to the usual JB MiddleHingurlahnd fraternity weeping and wailing tomorrow when their hopes of a tax cuts for the 40% and above payers are cruelly dashed as the money is going to those who fritter away all their benefits on booze, fags, take-ways and drugs ....as all benefit claimants do according to the JB + Mail societal analyticalscenti......lets just call it Universal Credit shall we....chaps.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46009087
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 18:30
  #16331 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
You've got the question OK, you just didn't answer it.
I give up.....
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 19:16
  #16332 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
I give up.....
Not surprised. All leavers do that rather than actually answer the question.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 20:48
  #16333 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Bexiters have been asked this in many fora over a couple of years now.

NOT ONE SINGLE benefit of #brexit, in terms of how it will make the average citizen's life better, has been identified by any of them, in any forum.

Assuming, that is, you exclude "benefits" involving
  • free rainbow coloured flying unicorns
  • magic money trees
  • BLUE PASSPORTS.
Hello Gertie,

Iím a leaver and am content that Brexit will make my life better. But then I live a different life to you and so I doubt you would see any merit in any pros I might offer. As to how Brexit will impact the average citizen I couldnít begin to say as I suspect that as far as quality of life is concerned there is no such average citizen.

As a Remainer, could you perhaps explain to your average citizen how remaining will improve their quality of. Life.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 21:14
  #16334 (permalink)  
 
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If you have three people shouting at you the best thing to do is to go to another pub.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 21:31
  #16335 (permalink)  
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ATNotts - VAT

Yes, sanitary products is an EU issue as we cannot remove them from VAT.

The VAT problem is not Fuel but everything else. The Chancellor can increase or reduce VAT with a floor of 15 %. The problem with fuel is only that the Chancellor cannot reduce it. Once out of the EU he will be free to increase VAT should be so wish knowing he can later reduce it.

Do we imagine for one moment, other than the manifesto commitment, that he would reduce any VAT.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 00:20
  #16336 (permalink)  
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He can only manipulate VAT within the confines of the EU VAT regulations. This is one of the reasons why the Marxist opposition so desperately want to leave the EU but yet are afraid to make any sort of commitment, wisely preferring, as good Communists, to fence sit until they can bayonet their opponents in the back.
There will however, be a Brexit deal after tomorrow's budget. Hammond today has signified that, if a no Brexit deal happens, he will have en emergency budget in which he will steer Britain into a low corporation taxation, business friendly, Singapore style economy. One refrains from too much stating of the obvious here. This is the EU's worst nightmare, a free port economy in the north compounded by a rebellious Italy on the southern borders of the evil empire. Had Europe its own army, troops would already be massing on the alpine border and the embarkation point for the Channel crossing already selected. As it is, the empire will engineer a deal and make the British look weak in the process.

Tomorrow will see some creative budgeting but one doubts it will be as devious as Marxian economics modified for the British public.


Stephen Bush. New Statesman. (So you know it's true.)
Under Labour’s fiscal rule, it has to balance day-to-day spending and aim for an operational surplus by 2022. That is to say, it can’t spend more on the regular functions of government than it takes in through tax. But it can borrow for infrastructure spending. To put it in real terms – Labour can’t spend money it doesn't have to pay doctors and nurses, or teachers. But it can borrow money - up to £250bn until 2027 - to build a new school or hospital.

Taking something into public ownership counts as infrastructure spend – just as Gordon Brown’s nationalising of the banks during the financial crisis did – under Labour’s rule, which is why the party doesn’t need to provide a revenue stream to do so. Just as spending on a new hospital secures a capital asset, so does nationalising something.

The counter-argument is that infrastructure spending creates jobs and improves productivity, but nationalising something merely changes whether those jobs are private or public. The Labour leadership’s view – and the one that would be tested if they won – is that by putting these assets into state hands, you unlock higher productivity and better job growth. (And, in the case of water companies, you gain tax revenue, as Labour’s shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, believes these companies are engaging in tax avoidance.)

And that’s why Labour hasn’t provided a cost for its renationalisation programme – and why, under its own fiscal rule, it doesn't need to.

Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 29th Oct 2018 at 01:04.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 06:48
  #16337 (permalink)  
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This is an interesting development and not before time given the propagation of such groups in the UK.

No doubt there will be the usual JB recourse to "left wing rabble / rampaging mobs " but try and be honest, for a change, because it's these sort of people who pose the real threat to society.....

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-police-action

For those who lack the acumen to understand just how perilous the UK's financial dilemma is, this depiction should give you a clue.

And since Treeza assures us, and some no doubt believe her every word, that we are now only a mere 5% away from complete satisfaction with the new "T's and C's " and with 5 months left, this gives ample time at 1% per month before we decorate the streets with bunting and have a national day of celebration ! ......hoorah for the sterling efforts of our tireless negotiators over the last two years !

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...budget-cartoon

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 29th Oct 2018 at 06:59.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 08:10
  #16338 (permalink)  
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 08:27
  #16339 (permalink)  
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POLITICO:

BritCoin: The morning’s real talker however is a Sun scoop that Hammond will announce a special new 50p coin to mark Brexit Day next March. Treasury sources tell Tom Newton Dunn the coin will be emblazoned with the innocent-sounding phrase “Friendship with all nations,” which at first glance looks like a rather cloying attempt to show that Brexit does not mean Britain is headed for an isolationist future. However, detailed research — OK, so it’s the top Google hit — reveals that this is actually a quote from a somewhat, erm, isolationist speech given by U.S. Founding Father Thomas Jefferson in 1801, in which he pledged “peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.”
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 09:27
  #16340 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
Can I suggest you rephrase that as it comes across as rather racist. What is wrong with allowing in more computer graduates from India and restricting beggars from Romania?
I guess it does; but the point I was rather clumsily trying to make was that by and large our European friends tend to arrive here without the baggage of rather large extended families, and are for the most part young working people with no, or very small families that are not a big pull on the welfare koffers. They are often also short term residents, happy to return to their countries of origin as their economic and social circumstances require. The level of immigration and the jobs that we will be looking to fill post brexit will require a broader spread of people than computer graduates too.

I would say that characterising all Romanians as beggars may also smell a little of racism!!
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