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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 28th Oct 2018, 12:38
  #16321 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
OK I'll rise to the challenge on that one...
But you didn't.

Lots of words, but not a single answer to "NOT ONE SINGLE benefit of #brexit, in terms of how it will make the average citizen's life better".

Again..
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 12:46
  #16322 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Absolutely noble sentiments.

Now...look at those on the Tory side of the house pushing so hard for Brexit, driving this thing towards B day... ( the ERG, JRM et al, plus fellow travellers) and ask yourself if they are motivated by the same sentiments as you and other philantrophic Brexiters might be..

Do you think they want slower growth and a fairer distribution of wealth?

Honest answer please...
JRM stands for pretty much nothing that i believe in - he's a dinosaur of the right that represents only a small minority of public opinion I suspect (hope). BoJo - I'm not so sure. He's got a carefuly crafted public image (of being a bumbling idiot!), but benath some of that I think there may be someobdy of "substance" and with a reasonable moral compass?

The dearth of real political talent nowadays, on all sides, is a massive issue and of course risks opening the door to somebody like JRM.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 12:49
  #16323 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
But you didn't.

Lots of words, but not a single answer to "NOT ONE SINGLE benefit of #brexit, in terms of how it will make the average citizen's life better".

Again..
That's a very simplistic question Gertrude, and I'm not sure there is a binary "yes it will / no it wont" make peoples lives better answer.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 13:36
  #16324 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
That's a very simplistic question Gertrude, and I'm not sure there is a binary "yes it will / no it wont" make peoples lives better answer.
So, the question that everyone should be asking themselves before making any decision, "how will this make whose life better?", you're saying nobody has thought about?
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 13:55
  #16325 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post

NOT ONE SINGLE benefit of #brexit, in terms of how it will make the average citizen's life better, has been identified by any of them, in any forum.
Well the average citizen will be better off by having their voices heard through repatriating Sovereignty to the UK. They will be able to vote in a government that does what they want - they could vote in one that cut VAT for instance, or that brought back British Rail, that reintroduced capital restrictions, etc. etc.

I fully agree that you personally may not like some or all of the policies introduced but if that is the will of the people then their lives have been improved by being listened to for once.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:01
  #16326 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
So, the question that everyone should be asking themselves before making any decision, "how will this make whose life better?", you're saying nobody has thought about?
Each one us had the opportunity to answer that question for ourselves in June 2016. Some will have had a very clear idea of what they were voting for and why, and some will have been less clear (and perhaps a little easily led) - but that's democracy, warts and all. It's doesnt always deliver the answer those in control either expect or want
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:04
  #16327 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
JRM stands for pretty much nothing that i believe in - he's a dinosaur of the right that represents only a small minority of public opinion
Yet he and his group appear to have the Tory party by the throat...democracy?.

I suspect (hope). BoJo - I'm not so sure. He's got a carefuly crafted public image (of being a bumbling idiot!), but benath some of that I think there may be someobdy of "substance" and with a reasonable moral compass?
Sorry, no substance and given his previous track record I'd say zero moral compass...he's a pure chancer...

In the bonfire of rules and regs that follow brexit I doubt the man or woman on the street will see any benefit...
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:09
  #16328 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Bexiters have been asked this in many fora over a couple of years now.

NOT ONE SINGLE benefit of #brexit, in terms of how it will make the average citizen's life better, has been identified by any of them, in any forum.

Assuming, that is, you exclude "benefits" involving
  • free rainbow coloured flying unicorns
  • magic money trees
  • BLUE PASSPORTS.

That really is so childish !

The benefits of being outside the EU will become evident in a couple of years time after any country which does manage to get out will finally start to realise just how much the EU has taken over so much of everyone's everyday life.

Can I suggest -

- Making their own Trade Deals to suit their own needs ( Forbidden with EU membership )
- Setting their own Fiscal Policies and Budgets, including Corporate Tax Rates ( See Italy, currently, VAT rules, Irish Republic ' fine ' over low tax rates )
- Having their own Supreme Court ( ECJ trumps all )
- Allowing Governments to subsidise industries or business sectors when required ( Supposedly forbidden with EU membership, but... )
- Being allowed to follow their own foreign policy and foreign relations ( EU ' must speak with one voice ' they insist )
- Opt out of ' Deeper, further integration ' ( whatever ' Deeper, further integration ' means, but we can guess )
- In the UK's case, save £ billions each year ( of contributions to financially supporting countries which have already taken jobs from the UK using the UK's own money )
- Setting their own immigration policy and targets ( try that whilst you're in the EU )

Any sensible Government ( yes, I know....) will pass these benefits on to its own citizens and will not have to ' share ' its economic and social advances with 27 others - anyone remember a few years ago when the UK had to contribute an additional £ billion plus because its economy was steaming and the EU was tanking ??

Need I go on ?


-
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:36
  #16329 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
Can I suggest -
... and, yet again, lots of words, but no actual attempt to actually answer the actual question.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 15:06
  #16330 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
... and, yet again, lots of words, but no actual attempt to actually answer the actual question.
Huh ?????????

Lots of words, but not a single answer to "NOT ONE SINGLE benefit of #brexit, in terms of how it will make the average citizen's life better"

Any sensible Government ( yes, I know....) will pass these benefits on to its own citizens and will not have to ' share ' its economic and social advances with 27 others - anyone remember a few years ago when the UK had to contribute an additional £ billion plus because its economy was steaming and the EU was tanking ??

Was there another question which I missed ???

Or maybe you don't see anything I listed as being a benefit - in which case you probably bleed blue and yellow as well....
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 15:09
  #16331 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
Was there another question which I missed ???
You've got the question OK, you just didn't answer it.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 15:47
  #16332 (permalink)  
 
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Whatever the question was, I don't think this could be considered part of a reasonable response:
free rainbow coloured flying unicorns
.
So, if you want to take the Mick, don't be surprised when others reciprocate.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 16:15
  #16333 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Whatever the question was, I don't think this could be considered part of a reasonable response:
It's the essence of a response, which I agree is unreasonable, that one hears quite often. Usually from Labour people, though, so not that often on PPRuNe. "Free rainbow coloured flying unicorns" is shorthand in other fora for "some sort of magic Labour #brexit that will give absolutely everyone absolutely everything they've ever dreamed of, plus nationalised everything, and a Trot socialist workers' paradise".
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 16:51
  #16334 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
That really is so childish !

The benefits of being outside the EU will become evident in a couple of years time after any country which does manage to get out will finally start to realise just how much the EU has taken over so much of everyone's everyday life.

Can I suggest -

- Making their own Trade Deals to suit their own needs ( Forbidden with EU membership )
- Setting their own Fiscal Policies and Budgets, including Corporate Tax Rates ( See Italy, currently, VAT rules, Irish Republic ' fine ' over low tax rates )
- Having their own Supreme Court ( ECJ trumps all )
- Allowing Governments to subsidise industries or business sectors when required ( Supposedly forbidden with EU membership, but... )
- Being allowed to follow their own foreign policy and foreign relations ( EU ' must speak with one voice ' they insist )
- Opt out of ' Deeper, further integration ' ( whatever ' Deeper, further integration ' means, but we can guess )
- In the UK's case, save £ billions each year ( of contributions to financially supporting countries which have already taken jobs from the UK using the UK's own money )
- Setting their own immigration policy and targets ( try that whilst you're in the EU )


Need I go on ?


-
Thank you very much for putting forward some benefits to the UK leaving the EU.

However, I can't see what's wrong with the free trade agreements the UK has already through the good offices of the EU, and any we make are going to be any better for UK.
For the most part the UK can, and does, set it's own fiscal policy, the Italians are constrained by their membership of the Eurozone, but when all said and done, only a load of lunatics would set such a profligate budget as they are proposing. The one area where the UK is constrained is VAT (on things such as fuel and sanitary products) and fair enough, we might change those VAT rates when we're out - but I wouldn't put money on it. The UK and other states following own foreign policies, much to the chagrin of the EU in Brussels, little will change that. Finally, immigration policies. Can't argue with you on that one, however the UK's rather strange idea appears to be to restrict EU migrants whilst allowing in hoards from the sub continent, Asia and the like. Brilliant, just what we (don't) need!!
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 18:06
  #16335 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
however the UK's rather strange idea appears to be to restrict EU migrants whilst allowing in hoards from the sub continent, Asia and the like. Brilliant, just what we (don't) need!!

Can I suggest you rephrase that as it comes across as rather racist. What is wrong with allowing in more computer graduates from India and restricting beggars from Romania?
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 18:30
  #16336 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Thank you very much for putting forward some benefits to the UK leaving the EU.

However, I can't see what's wrong with the free trade agreements the UK has already through the good offices of the EU, and any we make are going to be any better for UK.
For the most part the UK can, and does, set it's own fiscal policy, the Italians are constrained by their membership of the Eurozone, but when all said and done, only a load of lunatics would set such a profligate budget as they are proposing. The one area where the UK is constrained is VAT (on things such as fuel and sanitary products) and fair enough, we might change those VAT rates when we're out - but I wouldn't put money on it. The UK and other states following own foreign policies, much to the chagrin of the EU in Brussels, little will change that. Finally, immigration policies. Can't argue with you on that one, however the UK's rather strange idea appears to be to restrict EU migrants whilst allowing in hoards from the sub continent, Asia and the like. Brilliant, just what we (don't) need!!
That's a timely reminder for tomorrow's Budget.......however.....there would appear to be ahem, certain contingencies now being mentioned....I have no idea why because Treeza said we wuz 95% complete.....the remaining 5% being the bits that really matter but that's not really being mentioned as 95% sounds far more impressive than 5% now doesn't it.....because it seems that, in that immortal phrase we have all heard before " the UK Gov't wishes to announce the end of austerity is delayed due to operational reasons ---- passengers are requested to return to the departure lounge and await further announcements "

Makes you wonder how far the detailed planning for the "Plan B" Budget has really progressed and it's probably a safe bet to assume a considerable way.

Anyway, we look forward to the usual JB MiddleHingurlahnd fraternity weeping and wailing tomorrow when their hopes of a tax cuts for the 40% and above payers are cruelly dashed as the money is going to those who fritter away all their benefits on booze, fags, take-ways and drugs ....as all benefit claimants do according to the JB + Mail societal analyticalscenti......lets just call it Universal Credit shall we....chaps.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46009087
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 18:30
  #16337 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
You've got the question OK, you just didn't answer it.
I give up.....
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 19:16
  #16338 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
I give up.....
Not surprised. All leavers do that rather than actually answer the question.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 20:48
  #16339 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Bexiters have been asked this in many fora over a couple of years now.

NOT ONE SINGLE benefit of #brexit, in terms of how it will make the average citizen's life better, has been identified by any of them, in any forum.

Assuming, that is, you exclude "benefits" involving
  • free rainbow coloured flying unicorns
  • magic money trees
  • BLUE PASSPORTS.
Hello Gertie,

Iím a leaver and am content that Brexit will make my life better. But then I live a different life to you and so I doubt you would see any merit in any pros I might offer. As to how Brexit will impact the average citizen I couldnít begin to say as I suspect that as far as quality of life is concerned there is no such average citizen.

As a Remainer, could you perhaps explain to your average citizen how remaining will improve their quality of. Life.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 21:14
  #16340 (permalink)  
 
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If you have three people shouting at you the best thing to do is to go to another pub.
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