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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 16th Oct 2018, 15:38
  #16181 (permalink)  
 
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John Bercow to step down as speaker next Summer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45880134

10 years is far too long in that job IMO. Being objective, he has introduced some welcome modernisation to the role, but he has also been far too controversial for the wrong reasons. The best speakers have the respect of the whole house, regardless of political affiliation. In that respect, he has not been a success.
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 15:46
  #16182 (permalink)  
 
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The "doomers and gloomers" are not having a good time when things are not looking so gloomy:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45875599.
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 15:53
  #16183 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
John Bercow to step down as speaker next Summer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45880134

10 years is far too long in that job IMO. Being objective, he has introduced some welcome modernisation to the role, but he has also been far too controversial for the wrong reasons. The best speakers have the respect of the whole house, regardless of political affiliation. In that respect, he has not been a success.
ALL disgraced politicos should be publically executed on the Town Hall steps.

ORAC's post above -

Maria Miller, the Conservative chairwoman of the women and equalities committee, also called on Mr Bercow to consider his position, telling Buzzfeed: “This is a damning indictment of the leadership of the House of Commons, and that includes the Speaker.”

Would that be the same Maria Miller who ' cheated ' £90,000 of Parliamentary Expenses and then avoided Capital Gains Tax on the profit from selling the house that the £ 90,000 was used to buy ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_...xpenses_claims

How anyone can have faith and trust in any of them is beyond me.
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 16:56
  #16184 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
John Bercow told to quit over report into sex pest MPs
Gosh, this couldn't possibly be due the fear that Bercow might actually allow a real debate on #brexit, and hence the need to get someone more compliant into the chair PDQ, now, could it.
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 17:21
  #16185 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Gosh, this couldn't possibly be due the fear that Bercow might actually allow a real debate on #brexit, and hence the need to get someone more compliant into the chair PDQ, now, could it.
Unlikely....

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/j...cker-5hgxmkhrx
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 18:45
  #16186 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Here's one pal: We know materially more now than we did on the 27th of June 2016. We now know what a catastrophic outcome no deal represents for the UK. We now know what two years of Tory infighting looks like, placing party above country at all costs. Into the bargain, that infighting tells us explicitly no one knew what they were voting for. We know now of a daily & growing chorus of warnings from all sections of the business (f*ck 'em) community It's plainly insufficient to argue leave/remain was on the ballot & therefore it's a done deal. It's nothing like a done deal & cannot ever be one because & this is the real kicker - There is by definition no way of being outside of the institutions that abolish borders without creating borders. If anyone had thought about Theresa's red lines & where they would lead, then it is to that inescapable conclusion.

All of those taken in the round add up to a betrayal of the will of the people, which is a crap argument anyway before you start getting into material consequences & modified outlooks. No, what the Conservative & Unionist party owes us is an apology for hawking an undefined & undeliverable fantasy that existed entirely in the heads of a small cabal of right wing Tory ideological zealots. Yet, a part of me hopes they get their no deal & have to swim in the sewage they created, trade with the protectionist states they venerated so much, face the Irish & take the legacy they so richly deserve.

See you in ten years.
I guess you were out of the country during the referendum campaign.

The Conservative and Unionist Party did not hawk anything. There were effectively 2 camps - Vote Leave and Vote Remain. Both camps were cross party alliances.

But donít let facts get in the way of your tribal hatred.
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 19:03
  #16187 (permalink)  
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Well thatís got to hurt a bit......

https://www.conservativehome.com/pla...an-brexit.html
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 19:54
  #16188 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Well thatís got to hurt a bit......

https://www.conservativehome.com/pla...an-brexit.html
CBA to read all that tiny print, but I do know that "clean brexit" is code for "no deal", and that's exactly where we're heading, so WTF is he whining about?
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 20:33
  #16189 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
CBA to read all that tiny print, but I do know that "clean brexit" is code for "no deal", and that's exactly where we're heading, so WTF is he whining about?
You think so ??

Much as I'd like to see the EU saddled with a ' No Deal ' to prick their bubble, I'm not sure that PM May has the balls to do a WTO.Brexit.

She was a Remainer before and during the Brexit campaign, and seems to be still, so I'm expecting the ' Brexit in name only ' conclusion.

After which -

Barnier will be awarded the Knights Cross with Oak Leaves of the EU - and appointed as Junker's successor.

Barbie's Ken will take over from Frau Fatarse as the EU's de facto leader - President of France is just a stepping stone in his ambitions and anybody able to even name another German politician ??

The EU will expand to include Serbia, Moldova and Macedonia - maybe even Albania and, eventually, Ukraine

And the UK will have the most left wing Government in Europe.

Sad....Very sad....
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 21:18
  #16190 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
The EU will expand to include Serbia, Moldova and Macedonia - maybe even Albania and, eventually, Ukraine
Sitting in a pub in Kosovo not that long after the war ended one of the kids said that all this arguing about independence and recognition and so on was a waste of time - when Kosovo and Serbia were both in the EU then everybody would be European and nobody would care about this nationalism any more.
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 03:41
  #16191 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post

All of those taken in the round add up to a betrayal of the will of the people, which is a crap argument anyway.

See you in ten years.
Ah, a rapturous welcome back for a JB stalwart !.........still "Playin in a Travellin Band " ( with acknowledgments to C.C.R here ) by any chance ?

No matter, it would be churlish to dwell on the past, thus, in a far more contemporary vein , yourself, and many others, will be delighted to read today's Excess headlines....

And it's nice to see no mention on here as to the ever intensifying debacle known as Universal Credit.......that's for poor people who should have worked harder at school as the JB societalscenti would opine, but it's decidedly relevant to Treeza and those whom it affects.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-45884550

Here's Treeza's current leadership status......

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...t-plan-cartoon
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 03:59
  #16192 (permalink)  
 
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everybody would be European and nobody would care about this nationalism any more.
Winston Churchill expressed similar sentiments in Zurich in 1946 - he even spoke of a 'United States of Europe' ...
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 05:02
  #16193 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by reynoldsno1 View Post
Winston Churchill expressed similar sentiments in Zurich in 1946 - he even spoke of a 'United States of Europe' ...
But he didn't want the UK to be part of it.
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 07:15
  #16194 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
I can understand the frustrations of ' First Past The Post ' electoral system - as you say, most constituencies are a no-contest depending on the social background of the electorate in each constituency. We own a couple of properties in Henley ( and yes, we're quite a bit out of pocket with the £ Exchange Rate since 2016 ) and Hell will freeze over before there is ever anything other than a Conservative MP.

But ' Proportional Representation ' also has its faults - too many Coalition Governments have either fallen over the years ( think Italy ) because of too many policy differences between the parties in the Coalition, in which case nothing gets done that needs to be done ( again, think Italy ) or have meant too many compromises between the parties and major policies ( which many voters might have specifically voted for ) in the different parties' manifestos have to be dropped or ignored for the Coalition to survive - think the LibDems and Tuition Fees which I am sure wa 90% of the reason for their wipe-out in 2015.

Even worse for Remain / EU supporters, after the 2015 General Election, UKIP would have had about 80 MPs with Proportional Representation, and the current balls-up with BREXIT wouldn't even have happened. It would have been Article 50 delivered and a curt ' Bye Bye ' which would have been in the best interests on absolutely nobody.

It's that UKIP vote - which was almost 13 % - which should have woken up the blockheads in Brussels who should have listened to Cameron instead of treating him like something of a traitor or something stuck on the bottom of their shoes.
For the sake of democracy it's important that there is an electoral system that ensures that so far as is possible, every vote really does count.

As I understand it, the French system has an initial vote (on a Sunday - a much more sensible day than a Thursday!) but if no one candidate on the ballot paper gets 50% + 1 vote, then there is a run off between the two highest polling candidates a couple of weeks later. I can see that this system isn't perfect either, it does ensure that the electorate is forced into making a choice between the top two, and ensuring that every vote does count, even if in the second ballot people will be voting for which of the candidates the "dislike least" rather than the one that they actually wanted to vote for. i have never heard in our media how this system goes down with French voters. Do they think it is more democratic than FPTP or PR? Are there calls for change in the French system?

I agree that UKIP would on paper have been in a stronger position had their share of the cote been translated into seats in a PR system, but of course what we don't know is how the UKIP vote, or indeed the popular vote for the other parties would have been effected by a PR system. Obviously from my (remain) perspective a big presence by UKIP in parliament would have been abhorrent, but I am more interested in having a fair system than any down, or upsides from my own political standpoint. If democracy is not to degenerate into electing extremists something has to change.
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 07:30
  #16195 (permalink)  
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ATNotts, in the first Police &Crime Commission vote, where people actually bothered to vote, a fair number put None of the Above. I think NOTA should also be a voting option, especially with a French system. If NOTA gained sufficient votes then the vote should be declared Null and completely new candidates should stand.

I quite agree about a monkey getting elected in some constituencies. There is also trend of voting for a 'name'. It would have been unthinkable to vote against a minister at one point though there have been exceptions where big guns failed as Ed Balls found and Dave avoided finding out.
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 07:36
  #16196 (permalink)  
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https://www.conservativehome.com/the...r-leaving.html

Daniel Hannan: The proposed Brexit terms represent a deal worse than either staying or leaving.
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 08:32
  #16197 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
https://www.conservativehome.com/the...r-leaving.html

Daniel Hannan: The proposed Brexit terms represent a deal worse than either staying or leaving.
Someone else who seems to think that the EU could and should modify its principles to suit a non-member.

For good or ill, the UK decided to leave. The EU are saying goodbye. They have 28 members now and soon they will have just 27. That's all there is to it.
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 08:55
  #16198 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Someone else who seems to think that the EU could and should modify its principles to suit a non-member.

For good or ill, the UK decided to leave. The EU are saying goodbye. They have 28 members now and soon they will have just 27. That's all there is to it.
And they are even bending over backwards to help the UK have an easy transit out of Europe - problem is that our politicians are still living in the 19th century (one of them probably in the 18th!!) and they just don't appear to understand that when the UK says "jump" the EU doesn't reply in unison "how high!!".

I still believe there will be an agreement reached between the UK and EU if for no other reason than to avoid the almost inevitable debacle that will follow with Ireland if they don't - and it's important to remember that a "no deal" Brexit will be, on a practical level, as disagreeable to the DUP and the people of N.I as anything that's already on the table. The best deal for Ireland (the North and The Republic) is what the people of Northern Ireland voted for - remain, but that wish isn't about to be granted.
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 10:18
  #16199 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Sitting in a pub in Kosovo not that long after the war ended one of the kids said that all this arguing about independence and recognition and so on was a waste of time - when Kosovo and Serbia were both in the EU then everybody would be European and nobody would care about this nationalism any more.
That, of course, is the Eurocentric wet dream. The idea that people are first and foremost fundamentally European and that once within the warm and benevolent embrace of the EU theyíll quickly forget any previous national allegiance. Sorry, but itís baloney. Some of those historic rivalries are so deep rooted and bitter that it will take more than a Blue and Yellow flag to heal them.
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 11:05
  #16200 (permalink)  
 
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The absence of understanding of the significance of national identity by those embedded within the European project is the major issue that I think will cause it to unravel, sooner or later. I strongly suspect that the unwillingness of some in the UK to accept losing their own nationality and government, which is the ultimate aim of the European project, lies at the heart of a lot of the anti-EU sentiment we've seen.

My view is that the EU would be a really great option IF it stepped back from wanting to create a replica of the USA, with individual member nations being reduced to subsidiary states with no real control over their own destiny. The common market was a damned good idea, as was the idea of having common standards, to make free trade between members easier.
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