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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 17th Sep 2018, 20:14
  #15741 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
I think we all remember Aunty Christine's last round of dire predictions in the run up to the referendum, surely only a simpleton would be citing her?
IMF shows poor track record at forecasting recessions
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Old 17th Sep 2018, 20:28
  #15742 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
... surely only a simpleton would be citing her?
A simpleton was citing her!
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Old 17th Sep 2018, 20:52
  #15743 (permalink)  
 
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And who could forget this one -

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-forecast-to-2

It's from The Guardian, so must have been correct

On the other hand, the BBC chooses to make a ' Big Deal ' out of the UK' growth falling to ' only ' 1.5% post - Brexit, although the BBC must have deemed this one as ' not newswortjy '

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1K92FN
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 05:59
  #15744 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
I think we all remember Aunty Christine's last round of dire predictions in the run up to the referendum, surely only a simpleton would be citing her?
That's very kind of you to mention Christine Lagarde because it allows a simpleton to offer this clip from last nights C4 News.

Obviously the lady in question is at a severe disadvantage with her day job in comparison to the JB untapped wealth of economic expertise, plus she's French and therefore foreign..... and we know the standing foreigners are held in on here, and, to compound her lack of credibility, she's also female !....the latter fact alone is more than sufficient to warrant disdain and derision from the JB chaps.

Sadly, as a simpleton I am more inclined to put my faith in the expertise and predictions of the MD of the IMF than those kind souls currently composing the first page of the next definitive resource for all aspiring economists, the "JB Economics for Dummies "......soon to be serialised in a "yours to pull out and keep ! " exclusive offer in a collaborative venture between the Mail and Excess .

https://www.channel4.com/news/imf-sa...age-uk-economy

Here's a little depiction of matters as they stand....

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...arning-cartoon

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 18th Sep 2018 at 06:21.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 07:15
  #15745 (permalink)  
 
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K'n'C, I presume you actually watched the C4 article? At 2:11 it all gets to be rather more balanced.

Past performance is no indicator of future performance as they used to say.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 07:59
  #15746 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
K'n'C, I presume you actually watched the C4 article? At 2:11 it all gets to be rather more balanced.

Past performance is no indicator of future performance as they used to say.
You may be amazed to learn that I did actually watch the piece last night, possibly because I watch C4 News as a matter of course and have been known to post relevant links on here with regard to various topics hence this latest offering.

And yes, the bit at 2.11 is interesting......I think that's something called pragmatism ....being a simpleton I could, of course, be wrong in my interpretation here.

However, with your commendable attention to detail. you seem to have strangely missed the "dignified silence " prior to giving a considered response to the question about the "R" word.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 08:30
  #15747 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
However, with your commendable attention to detail. you seem to have strangely missed the "dignified silence " prior to giving a considered response to the question about the "R" word.
Personally I think it was probably a bit of indigestion, nothing more significant than that.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 10:41
  #15748 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
Now you're being disingenuous, there is always room for further negotiation.
From the Times this morning...
The European Union is insisting on cast iron guarantees that Britain will not attempt to reopen the terms of any Brexit deal after it has been signed, confidential diplomatic notes reveal. The Times has learnt that, in a rebuff to Michael Gove, Brussels is preparing to demand that Theresa May makes “credible” assurances that any deal will not be unpicked by her successor.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 12:47
  #15749 (permalink)  
 
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To me that is the biggest incentive yet for no deal. In a business would you sign any contractual agreement that precluded you from future renegotiation? That had no term and termination clauses? Of course not.

In fact leaving without a deal seems the most likely option now. Parliament will vote down any form of the Chequers agreement that May comes back from Brussels with, and we will leave by default with no deal in March. That isn't the end of the world, but it could have been avoided by going with the Canada plus plus deal from the start that David Davis was working on and which the EU were happy to accept.

Personally I think the EU instransigence and posturing is increasing the support for no deal anyway.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 14:58
  #15750 (permalink)  
 
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The European Union is insisting on cast iron guarantees that Britain will not attempt to reopen the terms of any Brexit deal after it has been signed, confidential diplomatic notes reveal. The Times has learnt that, in a rebuff to Michael Gove, Brussels is preparing to demand that Theresa May makes “credible” assurances that any deal will not be unpicked by her successor.
There they go with their ridiculous nonsense again, how on earth in a democracy can a sitting government give guarantees of what a future government will or wont do?, the EU Dictators seem to have forgotton what democracy is, they are however soon to have a lesson on how world works outside their crumbling little club.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 16:11
  #15751 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
Because any future deals will not be done under 'Brexit' but normal negotiations.

I don't believe anyone actually thinks that whatever is decided in the next few months will never again be open to further talks and amendments. Its just yet more continuation of project fear.

Meanwhile the BBC have shown a news report today about the amount of Polish people that have moved back to Poland recently. The country is actively encouraging it and has the lowest unemployment in a long time. The cities are booming and families are being reunited. The BBC of course put a Brexit spin on it and tried to report it as a bad thing but it sounds like a good outcome to me from all sides.
At times, your faith in the future and rose coloured visions can be touchingly naïve ......if you don't mind me saying so.

How, for example, would you define a "normal " deal in the context you refer to given there are, as yet, no precedents for fairly obvious reasons that we are aware of and hence what terms and conditions have been imposed or will be imposed later. .

There are, and have been for some time, numerous organisations not, shall we say, placing their implicit trust in Treeza. Why should that be ?

And finally, with your understated enthusiasm to rid the UK of those ( Mail devotees impression ..damned immigrants ! ) can we take it you will be first in the queue next year to fill one of the many vacancies the agricultural sector has been increasingly concerned about not filling as, erm, the sources of labour won't be gracing our green and ever more septic isle for reasons that seem to have escaped you.

This may help......

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...istle-politics
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 17:50
  #15752 (permalink)  
 
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... Brussels is preparing to demand that Theresa May makes “credible” assurances that any deal will not be unpicked by her successor.
The British political system just does not work that way: any future parliament is free to 'unpick' anything. Parliament in sovereign in British politics (and when free of the EU this will become more definite again). That is one of the problems with the EU: they fail to understand democracy.

Guy Veridiotstadt once passed a comment in their 'pseudo' parliament that he could see that the British 'Common Law' legal system would be incompatible with the 'Code Napoleon' legal system. Of course it would be incompatible! Something developed under centuries of democracy would never easily be compatible with something imposed by a blood-thirsty dictator! But I suppose if you haven't had such a long history of democracy you don't have the 'cultural background' to understand the clear differences. Britain is best off being free from being dragged down by the EU.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 18:21
  #15753 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
Are you trying to say that no countries have trade deals with the EU? We will be in the same position unless the Brexit talks gives us a better deal than others. Either way it will not be binding forever. That would be unacceptable from both sides.

A

I knew you would take the bait, the reality however is that these people are choosing to go home because their country is booming. This is a good thing. Your assumption that all Polish are out in the fields picking fruit and vegetables however betrays your underlying bigotry.
True, other countries do have deals with the EU, it's just that they may not be quite as beneficial as the ones we currently enjoy and are unlikely to be reprised after say March next year.

I find the last comment worthy of complete derision, seriously, given I've long been an advocate of immigrants and immigration to the UK so how you have decided I'm now a bigot is something I really cannot work out. Oh, as for "bait ". sadly, you may need to renew your memory stick because you've certainly been an advocate of the "send them home ! " fraternity here on JB in the past. It's a side effect of being a simpleton, remembering those whose comments may come back to haunt them later.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 19:14
  #15754 (permalink)  
 
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Those people that come here do so for the big money
As the Malawian Minister of Health said.

"There are more Malawian doctors in Manchester than there are in Malawi.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 19:15
  #15755 (permalink)  
 
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The BBC of course put a Brexit spin on it and tried to report it as a bad thing but it sounds like a good outcome to me from all sides.
I must have seen a different report. The one I saw was very well balanced and expressed both sides of the story very well.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 23:06
  #15756 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
...

Its the same with this whole 'All immigrants are doctors and nurses here to help our NHS' claptrap. The small number that are in that category are more needed back home. We take poor countries trained professionals who are badly needed there and we hoover them up rather than training people ourselves. This is not and never will be a good thing to do. Those people that come here do so for the big money, a capitalist idea and they are held up by the left as some kind of heroes. It is just another example of the virtue signalling rubbish.
and
Originally Posted by Fareastdriver
As the Malawian Minister of Health said.

"There are more Malawian doctors in Manchester than there are in Malawi.
All these people who 'bleat' on about how we 'need' all these immigrants to keep our NHS going should be hanging their heads in absolute shame:
Who the hell do we think that we are to be depriving all those countries of all their qualified health-care personnel in order to satisfy our greedy need to have them here. What about the people who need their services in their own home countries?

There is absolutely nothing 'altruistic' in any of this, it is all pure and simple greed: Greed on the part of those immigrants wanting the higher earnings and quality of life that they can enjoy here and greed from the part of this country wanting to entice them away from their own needy home countries for our own selfish needs.

The claims from so many on the left that we 'need' these immigrants for our NHS is disgusting. Especially as, considering the time that is takes to get many of these health-care personnel fully trained from 'scratch' is about the time since we last had a Labour government and much of the time since then has been taken up recovering from the financial mess left by that Labour government, the shortages that we have are entirely due to the utter incompetence of that Labour government.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 23:15
  #15757 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
The claims from so many on the left that we 'need' these immigrants for our NHS is disgusting. Especially as, considering the time that is takes to get many of these health-care personnel fully trained from 'scratch' is about the time since we last had a Labour government and much of the time since then has been taken up recovering from the financial mess left by that Labour government, the shortages that we have are entirely due to the utter incompetence of that Labour government.
The Tories haven't done any better - like Labour they won't create the needed medical school places because they think it's easier to just import doctors. I know at least one kid who wanted to be a doctor, but on discovering what it took to get into medical school (basically spending the entirety of your teenage years volunteering in a hospice or somesuch) he junked that idea and is now a software salesman.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 06:05
  #15758 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by rogerg View Post
I wait to see KnCs reply
Always happy to respond to such requests.

For reasons only Mystic is aware of, the response seems to concentrate exclusively on Polish workers. There is but one terribly inconvenient flaw with this impassioned support for the Poles and Poland.......notably that immigrants come from other countries. This more expansive understanding of matters is helpfully explained in this link....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...sory-committee

Back to the UK peasantry then and, as we know, the "caring " Tories have long been noted for their social spending largesse thus Treeza is now carrying on that fine tradition. The fact neither she, nor they, will be around for when this latest benevolence is offered to the electorate may have some bearing on matters as in another Gov't can be conveniently blamed if said expenditure doesn't quite materialise as currently promoted.......and please note one of the classic examples of Tory hypocrisy concerning the status of the occupants of such dwellings.......or quite where the money will come from.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45569453

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 19th Sep 2018 at 06:18.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 07:52
  #15759 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
The Tories haven't done any better - like Labour they won't create the needed medical school places because they think it's easier to just import doctors. I know at least one kid who wanted to be a doctor, but on discovering what it took to get into medical school (basically spending the entirety of your teenage years volunteering in a hospice or somesuch) he junked that idea and is now a software salesman.
I don't disagree with you. But that is the future. I was referring to the present situation and the disgusting bleating that there is from the left on 'how badly we need these immigrants' without the slightest thought about how we are 'plundering' the resources of those countries from which we are taking health-care personnel to the detriment of the people in those (often poorer) countries.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 08:06
  #15760 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
I must have seen a different report. The one I saw was very well balanced and expressed both sides of the story very well.
They generally do, but any sniff of negativity is pounced upon by extreme Brexiteers (many of who lurk here) as evidence that BBC News is biased, when in reality it is probably the least biased of any news media outlet in the UK.
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