Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 17th Sep 2018, 10:27
  #15721 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 54
Posts: 911
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Well lets have a think here. Suppose a business has been trading with a major supplier for a number of years until, one day, said business decides this supplier is no longer needed..........
A quite dreadful analogy.

Putting aside the incorrect assumption that the EU are simply a supplier and the UK simply a consumer, no one with any commonsense is suggesting we will cease trading with the EU post Brexit. Only the advocates of Project Fear are claiming that we will pull up the drawbridge and completely isolate ourselves from the EU.
Andy_S is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 10:37
  #15722 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 548
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
A short time after ceasing trading, said embryonic solo business is appalled to become aware that it's glaringly obvious leaving is having a damaging effect on the profits and thus they decide to approach said major supplier with a view to restoring trade........which the major supplier duly considers of course, but, this time, on the terms and conditions that are far removed from the beneficial ones previously enjoyed by the smaller, and now desperate if not quite destitute, business.
That sums up in a nutshell why nobody should be wasting any intellectual capacity in trying to reverse the result. That phrase 'we are where we are' means we can't as a nation go back to the R27 and say 'oops sorry we were wrong'. The UK has to make this work. The EU needs to make this work too, else they will not receive their divorce settlement and that will severely reduce their ability to meet their commitments.
Harley Quinn is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 11:47
  #15723 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 945
Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
A quite dreadful analogy.

Putting aside the incorrect assumption that the EU are simply a supplier and the UK simply a consumer, no one with any commonsense is suggesting we will cease trading with the EU post Brexit. Only the advocates of Project Fear are claiming that we will pull up the drawbridge and completely isolate ourselves from the EU.
Well I'm terribly sorry the analogy didn't meet with your erudite approval although as this condemnation comes from somebody who seemingly lacks the acumen to understand that issues for internal consumption are, generally, kept private and not broadcast across mainstream media, then it's understandable as to why you failed to understand the content.

Let me phrase it more in more simplistic terms for you. When we leave the EU, true, we will continue to trade, it's just that the terms and conditions we currently enjoy will no longer be applicable. Terms and conditions can be quite useful really.....the UK finance and service sectors and their relationship with consumers springs to mind here....., for those able to dictate them that is......
Krystal n chips is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 14:11
  #15724 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 349
Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
If you really do believe that once we leave we will never again be able to carry out any negotiations with the EU or it's member countries ever again then please do let us know.
As regards "it's (sic) member countries", you will find as the USA already has that you cannot make trade agreements with member countries, only with the EU as a whole. And to get any new agreement you will need a proposal that is satisfactory to all 27 members. Good luck with that.
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 14:22
  #15725 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 548
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
And to get any new agreement you will need a proposal that is satisfactory to all 27 members. Good luck with that.
Are you suggesting the EU will refuse to negotiate a deal with the UK ever?
That implies that their intention is to punish the UK for taking a democratic decision.
With friends like that who needs enemies?
Harley Quinn is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 14:25
  #15726 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 349
Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
Are you suggesting the EU will refuse to negotiate a deal with the UK ever?
That implies that their intention is to punish the UK for taking a democratic decision.
With friends like that who needs enemies?
I am suggesting that it will be as hard to negotiate a new deal with the EU as it has been to get the present one. How has that been going?
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 14:49
  #15727 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 548
Sallyann it's not been going well since Cameron tried to renegotiate the UK membership in 2015.

Last edited by Harley Quinn; 17th Sep 2018 at 15:13.
Harley Quinn is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 16:09
  #15728 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 349
Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
Sallyann it's not been going well since Cameron tried to renegotiate the UK membership in 2015.
You confirm my point.
If, and it's still a big if, we get an agreement with the EU before next March there is no point in thinking we can improve the deal later on.
Gove's suggestion that we could do so is simply an attempt at sweetening the bitter pill that he hasn't beaten the EU into submission as promised.
Just as there is no round two of referendum, there is no round two of negotiation.
​​​​​
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 16:39
  #15729 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,680
Would you not envision further negotiations post -apocalypse based on the new reality? As we import more than we export there is greater potential for the EU lose than gain.

Returning to food, would it be any great hardship to forego Spanish strawberries since we have enjoyed better English ones since April. Raspberries from England and Scottish ones yet to appear. Had some delicious cherries from the USA a couple of weeks ago and almost as good from Canada this week.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 17:00
  #15730 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 945
Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
But why are you and other remainers automatically jumping to the conclusion that any new agreements will be both, worse than we have now and never up for renegotiation?

Do all the remainers truly believe that the UK can never prosper outside of the EU? Do you have such little faith or belief in our own leaders, both political and in business? Do you also have such high regard for those in similar positions within the EU? If so why exactly?
To answer your question, bearing in mind I have, in another post, confirmed I am a fully accredited simpleton , the short answer to having any faith or belief in our political leaders, and certainly the current Gov't....strangely.....is a resounding No...Non...Nein ...just to demonstrate my multi lingual talents..... and affinity for the EU.

Business is slightly different because not all management are incompetent even if this is a prerequisite for many and some have the foresight to actually plan ahead plus they have their share options and pensions to consider.

Now, I'm no international economist as you may have gathered, but, I am aware of those who are......and who may not be conversant with the JB economicscenti whose knowledge surpatheth all understanding...... as has been demonstrated many times.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45546785


Just to digress to another of your favourite delusions, not the one about us all logging on to work from home I should add, there's a report due on Thursday / Friday which may or may not meet with your approval .....and may certainly involve the public sector and those accursed unions. We shall see.
Krystal n chips is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 17:02
  #15731 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 548
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Just as there is no round two of referendum, there is no round two of negotiation.
​​​​​
Now you're being disingenuous, there is always room for further negotiation.
I am happy to say it does not appear to be going well because I believe that to be true, but frankly that's because a significant number of people in the UK and its government have been desperately trying to tie the negotiators hands behind their backs.
Now hearing reports that the Chancellor is at it again. When will we realise the Treasury's predictions have been seriously off the mark for over a decade.
Harley Quinn is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 17:32
  #15732 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,798
Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
I don't agree, much of the nonsense going on at the moment is aimed at both punishing us for trying to leave and stopping others going down the same route. If this was only down to negotiating trade deals that are good for both sides then things would & eventually will be, very different.

We are free to negotiate with whatever countries we wish. It is those that will remain in the EU that are restricted.
Look, it's nothing to do with "punishment", Brexiteers are simply ramping that one up so they can blame anyone but themselves and Brexit voters when the balloon goes up.

Fact is we are leaving the EU, and the EU has rules. So far everything that the UK government has come up with (and for that matter the Boris / Bone wing of the Conservative party) has involved having cake and eating it. If it were possible to cherry pick the "nice bits" of the EU and opt out from the less nice bits, then everyone would think, "wow, that's a good idea" - I could see the likes of the USA and Russia fancying joining if that were possible!

The only potential "cake and eat it" solution is the EEA, which would be quite compatible with the referendum result, but the government has drawn so many red lines, which they refuse to fudge, that it simply ins't an option. Remember, the UK voted to the the European Union - not any other grouping. If May gets anything like a good agreement from her negotiations then I think she'll have achieved a very good result, taking everything into account, but the EU as a body will have to make risky (for them) sacrifices to give us that outcome.
ATNotts is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 17:34
  #15733 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 72
Posts: 795
From the lack of relevant comment here, I am assuming nobody listened to Mrs May on the Today programme this morning. Well, one of us did. And one of the things she said to that awful toady Nick Robinson was "..and we will no longer pay huge amounts into Europe and this can be spent on the NHS"! Don't believe me? Watch Panorama this evening.
KelvinD is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 17:54
  #15734 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 548
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Now, I'm no international economist as you may have gathered, but, I am aware of those who are......and who may not be conversant with the JB economicscenti whose knowledge surpatheth all understanding...... as has been demonstrated many times.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45546785
I think we all remember Aunty Christine's last round of dire predictions in the run up to the referendum, surely only a simpleton would be citing her?
Harley Quinn is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 19:14
  #15735 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: A little south of the "Black Sheep" brewery
Posts: 394
Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
I think we all remember Aunty Christine's last round of dire predictions in the run up to the referendum, surely only a simpleton would be citing her?
IMF shows poor track record at forecasting recessions
Trossie is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 19:28
  #15736 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: A little south of the "Black Sheep" brewery
Posts: 394
Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
... surely only a simpleton would be citing her?
A simpleton was citing her!
Trossie is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 19:52
  #15737 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Hyeres, France
Posts: 1
And who could forget this one -

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-forecast-to-2

It's from The Guardian, so must have been correct

On the other hand, the BBC chooses to make a ' Big Deal ' out of the UK' growth falling to ' only ' 1.5% post - Brexit, although the BBC must have deemed this one as ' not newswortjy '

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1K92FN
Hussar 54 is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 04:59
  #15738 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 945
Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
I think we all remember Aunty Christine's last round of dire predictions in the run up to the referendum, surely only a simpleton would be citing her?
That's very kind of you to mention Christine Lagarde because it allows a simpleton to offer this clip from last nights C4 News.

Obviously the lady in question is at a severe disadvantage with her day job in comparison to the JB untapped wealth of economic expertise, plus she's French and therefore foreign..... and we know the standing foreigners are held in on here, and, to compound her lack of credibility, she's also female !....the latter fact alone is more than sufficient to warrant disdain and derision from the JB chaps.

Sadly, as a simpleton I am more inclined to put my faith in the expertise and predictions of the MD of the IMF than those kind souls currently composing the first page of the next definitive resource for all aspiring economists, the "JB Economics for Dummies "......soon to be serialised in a "yours to pull out and keep ! " exclusive offer in a collaborative venture between the Mail and Excess .

https://www.channel4.com/news/imf-sa...age-uk-economy

Here's a little depiction of matters as they stand....

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...arning-cartoon

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 18th Sep 2018 at 05:21.
Krystal n chips is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 06:15
  #15739 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 548
K'n'C, I presume you actually watched the C4 article? At 2:11 it all gets to be rather more balanced.

Past performance is no indicator of future performance as they used to say.
Harley Quinn is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 06:59
  #15740 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 945
Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
K'n'C, I presume you actually watched the C4 article? At 2:11 it all gets to be rather more balanced.

Past performance is no indicator of future performance as they used to say.
You may be amazed to learn that I did actually watch the piece last night, possibly because I watch C4 News as a matter of course and have been known to post relevant links on here with regard to various topics hence this latest offering.

And yes, the bit at 2.11 is interesting......I think that's something called pragmatism ....being a simpleton I could, of course, be wrong in my interpretation here.

However, with your commendable attention to detail. you seem to have strangely missed the "dignified silence " prior to giving a considered response to the question about the "R" word.
Krystal n chips is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.