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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 13th Sep 2018, 10:11
  #15701 (permalink)  
 
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I think the major difference is the age of the people being attacked. All the examples PDR1 gives are adults (with the possible exception of Tony Blair's son, age 17-18?)unlike Mr Rees-Moggs children all of whom are 10 or under. The comments which went on the line of "your daddy is a horrible person" which may or may not be true are a very low way of attacking any public figure. Couldn't they summon up the nerve to argue the toss with J- R-M himself? I think they are pathetic cowards.
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 10:55
  #15702 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
The point is that none of them were public figures in their own right - the only reason they were of interest to the press was because they were family of a public figure. There were no press rants about the millions of OTHER kids who got pissed after their A-levels, or the hundreds of fathers of non-public figures who had been members of the communist party in the 50s. They were only public figures "by proxy", just like JRM's kids, and so the comparison is valid. So (as usual) you are suffering a bout of testicular verbosity.

The claimed fact is proven fake.

PDR
An analysis of the characters you have (unwisely) chosen as examples totally demolishes your argument.

Ralph Milliband, despite being given sanctuary from the Nazis in the UK, spent the rest of his life trying to destroy the culture and structure of British society. He infected his sons with the same disease.

Cherie Blair has a long list of controversies, dodgy property purchases and lobbying Hillary Clinton on behalf of Qatari royalty, to name but a few.

Blairs son was arrested for a chargeable offence, drunk and incapable at an age when he shouldn't have been drinking.

Mark Thatcher sought to trade on his mothers name and got caught out.

Will Straw was set up by one of his own friends to a Labour supporting newspaper while selling drugs, the possession of which is an offence even before he tried pushing them.

Keep digging, you'll never reach the bottom.
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 19:49
  #15703 (permalink)  
 
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Meanwhile in other news - Here's an article from someone who's clearly not a big fan of "Economists for Free Trade" or their recent press release (approved my Mr Rees-Mogg). Choice quotes include:

It is hard to find a single accurate sentence in the entire thing. It is so full of legal, economic and logical misunderstanding that it is genuinely easier to highlight the sections of it which are true.
And, when talking about WTO rules concerning non-discrimination:

The authors either know this and are liars, or they don't and are idiots.
The brexit elite, lying again. Who'd have thought it...

PDR
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 21:00
  #15704 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Meanwhile in other news - Here's an article from someone who's clearly not a big fan of "Economists for Free Trade" or their recent press release (approved my Mr Rees-Mogg). Choice quotes include:



And, when talking about WTO rules concerning non-discrimination:



The brexit elite, lying again. Who'd have thought it...

PDR


If you want to post links to left wing anti-Brexit sites, I'm absolutely sure that you won't mind people posting links to pro-Brexit sites...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10...-owen-paterson

Remoaners still spreading Project Fear..

Who would have thought it....
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 21:38
  #15705 (permalink)  
 
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Well that's one approach. Alternatively you could read the article and discuss its content. But you won't, of course, because brexit supporters never do. They just jeer at anyone who dares to draw their attention to inconvenient facts.

Or perhaps you might comment on how the UK will benefit from the protection of WTO rules when Dirty Donald is essentially shutting down the WTO by refusing to ratify any new judges for its enforcement tribunal (without a means of enforcement it is functionally useless). We are currently down to four WTO judges - a minimum of three is mandated for a case, and they cannot have connections with either party to the case so a pool from a wide range of countries is needed. They are appointed only with the consent (ratification) of all WTO member states and for a fixed term, so in refusing to ratify new judges Dirty Donald will destroy the WTO by the end of next year and the UK will be left out in the cold.

But then that's just another inconvenient fact, so no doubt you'll just jeer at that as well.

PDR
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 21:53
  #15706 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Well that's one approach. Alternatively you could read the article and discuss its content. But you won't, of course, because brexit supporters never do. They just jeer at anyone who dares to draw their attention to inconvenient facts.

Or perhaps you might comment on how the UK will benefit from the protection of WTO rules when Dirty Donald is essentially shutting down the WTO by refusing to ratify any new judges for its enforcement tribunal (without a means of enforcement it is functionally useless). We are currently down to four WTO judges - a minimum of three is mandated for a case, and they cannot have connections with either party to the case so a pool from a wide range of countries is needed. They are appointed only with the consent (ratification) of all WTO member states and for a fixed term, so in refusing to ratify new judges Dirty Donald will destroy the WTO by the end of next year and the UK will be left out in the cold.

But then that's just another inconvenient fact, so no doubt you'll just jeer at that as well.

PDR

Hey....

You're the one who just wants to post a link to a left wing, anti-Brexit website and claim it's the truth.

I merely did the same, except in my case a right wing, pro-Brexit web site and without the sneering.

Let's move on....
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Old 14th Sep 2018, 09:07
  #15707 (permalink)  
 
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More brexit cr*p

Brexit may cause property prices to crash
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45516678

Brexit UK licences may not be valid in EU
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45512152

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45511297

No mention that the same rules will apply and things may happen to the EU as well both at home and in the UK though, which means they need sorting tit for tat
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Old 14th Sep 2018, 09:30
  #15708 (permalink)  
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You have to admit, that hard hat makes Treeza look quite stylish really. .....

However, because there is a surfeit of sensitive souls on here, and heaven knows what you are paying per annum to your therapists in this respect, I will politely refrain from making the analogy between the winning voter demographic ......and the depicted crash test dummies.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...otices-cartoon
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Old 14th Sep 2018, 11:10
  #15709 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
What a non-story full of 'whatifery'. And we pay our TV licence for them to come out with that cr*p!!
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Old 14th Sep 2018, 19:24
  #15710 (permalink)  
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https://order-order.com/2018/09/14/m...ht-harassment/

This week a number of MPs received anonymous threats to kill them and their families. Below is taken from the Mumsnet chatroom, and gives an insight into the targeting of MPs’ families:

Thing is, MPs get targeted at their homes quite a lot. This was rare because it was filmed.

And this article has numbers lower than reality as not MPs responded.

DH is an MP. My kids are not allowed to answer the phone, or answer the door. We have CCTV to check before we open the door. We had panic buttons installed & our home is on a police register. We have a fire-bomb proof letter box. I had to explain all this to the kids. I had to explain what happened to Jo Cox.

Yesterday an email threatening to kill MPs and their children was sent to lots of MPs.

I’m alone at home with the kids during the week. It can get scary. Other MPs wives have had people hammering on the door shouting abuse in the middle of the night.

No matter what you think of the MP or their policies, involving their kids is shit. …


And we’re small fry. Most of you would probably never have heard of DH. We’ve not had many death threats, and we’re low profile.

High profile people get a whole extra layer of abuse. (And more security & more CCTV etc.) If the death threats against family get severe and are considered imminent, there might be extra measures like reinforced bedroom doors for the kids in case of intruders. And we get police advice on what to do if we’re followed etc.......
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Old 16th Sep 2018, 04:40
  #15711 (permalink)  
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Given the reverence he is afforded on here, here's a somewhat irreverent depiction.......it's called satire less any confusion may arise.....chaps.

Of course, moving ones hedge funds may simply be an option to ensure the best personal returns and who can blame him ....not that any form of financial crash or turbulence could possibly be imminent now that we, the UK that is, are at " T minus 6...... and counting "

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...europe-cartoon
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Old 16th Sep 2018, 06:24
  #15712 (permalink)  
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...e-pm-cvqnz00wh

Ruth Davidson: ‘I never want to be PM’

Pregnant Scottish Tory leader reveals history of self-harm and suicidal thoughts

Ruth Davidson has ruled out ever running for the Tory leadership, revealing that she values her mental health too highly to seek the role of prime minister.

In an interview with The Sunday Times Magazine, the head of the Scottish Conservatives today reveals that her teenage years were plagued by self-harm, suicidal thoughts and bouts of depression that resembled a “smothering black blanket over my head”. During the interview, she pulled up her sleeve to reveal her arms were crisscrossed with a lattice of self-harm scars.

Ruling out an attempt to succeed Theresa May, Davidson said: “You have to want it, and I don’t want to be prime minister.” Asked if she would “ever” run, she replied: “No. I value my relationship and my mental health too much for it. I will not be a candidate.”........



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Old 16th Sep 2018, 12:47
  #15713 (permalink)  
 
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If only some other politicians would be similarly honest and principled. Labour are voting against May’s Brexit plan, as they were always going to, whatever was in it: who cares what happens to the country so long as Jezza gets a crack at No 10? Sadiq now wants to rerun the referendum. A pity he can’t spare any time to deal with the crime wave that has erupted on his watch.
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Old 16th Sep 2018, 14:30
  #15714 (permalink)  
 
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Will that pain in the arse publicity seeker Gina Miller return to court to insist that the Labour Party must vote on the deal based on its content?

She insisted parliament should have the final say in Brexit and as a result we now find the politicians playing ‘let’s bring down the government games’ instead.

I won’t hold my breath!
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Old 16th Sep 2018, 19:21
  #15715 (permalink)  
 
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Gina is speaking at #ldconf at 11:00 tomorrow. There's a fair chance it'll be on the Parliament channel if you want to see for yourself what she's got to say.
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Old 16th Sep 2018, 19:58
  #15716 (permalink)  
 
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I see that after telling us for a couple of years that Brexit will be wonderful, Michael Gove is now accepting that it will be a compromise and it will be up to a future PM to try and renegotiate.
I can just hear the laughter from Brussels at the thought of the UK coming begging for another try.
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Old 16th Sep 2018, 20:58
  #15717 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post

The threat of short term hardship, if it happens should not be a deciding factor in something as important and long lasting as Brexit.

Easy to say I suppose if one is a wealthy chap with oodles of dollers in off shore accounts. Not so easy for the rest of us with a a couple of pensions and a cat.
If Rees Mogg or Boris lose 90% of their wealth they will still be millionaires. The rest of us will be begging on the streets.
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Old 17th Sep 2018, 07:58
  #15718 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I see that after telling us for a couple of years that Brexit will be wonderful, Michael Gove is now accepting that it will be a compromise and it will be up to a future PM to try and renegotiate.
I can just hear the laughter from Brussels at the thought of the UK coming begging for another try.
I think this is purely for internal Tory consumption. Give is trying to bring the anti-Chequers mob inside by suggesting that the first priority is to complete Brexit, and that once that's secure we will have opportunities to move further away from the EU in the future.
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Old 17th Sep 2018, 09:21
  #15719 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
I think this is purely for internal Tory consumption. Give is trying to bring the anti-Chequers mob inside by suggesting that the first priority is to complete Brexit, and that once that's secure we will have opportunities to move further away from the EU in the future.
If it was purely for internal consumption, he wouldn't have made a statement to be broadcast in the public domain.....now would he. Plus, as has already been mentioned by Sallyann, what sort of terms do you think a future PM could extract from the EU once the UK is no longer a member?.......to save you pondering this hypothesis too deeply, how about the square root of sweet ( rude word ) all.

You also seem to forget Gove is a Boris aspirant when it comes to duplicity, as well as leaving a trail of ministerial role disasters trying to emulate Grayling in his wake, in that he awoke one night with a dream, probably accompanied by another dream of the moist and sticky variety, in which he was destined to lead the UK. Thankfully, this was only a dream, however, he subsequently metamorphosed into a fervent environmentalist no less......although this could possibly have been influenced by his wife who writes for a rag that has singlehandedly removed the curse of the plastic bag from the planet.
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Old 17th Sep 2018, 10:14
  #15720 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
I'm no fan of Gove but did anyone actually think the above was not the case? Of course we will continue to negotiate with the EU after Brexit, just as numerous countries that were never part of the EU have always and continue to negotiate deals. This isn't about still trying to iron out the Brexit deal but ongoing normal negotiations same as we will be doing with other countries and others, including the EU, will want to do with us.



If you really do believe that once we leave we will never again be able to carry out any negotiations with the EU or it's member countries ever again then please do let us know. I can see why having a literary diet from only the Guardian might give you that impression though.
Well lets have a think here. Suppose a business has been trading with a major supplier for a number of years until, one day, said business decides this supplier is no longer needed and they can now produce what they need internally. Plus the terms with this supplier are mutually beneficial. However, thanks to the fabled incompetence of UK "management " this smaller business simply tells the major supplier to basically f-off, we don't need you any more so yah boo sucks ! .

A short time after ceasing trading, said embryonic solo business is appalled to become aware that it's glaringly obvious leaving is having a damaging effect on the profits and thus they decide to approach said major supplier with a view to restoring trade........which the major supplier duly considers of course, but, this time, on the terms and conditions that are far removed from the beneficial ones previously enjoyed by the smaller, and now desperate if not quite destitute, business.
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