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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 11th Sep 2018, 07:54
  #15661 (permalink)  
 
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Lord Sugar was on GMB earlier floating the ridiculous idea that, if you subtracted the Brexit voters who are supposed to have been swayed by the 350 million "lie", and added them to the Remain vote, the outcome would have been different.

A decent journalist would have come right back at him with the question, "If the Remain voters hadn't fallen for the lie that the UK was better off in a corrupt, undemocratic and dictatorial EU, would the result have been even greater for Brexit?" But he was talking to two Remainers, Morgan and Reid, not decent journalists.

Sugar made his fortune selling shoddy crap to the gullible. With his support for the EU, he is still at it.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 09:14
  #15662 (permalink)  
 
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The old crew are in limbo with JC at the helm
The number of 'old crew' and other moderates likely far outweigh the Corbyn supporters, and are biding their time. So I'm told by those that know better than I.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 13:30
  #15663 (permalink)  
 
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"Biding their time": Seriously? Decades of proud Labour history have already been reduced to little more than a racist protest group united only by class-hatred. Biding their time until when??
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 13:50
  #15664 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Lord Sugar was on GMB earlier floating the ridiculous idea that, if you subtracted the Brexit voters who are supposed to have been swayed by the 350 million "lie", and added them to the Remain vote, the outcome would have been different.

A decent journalist would have come right back at him with the question, "If the Remain voters hadn't fallen for the lie that the UK was better off in a corrupt, undemocratic and dictatorial EU, would the result have been even greater for Brexit?" But he was talking to two Remainers, Morgan and Reid, not decent journalists.

Sugar made his fortune selling shoddy crap to the gullible. With his support for the EU, he is still at it.
You are right about Mr (Lord sic) Sugar, however, the difference in the two 'lies' quoted above is that the first lie is a proven fact. They did claim 350m could be used on the NHS. They lied.
The second 'lie' is nothing other than an opinion, one which isn't proven. The EU is no more corrupt than any 'sovereign' government, in fact I daresay its a good deal less corrupt than a few i could mention. The UK and USA are two cases in point. Undemocratic? Nonsense, It is more democratic as it uses a proportionally representative system, unlike the UK's archaic first past the post farce. . Dictatorial? Really? EU policy and regulations are agreed by participating nations after protracted negotiations. Doesn't sound like a dictatorship to me.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 14:33
  #15665 (permalink)  
 
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Sugar made his fortune selling shoddy crap to the gullible. With his support for the EU, he is still at it.
The EU can be credited (discredited) with a myriad things, but I really don't believe he either needs, nor gets, help from the EU to sell shoddy crap to the masses. They are generally pretty good at buying goods of such quality without any assistance / encouragement from Brussels!
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 15:13
  #15666 (permalink)  
 
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Can you still buy an Amstrad anything ?

Or just another ' I'll comment on anything if you ask me ' has been....

As for TURIN's comment -

You are right about Mr (Lord sic) Sugar, however, the difference in the two 'lies' quoted above is that the first lie is a proven fact. They did claim 350m could be used on the NHS. They lied.

Hmmm....Until the UK can stop paying squillions to the EU, how do you know there won't be 350 million available to the NHS ??

So not actaually ' a lie ' yet....Maybe in the future, but not yet....So like you said yourself...

The second 'lie' is nothing other than an opinion, one which isn't proven.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 15:18
  #15667 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
"Biding their time": Seriously? Decades of proud Labour history have already been reduced to little more than a racist protest group united only by class-hatred. Biding their time until when??
Hopefully until the Supreme Leader gets up to speak at the conference when 150 of them get up, resign the whip and walk out. That would prove to me that there is a god!
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 15:35
  #15668 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
You are right about Mr (Lord sic) Sugar, however, the difference in the two 'lies' quoted above is that the first lie is a proven fact. They did claim 350m could be used on the NHS. They lied.
The second 'lie' is nothing other than an opinion, one which isn't proven. The EU is no more corrupt than any 'sovereign' government, in fact I daresay its a good deal less corrupt than a few i could mention. The UK and USA are two cases in point. Undemocratic? Nonsense, It is more democratic as it uses a proportionally representative system, unlike the UK's archaic first past the post farce. . Dictatorial? Really? EU policy and regulations are agreed by participating nations after protracted negotiations. Doesn't sound like a dictatorship to me.
To add to what Hussar 54 has written above I'll move to your comment about EU democracy.
Three top (and there are plenty of others) EU bureaucrats are never out of the media, telling the UK and other states what to do. If you can tell us that you have had a chance to vote for Barnier, Verhofstadt or Juncker (or any of the others) then the E U is a democracy. If you can't, you are admitting the EU is not a democracy.
No more corrupt? Just type "EU corruption" into your browser and watch the torrent of proven examples flood across your screen.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 16:05
  #15669 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post

As for TURIN's comment -

You are right about Mr (Lord sic) Sugar, however, the difference in the two 'lies' quoted above is that the first lie is a proven fact. They did claim 350m could be used on the NHS. They lied.
Here we are again. The now famous 350m.

The bus did not say that 350m would be spent on the NHS. It was a very sly/clever bit of spin. The bus said "let's fund our NHS".

Some people just saw the figure and NHS and made the connection. Probably what the advertising company intended, without actually saying it. Thus leaving the BJ with a get out of jail card. But since TM has said that is the amount that the NHS will be increased to, seems it was correct. Although I wonder how many times the money has been promised to various projects.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 17:02
  #15670 (permalink)  
 
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Saw Jacob Rees-Mogg on the Jeremy Vine show this morning and what a refreshing change to see a politician that actually answers questions instead of the usual answer which begins with "What is important........." I reckon he could make a decent Tory Leader. What a complete oxygen thief Vine is though.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 17:23
  #15671 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Argonautical View Post
Saw Jacob Rees-Mogg on the Jeremy Vine show this morning and what a refreshing change to see a politician that actually answers questions instead of the usual answer which begins with "What is important........." I reckon he could make a decent Tory Leader. What a complete oxygen thief Vine is though.
The perfect Tory leader ?....well quite ! He is, after all hardly existing on benefits, comes from the right social background and is completely divorced from any form of understanding reality ......the perfect candidate ! The appeal to many here on JB is clearly irresistible and always has been.

Meanwhile, there's Boris castigating Status Quo .....
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 17:24
  #15672 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post

So not actually ' a lie ' yet....Maybe in the future, but not yet....
Just like Osborne's ' lie '. about unemployment...It might happen, it might not happen....


But no sign of it yet though....

Britain's unemployment rate has plunged to 4% ? a level not seen in more than 40 years
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 17:29
  #15673 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
... They did claim 350m could be used on the NHS. They lied.
...
The exact words were
"We send the EU 350 million a week
let's fund our NHS instead"

I am trying to work out how those words said that '350 could be used on the NHS'. The words are "let's fund" not "let's spend all that".

But then Remoaners are quite good at saying what isn't there.

And about people 'not knowing what they were voting for', I think that was all clearly laid out in the leaflet that the government sent out to all households before the referendum. If the Remoaners didn't read it that is their problem.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 17:43
  #15674 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
The exact words were
"We send the EU 350 million a week
let's fund our NHS instead"

I am trying to work out how those words said that '350 could be used on the NHS'. The words are "let's fund" not "let's spend all that".

But then Remoaners are quite good at saying what isn't there.

And about people 'not knowing what they were voting for', I think that was all clearly laid out in the leaflet that the government sent out to all households before the referendum. If the Remoaners didn't read it that is their problem.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 17:48
  #15675 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
That's obviously Photoshopped: BJs normally playing with his crotch
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 19:13
  #15676 (permalink)  
 
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If Brexit saves us 350 million a week, we'll give that to the NHS. That seems a reasonable ambition.

If Brexit costs us money, are we going to take it from the NHS? Where else will it come from?
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 19:24
  #15677 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
If Brexit saves us 350 million a week, we'll give that to the NHS. That seems a reasonable ambition.

If Brexit costs us money, are we going to take it from the NHS? Where else will it come from?

Good question.....

I've said on here before, but I believe that ALL countires, not just the UK, just tax the Googles, Amazons, Starbucks of the world a Revenue Tax....

1% of the Revenue in each country, not profit in each country, would help enormously.

As far as the UK goes, if there is a ' No deal Brexit ', does / would that mean that the Double Taxation agreements with other EU countries fall as well ? In the same way that the other thread about EASA would come into play ??

Just asking because I've no idea. But the Tax Havens of Netherlands and Luxemburg and, yes, Ireland, would all take an enormous hit if so.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 22:16
  #15678 (permalink)  
 
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Hmmm....Until the UK can stop paying squillions to the EU, how do you know there won't be 350 million available to the NHS ??
Because the government is already looking at increasing taxation or NI to fund the NHS after Brexit.

http://citywire.co.uk/money/hammond-...r-nhs/a1131142

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-report-warns/

Its all been a huge con. Regardless of the semantics from the Brexit faithful. BJ and the rest lied.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 04:45
  #15679 (permalink)  
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You get the impression Treeza's Christmas card list isn't exactly extensive and diminishing by the day it seems....which will save her a few quid when she's told to pop the keys through the letter box on the way out as the current residence is being repossessed due to her becoming redundant.

Which leads to the much adored J R-M who is a bit more subtle than Boris, not that this would be difficult, currently doing a credible blended impression of "The Godfather " and "Winston Wolf " with his proposed solution.......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45488136
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 07:35
  #15680 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
You get the impression Treeza's Christmas card list isn't exactly extensive and diminishing by the day it seems....which will save her a few quid when she's told to pop the keys through the letter box on the way out as the current residence is being repossessed due to her becoming redundant.

Which leads to the much adored J R-M who is a bit more subtle than Boris, not that this would be difficult, currently doing a credible blended impression of "The Godfather " and "Winston Wolf " with his proposed solution.......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45488136
If you are looking gleefully at the potential, if at present unlikely, fall of TM for any other motive than getting a Labour government then you should be careful what you wish for. If TM falls, and one of the extremists takes on the mantle of PM, without a new election then the likely outcome would be a very hard Brexit which would be no good for the UK (by just about everybody's opinion - aside the extremists, Patrick Winford and a few others) and certainly wouldn't satisfy the mass of the union movement, or a large, if not majority of the population at large.

However I might suggest that to win a decent majority in parliament, Labour need to junk Corbyn and his cronies since how ever pee'd off that rump of the population might be with a hard / no deal Brexit, many simply won't vote for him, especially the older demographic which a) normally votes; and b) can recall the economic disaster that were similar Labour policies back in the 60s and 70s.

TM getting through a pragmatic deal is the least worst option for the UK at the moment. Even she may not succeed, but the likes of JR-M or BoJo certainly won't. Best option is in all honesty a new (not a second) referendum on the terms of the final settlement (or non settlement) whatever is or isn't agreed, with a "remain" option on the ballot paper. There is now a groundswell across all parties for such a referendum; only those who fear losing are against such a referendum.
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