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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 9th Sep 2018, 11:09
  #15661 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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Chuka Umunna - The Labour Party is Instiutionally Racist.......

https://order-order.com/2018/09/09/c...onally-racist/
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 15:07
  #15662 (permalink)  
 
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"Boris dossier"? Seriously? That presumes someone is responsible for Boris's string of train-wrecks besides Boris himself. He is a reckless chancer and if the Tory party are daft enough to tout him seriously as PM material they're in serious trouble. Nearly as serious as the trouble Labour are in now with their own reckless chancer.

sallyann, they may not have minded the successful outcome being quietly known but not every buffoonish detail of their murderous antics in the worlds press. Is there any respect of the outcome of the Skripal fiasco which has benefitted Russia or Putin?

Last edited by ShotOne; 9th Sep 2018 at 16:10.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 18:28
  #15663 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
...
If it was intended to be a demonstration that Russian power will be exerted regardless of anything that the West can do to prevent it, then it was entirely successful. ...
If it wasn't for the fact that an innocent woman died, this 'raid' by the GRU would have been such a demonstration of bumbling incompetence that, other than era and geography, it would have had a justifiable place in the likes of an 'Allo, 'Allo script! 'Demonstration of power'? More like a demonstration of utter incompetence!

Where it has been very, very significant for UK Politics is the unified responses that there have been across the political divides, other than one rather outstanding 'misfit' with a beard.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 20:23
  #15664 (permalink)  
 
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Chuka Umunna - The Labour Party is Instiutionally Racist.......
Good old Chuka eh? Stirring up trouble along with the rest of the so called self-styled "Moderates", that his career has taken a complete nosedive since 2015 is by the by. The old crew are in limbo with JC at the helm, they can't leave, careerists as they are and nowhere else to go, so they stay and snipe from the sides.

Deselection is of course the furthest from their minds, after all, their constituents love 'em.

the GRU
It's now the GU, since some years ago. Having worked with quite a few reputed ex-members who were US Govt subcontractors on a previous US Task Order they aren't fools, they are sharp, focused and likely pretty ruthless. The Laurel and Hardy team we saw are likely as far from the GU as you can get.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 21:00
  #15665 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
If it wasn't for the fact that an innocent woman died, this 'raid' by the GRU would have been such a demonstration of bumbling incompetence that, other than era and geography, it would have had a justifiable place in the likes of an 'Allo, 'Allo script! 'Demonstration of power'? More like a demonstration of utter incompetence!
Once again you are assuming without any evidence that this was intended to be covert, and failed.
"It can't be an official Russian operation - they wouldn't be so incompetent". Have you not thought that this could be exactly what you are meant to think, supported by the multitude of alternative theories helpfully spread by the usual suspects?

Again, there is another thread for this.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 21:05
  #15666 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
. Is there any respect of the outcome of the Skripal fiasco which has benefitted Russia or Putin?
Well, it did allow Putin to make an election issue of supposed Western hostility towards Russia.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 07:54
  #15667 (permalink)  
 
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Lord Sugar was on GMB earlier floating the ridiculous idea that, if you subtracted the Brexit voters who are supposed to have been swayed by the 350 million "lie", and added them to the Remain vote, the outcome would have been different.

A decent journalist would have come right back at him with the question, "If the Remain voters hadn't fallen for the lie that the UK was better off in a corrupt, undemocratic and dictatorial EU, would the result have been even greater for Brexit?" But he was talking to two Remainers, Morgan and Reid, not decent journalists.

Sugar made his fortune selling shoddy crap to the gullible. With his support for the EU, he is still at it.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 09:14
  #15668 (permalink)  
 
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The old crew are in limbo with JC at the helm
The number of 'old crew' and other moderates likely far outweigh the Corbyn supporters, and are biding their time. So I'm told by those that know better than I.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 13:30
  #15669 (permalink)  
 
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"Biding their time": Seriously? Decades of proud Labour history have already been reduced to little more than a racist protest group united only by class-hatred. Biding their time until when??
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 13:50
  #15670 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Lord Sugar was on GMB earlier floating the ridiculous idea that, if you subtracted the Brexit voters who are supposed to have been swayed by the 350 million "lie", and added them to the Remain vote, the outcome would have been different.

A decent journalist would have come right back at him with the question, "If the Remain voters hadn't fallen for the lie that the UK was better off in a corrupt, undemocratic and dictatorial EU, would the result have been even greater for Brexit?" But he was talking to two Remainers, Morgan and Reid, not decent journalists.

Sugar made his fortune selling shoddy crap to the gullible. With his support for the EU, he is still at it.
You are right about Mr (Lord sic) Sugar, however, the difference in the two 'lies' quoted above is that the first lie is a proven fact. They did claim 350m could be used on the NHS. They lied.
The second 'lie' is nothing other than an opinion, one which isn't proven. The EU is no more corrupt than any 'sovereign' government, in fact I daresay its a good deal less corrupt than a few i could mention. The UK and USA are two cases in point. Undemocratic? Nonsense, It is more democratic as it uses a proportionally representative system, unlike the UK's archaic first past the post farce. . Dictatorial? Really? EU policy and regulations are agreed by participating nations after protracted negotiations. Doesn't sound like a dictatorship to me.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 14:33
  #15671 (permalink)  
 
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Sugar made his fortune selling shoddy crap to the gullible. With his support for the EU, he is still at it.
The EU can be credited (discredited) with a myriad things, but I really don't believe he either needs, nor gets, help from the EU to sell shoddy crap to the masses. They are generally pretty good at buying goods of such quality without any assistance / encouragement from Brussels!
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 15:13
  #15672 (permalink)  
 
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Can you still buy an Amstrad anything ?

Or just another ' I'll comment on anything if you ask me ' has been....

As for TURIN's comment -

You are right about Mr (Lord sic) Sugar, however, the difference in the two 'lies' quoted above is that the first lie is a proven fact. They did claim 350m could be used on the NHS. They lied.

Hmmm....Until the UK can stop paying squillions to the EU, how do you know there won't be 350 million available to the NHS ??

So not actaually ' a lie ' yet....Maybe in the future, but not yet....So like you said yourself...

The second 'lie' is nothing other than an opinion, one which isn't proven.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 15:18
  #15673 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
"Biding their time": Seriously? Decades of proud Labour history have already been reduced to little more than a racist protest group united only by class-hatred. Biding their time until when??
Hopefully until the Supreme Leader gets up to speak at the conference when 150 of them get up, resign the whip and walk out. That would prove to me that there is a god!
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 15:35
  #15674 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
You are right about Mr (Lord sic) Sugar, however, the difference in the two 'lies' quoted above is that the first lie is a proven fact. They did claim 350m could be used on the NHS. They lied.
The second 'lie' is nothing other than an opinion, one which isn't proven. The EU is no more corrupt than any 'sovereign' government, in fact I daresay its a good deal less corrupt than a few i could mention. The UK and USA are two cases in point. Undemocratic? Nonsense, It is more democratic as it uses a proportionally representative system, unlike the UK's archaic first past the post farce. . Dictatorial? Really? EU policy and regulations are agreed by participating nations after protracted negotiations. Doesn't sound like a dictatorship to me.
To add to what Hussar 54 has written above I'll move to your comment about EU democracy.
Three top (and there are plenty of others) EU bureaucrats are never out of the media, telling the UK and other states what to do. If you can tell us that you have had a chance to vote for Barnier, Verhofstadt or Juncker (or any of the others) then the E U is a democracy. If you can't, you are admitting the EU is not a democracy.
No more corrupt? Just type "EU corruption" into your browser and watch the torrent of proven examples flood across your screen.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 16:05
  #15675 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post

As for TURIN's comment -

You are right about Mr (Lord sic) Sugar, however, the difference in the two 'lies' quoted above is that the first lie is a proven fact. They did claim 350m could be used on the NHS. They lied.
Here we are again. The now famous 350m.

The bus did not say that 350m would be spent on the NHS. It was a very sly/clever bit of spin. The bus said "let's fund our NHS".

Some people just saw the figure and NHS and made the connection. Probably what the advertising company intended, without actually saying it. Thus leaving the BJ with a get out of jail card. But since TM has said that is the amount that the NHS will be increased to, seems it was correct. Although I wonder how many times the money has been promised to various projects.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 17:02
  #15676 (permalink)  
 
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Saw Jacob Rees-Mogg on the Jeremy Vine show this morning and what a refreshing change to see a politician that actually answers questions instead of the usual answer which begins with "What is important........." I reckon he could make a decent Tory Leader. What a complete oxygen thief Vine is though.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 17:23
  #15677 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Argonautical View Post
Saw Jacob Rees-Mogg on the Jeremy Vine show this morning and what a refreshing change to see a politician that actually answers questions instead of the usual answer which begins with "What is important........." I reckon he could make a decent Tory Leader. What a complete oxygen thief Vine is though.
The perfect Tory leader ?....well quite ! He is, after all hardly existing on benefits, comes from the right social background and is completely divorced from any form of understanding reality ......the perfect candidate ! The appeal to many here on JB is clearly irresistible and always has been.

Meanwhile, there's Boris castigating Status Quo .....
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 17:24
  #15678 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post

So not actually ' a lie ' yet....Maybe in the future, but not yet....
Just like Osborne's ' lie '. about unemployment...It might happen, it might not happen....


But no sign of it yet though....

Britain's unemployment rate has plunged to 4% ? a level not seen in more than 40 years
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 17:29
  #15679 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
... They did claim 350m could be used on the NHS. They lied.
...
The exact words were
"We send the EU 350 million a week
let's fund our NHS instead"

I am trying to work out how those words said that '350 could be used on the NHS'. The words are "let's fund" not "let's spend all that".

But then Remoaners are quite good at saying what isn't there.

And about people 'not knowing what they were voting for', I think that was all clearly laid out in the leaflet that the government sent out to all households before the referendum. If the Remoaners didn't read it that is their problem.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 17:43
  #15680 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
The exact words were
"We send the EU 350 million a week
let's fund our NHS instead"

I am trying to work out how those words said that '350 could be used on the NHS'. The words are "let's fund" not "let's spend all that".

But then Remoaners are quite good at saying what isn't there.

And about people 'not knowing what they were voting for', I think that was all clearly laid out in the leaflet that the government sent out to all households before the referendum. If the Remoaners didn't read it that is their problem.
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