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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 7th Sep 2018, 09:34
  #15641 (permalink)  
 
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(Gibberish, followed by a quote from the Gruinard -- guess who!! )

KelvinD: I settled down to watch the live coverage of the UNSC meeting on BBC News24. It was in full-flow with most Ambassadors having already spoken (so there should have been a clue that the Russians were 'not far off' with their turn) when the BBC suddenly decided that their voices were more important than those in the UN so they disrupted the coverage for 'comment', when it was the Russian Ambassador's turn to talk and his initial words had been missed. Once he had finished his 'rantings', the BBC decided that their voices were more important again and reverted to their own 'comment'... just as the US Ambassador started to talk, hence missing her opening comments. At that point I switched to Sky who gave uninterrupted live coverage of that UNSC meeting all the way until it was closed, including the additional replies by both the UK and Russian ambassadors. I would far rather hear what the real people have to say rather than have it interrupted by the BBC's opinions.

What stood out was the support for the UK. Kazakhstan looked very much as if they had been 'leant on' and possibly the same with Ethiopia? Did I read too much 'between the lines' on China's response (processes, procedures, 'further investigations', procrastination and non-commitment) that they would actually like to be able to get away with the same as the Russians had done therefore don't say anything that might block that opportunity?
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 10:14
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Did I read too much 'between the lines' on China's response (processes, procedures, 'further investigations', procrastination and non-commitment) that they would actually like to be able to get away with the same as the Russians had done therefore don't say anything that might block that opportunity?
I read it as 'Russian incompetence really pisses us off, but we don't slag them off here on principle (just like our usual stonewalling on DRK)'.
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 10:29
  #15643 (permalink)  
 
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Probably a very, very valid reading of their response! One of the things that has to stand out in this whole incident is the bumbling incompetence or the Russians.
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 12:30
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
Probably a very, very valid reading of their response! One of the things that has to stand out in this whole incident is the bumbling incompetence or the Russians.
Wherever did you get that idea? On the contrary the attack was done professionally, openly and nonchalantly, in full confidence that if detected it would simply be denied. Exactly the same as was done to Litvinenko.
The whole point was to demonstrate to all concerned that there was no way to escape if your number has been marked by Russia.
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 12:35
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Trossie: Thanks for the explanation. I came at it from the other end; my viewing began with the UK Ambassador's piece, followed by Peru and (I think) Equatorial Guinea. I decided it was going to be just a procession of various Ambassadors repeating more or less the same stuff in different languages. I found I had better things to do and therefore missed the Russian Ambassador!
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 16:45
  #15646 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Wherever did you get that idea? On the contrary the attack was done professionally, openly and nonchalantly, in full confidence that if detected it would simply be denied. Exactly the same as was done to Litvinenko.
The whole point was to demonstrate to all concerned that there was no way to escape if your number has been marked by Russia.
Professionally??!!!

They were 'comical' incompetents! Did they kill their target? NO! Did they avoid leaving a trail? NO! Did they avoid avoid it affecting innocent people (to avoid increasing the fingers being pointed at them)? NO! What a dithering, blithering pair of incompetents! Sure, the intention was to show that "we'll get you", but they didn't. They failed. They have shown themselves to be unprofessional idiots. They won't get arrested 'when they next leave Russia' as they won't leave Russia again. Ever. If they are still alive now.

The hornet's nest that this incompetence must have stirred up in the 'upper echelons' in Russia must be immense!!
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Old 8th Sep 2018, 09:17
  #15647 (permalink)  
 
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The only mistake, if you can call it that, is that the victim/s only came very close to death and didn't actually die. It's a moot point whether that was the agents' fault for not applying enough poison, or due to the victims being found in a public place and receiving prompt, excellent care.
Everything else worked like clockwork. The lesson has been very publicly served that traitors can be killed regardless of where they run.
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Old 8th Sep 2018, 10:56
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The poison was discarded where it would be picked up by ordinary people completely unconnected with the case. Indeed it's pure luck that many weren't killed. You say this wasn't a mistake? If you're right it was a deliberate attempt at random mass-murder.
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Old 8th Sep 2018, 11:17
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
The poison was discarded where it would be picked up by ordinary people completely unconnected with the case. Indeed it's pure luck that many weren't killed. You say this wasn't a mistake? If you're right it was a deliberate attempt at random mass-murder.
To have killed many people it would have to be spread widely. An established problem with chemical warfare. There was no attempt to spread it about. We are told it was dumped with rubbish behind a shop. Very likely it would have been collected and tipped in landfill if the unfortunate gentleman hadn't been rummaging.
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Old 8th Sep 2018, 12:20
  #15650 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jindabyne View Post
Plonker. But I suspect it's all tongue-in-cheek wind-up!
Sadly not, I believe he genuinely thinks his is the only opinion worth hearing.
I'm still waiting for him to post a link to a source other than the tax dodging Guardian with its 'spare us a bob for a cuppa char guv' begging letter after each article.
It's a shame he didn't try politics really, KnC would have been amongst people showing the same traits, now wouldn't that be an interesting echo chamber?
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 07:27
  #15651 (permalink)  
 
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If Theresa May does Boris Johnson’s divorce, he'll end up with a huge settlement and still be married afterwards.

Last edited by sitigeltfel; 9th Sep 2018 at 10:13. Reason: he'll instead hell!
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 09:23
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"Worked like clockwork.." Well let's recap, sallyann: Intended targets alive and (relatively) well, unconnected member of public dead and buried, could easily have been many more. Grinning pair of GRU hoodlums pictured at each step of their "secret" mission in every newspaper in the world leaving bloody footprints right back to Moscow. Russian spies unceremoniously booted out by the score from every civilised country, sanctions for the foreseeable. Russian ministers forced to make threadbare and increasingly ridiculous denials. I suspect Russian leadership doesn't share your view on the "success" of this mission and the GRU's comedy double-act will by now be on their way to the incinerator (not necessarily a figure of speech)!
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 10:24
  #15653 (permalink)  
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Boris Johnson sex dossier sparks Tory civil war

The Tory party was plunged into a bitter civil war over dirty tricks last night after it was revealed that Theresa May’s aides drew up a dossier on Boris Johnson’s sex life in an apparent effort to prevent him from becoming prime minister. The document, passed to The Sunday Times by a Conservative source, contains a catalogue of lurid allegations about Johnson’s sexual liaisons, quips from him about cocaine and damning assessments of his character. The 4,000-word “war book” began circulating in Westminster last week, just hours before it was revealed that Johnson and his second wife, Marina Wheeler, had separated and were divorcing.

The document was drawn up by one of May’s aides during the Conservative leadership election in 2016 when Johnson was seen as her fiercest rival. It was not used because his campaign imploded. The dossier was passed to this newspaper three days after two sources claimed that “black ops” attacks on Johnson were planned because he is leading opposition to the prime minister’s Brexit plan. Last night officials in Downing Street and Conservative campaign headquarters (CCHQ) categorically denied circulating the document or ordering any updating of the dossier. It said such claims were “offensive” and “100% untrue”.......

The paper was drawn up by Nick Hargrave, who served as deputy head of May’s policy unit at No 10 before joining the Portland PR firm last autumn. Hargrave’s name is listed as the original author in the document’s data files but there is no suggestion he was involved in distributing it last week. A senior Tory who received the paper last week said: “This was put together by May’s team to smear Boris. It’s their ‘war book’ on him.” A senior aide to the prime minister denounced what he called “an absolutely shocking and quite outrageous attempt” to smear May’s team and the Tory party chairman, Brandon Lewis. “It is genuinely offensive and categorically untrue that we have done anything to update this document. The suggestion that this was circulated, updated or briefed in any way by CCHQ or No 10 is a lie.”.......

Hargrave confirmed he had written the Boris dossier: “During the course of the 2016 Conservative leadership campaign, I was responsible for desk research,” he said. “Notes on opposing candidates are a fairly standard practice. I no longer work in politics and am thankfully no longer involved in the twists and turns of party leadership matters. I have been on honeymoon for most of the past fortnight.”.......

The disclosures unleashed a fresh round of fear and loathing in the Tory party, with Johnson at the heart of a round of backstabbing and intrigue before the party conference, where he will address an audience of 1,000 activists and denounce May’s plan for Brexit, the flagship policy from which her premiership now dangles.

Since Tuesday, sources in Westminster had been telling journalists that Tory chiefs had asked their own research department to investigate hard Brexit troublemakers, including Johnson — a claim that is categorically denied by Downing Street and Tory campaign headquarters. One source told The Sunday Times that a civil servant in No 10 had overheard May’s political staff discussing how to thwart Johnson’s attempt to derail her Chequers plan...... Brandon Lewis, the party chairman, strenuously denied ordering research into Johnson, let alone any “refresh” of the 2016 dossier. “That is genuinely offensive,” a No 10 source said.

The timing of a dossier charting the indiscretions of Johnson nonetheless appeared convenient for May’s allies, who feel the prime minister’s position is now under existential threat from him and his fellow Brexiteers. This weekend her allies were engaged in a round of fevered speculation over the identity of a woman whose involvement with Johnson, then foreign secretary, finally ended his marriage.......

Whatever ammunition Johnson has given his enemies, his friends are convinced that May’s team are out to get him. A source close to Johnson said: “We had heard that No 10 was planning to smear Boris on his personal life.” The stakes are high. Johnson is favourite to succeed May should her Brexit plan fail and the prime minister fall. Allies, MPs and ministers are divided over whether the new revelations will impede his passage to Downing Street......

Another close ally said: “At least you know what you are getting. People talk about politicians with skeletons in their closets. All Boris’s skeletons have skin and big tits and are walking around the West End.”.......
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 10:27
  #15654 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
"Worked like clockwork.." Well let's recap, sallyann: Intended targets alive and (relatively) well, unconnected member of public dead and buried, could easily have been many more. Grinning pair of GRU hoodlums pictured at each step of their "secret" mission in every newspaper in the world leaving bloody footprints right back to Moscow. Russian spies unceremoniously booted out by the score from every civilised country, sanctions for the foreseeable. Russian ministers forced to make threadbare and increasingly ridiculous denials. I suspect Russian leadership doesn't share your view on the "success" of this mission and the GRU's comedy double-act will by now be on their way to the incinerator (not necessarily a figure of speech)!
What you say only follows from your apparent assumption that the mission was intended to be entirely covert. Something that is entirely questionable.

If it was intended to be a demonstration that Russian power will be exerted regardless of anything that the West can do to prevent it, then it was entirely successful. It follows the same pattern as Ukraine, Syria etc where the inevitable international repercussions were simply brushed aside.

There is another thread for this discussion.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 11:09
  #15655 (permalink)  
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Chuka Umunna - The Labour Party is Instiutionally Racist.......

https://order-order.com/2018/09/09/c...onally-racist/
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 15:07
  #15656 (permalink)  
 
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"Boris dossier"? Seriously? That presumes someone is responsible for Boris's string of train-wrecks besides Boris himself. He is a reckless chancer and if the Tory party are daft enough to tout him seriously as PM material they're in serious trouble. Nearly as serious as the trouble Labour are in now with their own reckless chancer.

sallyann, they may not have minded the successful outcome being quietly known but not every buffoonish detail of their murderous antics in the worlds press. Is there any respect of the outcome of the Skripal fiasco which has benefitted Russia or Putin?

Last edited by ShotOne; 9th Sep 2018 at 16:10.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 18:28
  #15657 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
...
If it was intended to be a demonstration that Russian power will be exerted regardless of anything that the West can do to prevent it, then it was entirely successful. ...
If it wasn't for the fact that an innocent woman died, this 'raid' by the GRU would have been such a demonstration of bumbling incompetence that, other than era and geography, it would have had a justifiable place in the likes of an 'Allo, 'Allo script! 'Demonstration of power'? More like a demonstration of utter incompetence!

Where it has been very, very significant for UK Politics is the unified responses that there have been across the political divides, other than one rather outstanding 'misfit' with a beard.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 20:23
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Chuka Umunna - The Labour Party is Instiutionally Racist.......
Good old Chuka eh? Stirring up trouble along with the rest of the so called self-styled "Moderates", that his career has taken a complete nosedive since 2015 is by the by. The old crew are in limbo with JC at the helm, they can't leave, careerists as they are and nowhere else to go, so they stay and snipe from the sides.

Deselection is of course the furthest from their minds, after all, their constituents love 'em.

the GRU
It's now the GU, since some years ago. Having worked with quite a few reputed ex-members who were US Govt subcontractors on a previous US Task Order they aren't fools, they are sharp, focused and likely pretty ruthless. The Laurel and Hardy team we saw are likely as far from the GU as you can get.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 21:00
  #15659 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
If it wasn't for the fact that an innocent woman died, this 'raid' by the GRU would have been such a demonstration of bumbling incompetence that, other than era and geography, it would have had a justifiable place in the likes of an 'Allo, 'Allo script! 'Demonstration of power'? More like a demonstration of utter incompetence!
Once again you are assuming without any evidence that this was intended to be covert, and failed.
"It can't be an official Russian operation - they wouldn't be so incompetent". Have you not thought that this could be exactly what you are meant to think, supported by the multitude of alternative theories helpfully spread by the usual suspects?

Again, there is another thread for this.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 21:05
  #15660 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
. Is there any respect of the outcome of the Skripal fiasco which has benefitted Russia or Putin?
Well, it did allow Putin to make an election issue of supposed Western hostility towards Russia.
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