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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 21st Aug 2018, 16:32
  #15481 (permalink)  
 
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It's not often that Labour shadow ministers are taken seriously here. But if the message fits...
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Old 21st Aug 2018, 17:22
  #15482 (permalink)  
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Just reinforces that both the Labour And Conservative front benches are against a second referendum - and all the paid for campaigning and marches funded between now and October by George Soros are unlikely to lead to any change in policy.
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Old 21st Aug 2018, 20:11
  #15483 (permalink)  
 
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Britain extends lead as king of currencies despite Brexit vote

Leaving the European Union was supposed to deal a crippling blow to London’s position in global finance, prompting a mass exodus of jobs and business. But with eight months to go, London has tightened rather than weakened its grip on foreign exchange trading, a Reuters analysis shows.
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Old 21st Aug 2018, 20:57
  #15484 (permalink)  
 
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Cue the ‘but the bad bits about Brexit in the article actually demonstrate that Brexit will be bad, just like we keep telling you all:

Banks in Britain, including the London operations of global players, are moving some staff to European cities on expectations that they will the lose the automatic right to sell services to EU investors after Brexit.

Companies that run trading platforms, such as Thomson Reuters (TRI.TO) - the parent of Reuters News - and NEX Group (NXGN.L) are shifting parts of their businesses to Dublin and Amsterdam to prepare for life after Brexit.

The city’s tightening grip on forex trade does not prove London won’t suffer from Brexit, but it does underscore the attractiveness for banks of maintaining large international operations in the city, industry experts said.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 07:21
  #15485 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Groundbased View Post
Hang on a minute, just say that again . The EU should annex part of an independent country to address it's own problems (of its own making) with immigration. Do you support Russia's annexing of Ukraine in the same way? And this is supposed to be an organisation that espouses peace and democracy?
Two members of the EU (the UK and France) bilaterally and successfully destroyed a stable country in Libya, albeit one that was ruled (not governed) by a dictator we didn't like. The damage was done at that stage. It is unlikely Gadaffi would ever have permitted the trafficking of humanity through his country as has the dysfunctional "government" of Libya that has come about as a direct result of the actions of UK and France. In the situation that we have now, yes I would fully support some sort of processing area being set up in Libya, preferably with the support of that country; but if we can't get that - without.

Crimea is quite different, not dysfunctional, not suffering civil war. Whilst the population of Crimea is overwhelmingly ethnic Russian, and probably wanted to rejoin "Mother Russia" invasion and annexation was not the answer.

I wonder what your proposal would be to stop the mass migration from N.Africa, since once the migrants have arrived in EU waters we (the EU) have a responsibility at least process their asylum applications. The solution is to be found on the continent of Africa, not in Europe.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 08:01
  #15486 (permalink)  
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Two members of the EU (the UK and France) bilaterally and successfully destroyed a stable country in Libya
Stable? It was, IIRC, in the middle of a civil war......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Civil_War_(2011)
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 08:06
  #15487 (permalink)  
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Cue the ‘but the bad bits about Brexit in the article actually demonstrate that Brexit will be bad, just like we keep telling you all...
Those will be the offices in the European cities staffed with a handful of administrators to allow the actual trading, and high paid jobs and profits to continue to be located in London.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 08:17
  #15488 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Stable? It was, IIRC, in the middle of a civil war......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Civil_War_(2011)
Still more stable than it was after the UK and France had meddled in the affairs of the country.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 08:48
  #15489 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Two members of the EU (the UK and France) bilaterally and successfully destroyed a stable country in Libya, albeit one that was ruled (not governed) by a dictator we didn't like. The damage was done at that stage. It is unlikely Gadaffi would ever have permitted the trafficking of humanity through his country as has the dysfunctional "government" of Libya that has come about as a direct result of the actions of UK and France. In the situation that we have now, yes I would fully support some sort of processing area being set up in Libya, preferably with the support of that country; but if we can't get that - without.

Crimea is quite different, not dysfunctional, not suffering civil war. Whilst the population of Crimea is overwhelmingly ethnic Russian, and probably wanted to rejoin "Mother Russia" invasion and annexation was not the answer.

I wonder what your proposal would be to stop the mass migration from N.Africa, since once the migrants have arrived in EU waters we (the EU) have a responsibility at least process their asylum applications. The solution is to be found on the continent of Africa, not in Europe.
You're conflating trafficking, by which I assume you mean illegal and non-asylum based migration with displaced persons and refugees there. I agree that proper asylum processes are needed for genuine refugees. Firstly the EU member states should discourage trafficking and illegal migration by implementing coherent immigration policies that make it unrewarding for traffickers and undesirable for those paying traffickers to get to Europe.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 09:28
  #15490 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Those will be the offices in the European cities staffed with a handful of administrators to allow the actual trading, and high paid jobs and profits to continue to be located in London.
It would be foolish and highly disruptive to business for any major financial trader to attempt a sudden move to another country - particularly in the present climate of indecision over Brexit. They are all waiting.
The sensible banks have opened or extended their offices in other European cities so that they have bases to work from as and when they might decide to transfer their business.
If the UK is very lucky, we may be able to keep the majority of the banking operations here, but those other cities will be trying very hard to persuade them to move and not continue with split operations.
Much will depend on the future political stability of the UK, which at the moment looks very uncertain.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 12:49
  #15491 (permalink)  
 
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Much will depend on the future political stability of the UK, which at the moment looks very uncertain.
Indeed, especially with the right wing of the Tory party seemingly out to "out Momentum" Momentum by looking to tinker with the process for electing a Conservative leader to make it easier for an extremist like Rees Mogg to take control.

If that happens one wonders, seriously, who the sensible middle ground of the electorate could find to vote for; not Corbyn as he's far too left wing, and not a right winger from the Conservatives. I think it would make it all the more likely that significant numbers of MPs towards the centre of both Labour and Conservative parties would consider forming a new centrist party, and in such circumstances could provide the best opportunity for many years to create a new system, despite the first past the post voting system.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 13:35
  #15492 (permalink)  
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Two answers to that ATNotts.

Firstly there is no indication that is happening. Secondly there is no need to do it.

Thiugh it might Llow the wets and remainers such as Hague for their lack of support within the party.

https://www.conservativehome.com/the...elling-us.html

https://www.conservativehome.com/the...ince-2016.html
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 13:53
  #15493 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Two answers to that ATNotts.

Firstly there is no indication that is happening. Secondly there is no need to do it.

Thiugh it might Llow the wets and remainers such as Hague for their lack of support within the party.

https://www.conservativehome.com/the...elling-us.html

https://www.conservativehome.com/the...ince-2016.html
I'm sure that Labour would have given a much similar response when Momentum were getting the red feet under the party's table!
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 14:28
  #15494 (permalink)  
 
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I still don't rule out the possibility of a Labour government in 2022, if the present administration can last its full term. By then the effects of Brexit will be upon us, and even the strongest of Brexiteers seem to accept that there will be some initial pain.

I think the electorate will be looking for something, anything, that promises a fresh start. In the same way that they voted for a Labour government immediately after WW2. And there is no other alternative.
Yes the prospect of a Labour government is dreadful. But sometimes we have to think the unthinkable.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 14:30
  #15495 (permalink)  
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The error the PLP made was in allowing JC to be allowed on the ballot which went forward to the CLPs for a final ballot. That was an error they will never recover from.

The Conservative MPs are initially allowed to propose as many candidates as possible, but those with the least votes are eliminated until only 2 are left - which is what eliminated Boris last time, and will ensure both his, and JRM if he stood (though he has said he would not) through tactical voting.

So anyone sign8ng up to vote for either will be sorely disappointed when their ballot paper arrives.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 14:49
  #15496 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I still don't rule out the possibility of a Labour government in 2022, if the present administration can last its full term. By then the effects of Brexit will be upon us, and even the strongest of Brexiteers seem to accept that there will be some initial pain.

I think the electorate will be looking for something, anything, that promises a fresh start. In the same way that they voted for a Labour government immediately after WW2. And there is no other alternative.
Yes the prospect of a Labour government is dreadful. But sometimes we have to think the unthinkable.
Sally, I don't think it will be the effects of Brexit that will cause what you outline, I think it's likely for some other reasons though. Firstly the failure of this Government to deliver the proper, clean Brexit that they should have done will lead many former conservative voters to not vote at all in the next GE, they won't vote Labour or Lib Dem either. Secondly the abject failure of this Government to deliver on any other priorities during this recent period will drive people either not to vote or to vote for a change, health, prisons, roads, policing, immigration, defence the list goes on and on. Thirdly this Government is no different than a moderate Labour Government with its tax and spend policies, delivering the highest taxation rates seen for decades and a belief that raising taxes brings in revenue, despite continual Laffer curve evidence to the contrary. A good example being the North Sea Oil industry which has increased output, profits, and thus taxes paid since the 2016 budget when the Government inadvertently cut taxes on North Sea production and profits. Needless to say they are now considering putting them back up again.

Due to my third point many people will think that a Labour Government can't be that much worse and are more likely to vote for a change without realising quite how bad that would be. I'm not sure a centrist party would arise from that. Trying to be all things to all people leads to the kind of shower we've got now. The direction of travel appears to be more polarising to further left and right, we've seen less centrism in the US recently as an example.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 15:04
  #15497 (permalink)  
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From the new Statesman - the left wing equivalent of the Spectator.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ble-corbyn-MPs

Leaving Labour: why a party split is now inevitable

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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 07:10
  #15498 (permalink)  
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Looks like Jeremy Hunt is throwing his hat into the ring for the leadership. Could come down to a choice between him and Javid - and both desperately burnishing their claims to be brexiteers to gain membership votes......

https://www.politico.eu/article/jere...ithout-a-deal/

Jeremy Hunt: UK better off outside EU, even without a deal

LONDON — The U.K. will be “better off outside the EU,” even if it leaves the bloc with no deal, Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt said Wednesday.

In the latest of several recent statements on the desirability or otherwise of a no-deal Brexit, Hunt told https://www.axios.com/jeremy-hunt-united-kingdom-trump-tariffs-russia-e43a3789-aa14-4472-8bf3-05e3c12d676f.html that, despite backing Remain at the 2016 referendum, he was now of the view that the U.K. is best served by leaving, whatever the outcome of negotiations. Hunt has previously outlined how his https://www.politico.eu/article/jeremy-hunt-pragmatist-banking-on-brexit-theresa-may-downing-street/, but his comments on the no-deal scenario have varied. Last week he wrote on
that Britain “WOULD survive and prosper without a deal” after telling ITV that no-deal “would be a mistake we would regret for generations.”

In his latest interview, Hunt also heaped praise on his predecessor Boris Johnson, who resigned last month in protest at Theresa May’s softening of her Brexit stance. Johnson has “changed the course of British history through his campaigning for Brexit,” Hunt said. Asked if Johnson, who is Conservative Party members’ favorite to replace May, would make a good prime minister, Hunt said: “I don’t agree with him on everything but, you know, who knows for the future?”.......

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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 07:43
  #15499 (permalink)  
 
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Hunt?

That nonentity would be even worse than the current mediocre incumbent.

Which village idiot could possibly have suggested to him that he has leadership qualities? He even makes JC look dynamic.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 07:47
  #15500 (permalink)  
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Indeed. tM should have proven to the rest of the party MOs that longevity in a cabinet post does not provide an indication of suitability to fill the top seat.
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