Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 19th Aug 2018, 19:51
  #15441 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 68
Posts: 902
I see one of the founders of the clothing range Superdry is giving £1,000,000 to the Remain campaign.

Remainiacs will be heartened to hear that he made his fortune by paying Indian textile workers 28p an hour when the workers would have cost him £7.83 per hour if he had made the clothes in his home country, England.
sitigeltfel is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2018, 20:34
  #15442 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 60
It's not the Remain campaign, it's a vote on the final deal agreed with the EU on the terms of Brexit. As one who didn't vote last time because there was insufficient information to make a decision I would applaud that. I cannot of course say how I would vote because we still don't know the deal. What I can say though is making our own laws and passport colour would rank lower on the list than would considerations relating to trade and jobs.
Effluent Man is online now  
Old 19th Aug 2018, 20:39
  #15443 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 60
And now Ford are saying that they will "Take any action necessary to protect profits" after a massive fall in advance of a possible "No Deal" scenario. The implications of that for the UK are not good.
Effluent Man is online now  
Old 19th Aug 2018, 20:46
  #15444 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,198
It's not the Remain campaign, it's a vote on the final deal agreed with the EU on the terms of Brexit.
so the choice is accept the deal or exit without a deal then - Brexit, as you, already having been voted for.....
ORAC is online now  
Old 19th Aug 2018, 23:49
  #15445 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 60
Could you pose that question, if it was such, in English?
Effluent Man is online now  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 06:26
  #15446 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 938
Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
Of course we can rejoice! They will be our civil servants, not Brussels's civil servants. And what's far, far more important is that they will know that they owe their jobs to Brexit happening!
Given the variety of work applicable to the Civil Service, I've yet to see any location or occupation with " Funded by the EU " ..usually on a large sign with a blue background and yellow lettering, ...and some stars....prominently displayed outside, or inside, any Civil service establishment ....

Why do you think this might be ?.

But, thankfully, you kindly declined to state "Rejoice ! " three times ( in print ) with the same demonic fervour that this word was once dictated to the nation to comply with.

Far too many railway accident songs, so take yer personal pick here, to support this depiction....

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...leader-cartoon

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 20th Aug 2018 at 08:28.
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 08:11
  #15447 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,669
Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
I see one of the founders of the clothing range Superdry is giving £1,000,000 to the Remain campaign.

Remainiacs will be heartened to hear that he made his fortune by paying Indian textile workers 28p an hour when the workers would have cost him £7.83 per hour if he had made the clothes in his home country, England.
The £1m that is apparently to be donated is to be used for conducting the most comprehensive ever survey of UK public opinion, and will endeavour to find out the level of support for Brexit now, as compared with 2016.

For that research to be valid it must be conducted properly, using a reputable research agency to carry out research, and allowing the research agency to use it's expertise to ensure the questions asked are posed as neutrally as is possible, not driven by the agenda of the client, that obviously would like to see an outcome where a decisive proportion of the population wants a rethink / referendum on the outcome of the negotiations on Brexit. If it is not the money will be wasted.

Recent polling evidence found that in around 100 Brexit voting constituencies opinion has shifted to remain; how unbiased that research was I don't know.

One thing is certain, hard Brexiteers are wetting themselves over the idea of the new research being done, as they fear the outcome might be a game changer hence they are railing against it being done. We will have to see how this plays out.

In the meantime it has become evident that the Transport Minister, Chris Grayling has absolutely no idea about how intra European trade works, and has no guidance to give hauliers, such as Brian Yeardley Continental, in the event of "no deal" other than that they are putting in place contingencies for turning the M20 into a truck park. As the boss of said haulier pointed out, if that happened his company would be bankrupt within 2 weeks. The arch Brexiteer Andrew Bridgen tries to suggest that hauliers could use Belgian or French ports instead of Calais / Dunkirk post Brexit, conveniently ignoring the fact (or being totally unaware) that those ports don't have the linkspan infrastructure to handle the ferries now in use on the short sea routes, and that applies equally to corresponding ports on the UK side of the Channel / North Sea. This discussed extensively on BBC R4 "The World this Weekend" yesterday lunchtime.

Unless the government start tackling these sorts of issues head on, the public are going to be staring over the precipice and asking themselves how we got into this mess, and what can be done to extricate ourselves from it. I know the answer to the first question (how we got here); I've no idea what the answer is to the second question.
ATNotts is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 08:29
  #15448 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 68
Posts: 902
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
The £1m that is apparently to be donated is to be used for conducting the most comprehensive ever survey of UK public opinion, and will endeavour to find out the level of support for Brexit now, as compared with 2016.

For that research to be valid it must be conducted properly, using a reputable research agency to carry out research, and allowing the research agency to use it's expertise to ensure the questions asked are posed as neutrally as is possible, not driven by the agenda of the client, that obviously would like to see an outcome where a decisive proportion of the population wants a rethink / referendum on the outcome of the negotiations on Brexit. If it is not the money will be wasted.

Recent polling evidence found that in around 100 Brexit voting constituencies opinion has shifted to remain; how unbiased that research was I don't know.

One thing is certain, hard Brexiteers are wetting themselves over the idea of the new research being done, as they fear the outcome might be a game changer hence they are railing against it being done. We will have to see how this plays out.

In the meantime it has become evident that the Transport Minister, Chris Grayling has absolutely no idea about how intra European trade works, and has no guidance to give hauliers, such as Brian Yeardley Continental, in the event of "no deal" other than that they are putting in place contingencies for turning the M20 into a truck park. As the boss of said haulier pointed out, if that happened his company would be bankrupt within 2 weeks. The arch Brexiteer Andrew Bridgen tries to suggest that hauliers could use Belgian or French ports instead of Calais / Dunkirk post Brexit, conveniently ignoring the fact (or being totally unaware) that those ports don't have the linkspan infrastructure to handle the ferries now in use on the short sea routes, and that applies equally to corresponding ports on the UK side of the Channel / North Sea. This discussed extensively on BBC R4 "The World this Weekend" yesterday lunchtime.

Unless the government start tackling these sorts of issues head on, the public are going to be staring over the precipice and asking themselves how we got into this mess, and what can be done to extricate ourselves from it. I know the answer to the first question (how we got here); I've no idea what the answer is to the second question.
Dunkertons views and comments on the EU and Brexit give a clear insight into whether his campaign for a second vote will be free of bias. It is a sad day if the campaign is willing to accept money from a man whose fortune is based on exploitation of cheap, third world, slave labour.
sitigeltfel is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 08:30
  #15449 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,198
ORAC is online now  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 09:00
  #15450 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,669
Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Dunkertons views and comments on the EU and Brexit give a clear insight into whether his campaign for a second vote will be free of bias. It is a sad day if the campaign is willing to accept money from a man whose fortune is based on exploitation of cheap, third world, slave labour.
I am not interested in where Dunkerton sits. Any campaign for a new vote would certainly not free of bias - no campaign ever was. However I am talking about psephology. If the questions posed in the poll that is apparently going to be carried out aren't neutral, the results of the research will be useless, and the money totally wasted.

I admire your concern about the wages and conditions of the people employed by Mr Dunkerton's business; but you not realise that unless you are an extremely wealthy person, most of the clothes on your back are manufactured in the far east, or Indian subcontinent by people being paid similarly. That is what "globalisation" is all about. I don't like it either, but we are where we are, and one consequence of globalisation is that nowadays the vast majority of the population can't afford to buy their clothes made by people working good wages, and working in pleasant conditions - even UK textile factories aren't exactly utopia.

None of this stops someone who has money from donating it to a cause in which they believe; or perhaps you only think that the moneyed classes who's opinions reflect yours should be allowed to do so?

As I suggested, Brexiteers are running scared of public opinion at the moment, largely due to the government's ineptitude. They apparently appear to believe that democracy is a one way street and the the people are not entitled to change their minds when they are in possession of the facts and / or have had a dose of reality. If they were not running scared then they would welcome the opportunity of a public vote on the final deal (or no deal).
ATNotts is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 09:04
  #15451 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,527
Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
Of course we can rejoice! They will be our civil servants, not Brussels's civil servants. And what's far, far more important is that they will know that they owe their jobs to Brexit happening!
Well if the civil servants in the U.K. see themselves as working “for” Brussels then that it is a foul up of the UK’s making.

I can certainly promise you the local fonctionnaires in our local prefecture (which flies the French flag) very much see themselves as being French, and working on behalf of the French State for the French people....
wiggy is online now  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 09:05
  #15452 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 335
Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Dunkertons views and comments on the EU and Brexit give a clear insight into whether his campaign for a second vote will be free of bias. .
Of course his campaign is biased. He wants to give people a chance to change their minds. Just as your bias is to deny them that ability.

It is a sad day if the campaign is willing to accept money from a man whose fortune is based on exploitation of cheap, third world, slave labour.
Adding a few more adjectives doesn't make that any more relevant than the first time you mentioned it. Indian wage levels are very low. Their workers are not slaves, and Dunkerton is one of many who export manufacturing jobs. Remind me where the Brexit supporting Dyson has his plastic appliances assembled?
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 09:10
  #15453 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 68
Posts: 902
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
I can certainly promise you the local functionaries in our local prefecture very much see themselves as being French, and working on behalf of the French State for the French people....
Every French "fonctionnaire", on their way into work, will have to walk under the EU flag flying alongside the tricolor above the entrance to their workplace.

Just to remind them who is the real boss.
sitigeltfel is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 09:40
  #15454 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,669
Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Every French "fonctionnaire", on their way into work, will have to walk under the EU flag flying alongside the tricolor above the entrance to their workplace.

Just to remind them who is the real boss.
Rubbish!! The real boss is the French government that has control over most of the aspects of governance for which the Prefecture is responsible. Is it a problem for employees of a Baden Wütemburg local government to have to "walk under" the flags of their state, and that of Germany??

I suppose it depends upon whether you have an open or a closed mind on Europe, or just how parochial one is. Problem is too many Brits are extremely parochial, and have mindsets embedded in the past, which they recall inaccurately through rose tinted glasses.
ATNotts is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 10:02
  #15455 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: In the circuit
Posts: 177
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post

Recent polling evidence found that in around 100 Brexit voting constituencies opinion has shifted to remain; how unbiased that research was I don't know.
I don't buy that. Possibly in some Leave voting constituencies some people's view might have changed to Remain. That doesn't equate to a change in outcome in the event of another vote. Anyway, I don't believe Brexiteers want to deny people that opportunity, they simply want the result of the previous democratic vote to be implemented in the way we were told it would be. Clearly and simply out of the SM, out of the CU as was clearly explained in the referendum campaign. Even Remainers that I know accept it is happening and just want the Government to get on with it.
Groundbased is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 10:04
  #15456 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 60
It would appear that those who favour capitalism red in tooth and claw do a rethink when the profits are being used for purposes that don't suit. There have been a whole slew of polls on the public view of Brexit conducted by neutral organisations and they tend to suggest that the result of 2016 has been reversed and it is now 52/48 for Remain.

The principal reason appears to be a fairly substantial move by non voters to Remain. Further evidence that many of us who were unmoved by the lies of Cameron or Johnson have now decided that the time has come to at least decide once the reality of Brexit is clear.
Effluent Man is online now  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 10:11
  #15457 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,527
Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Every French "fonctionnaire", on their way into work, will have to walk under the EU flag flying alongside the tricolor above the entrance to their workplace.

Just to remind them who is the real boss.
Oh good grief....

ATNotts - Well said.
wiggy is online now  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 10:20
  #15458 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,198
There have been a whole slew of polls on the public view of Brexit conducted by neutral organisations and they tend to suggest that the result of 2016 has been reversed and it is now 52/48 for Remain.
That’s what they said before the referendum. In fact I believe the advice to David Cameron on the night of the vote was to go to bed as they had a 10 point lead in the exit polls.

Just as pollsters blame “shy Tories”, there would appear to be a lot of “shy Brexiteers”. Hardly surprising the abuse and odium laid upon them in the MSM.

I would read the POLITICO story in my previous link, it’s very good.
ORAC is online now  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 10:27
  #15459 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 60
Then that begs the question : Why not hold a referendum on the final deal? From the Leavers POV the advantages are clear. With a second confirmation vote for Brexit we can all get behind the project and make it a resounding success!
Effluent Man is online now  
Old 20th Aug 2018, 10:33
  #15460 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,669
Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Then that begs the question : Why not hold a referendum on the final deal? From the Leavers POV the advantages are clear. With a second confirmation vote for Brexit we can all get behind the project and make it a resounding success!
Indeed, as the polls are quite clearly wrong, and still in reality (??) pointing towards Leave then bring it on, once the terms of our departure are known. Then if we still want to leave, brexit will, without a shadow of doubt mean BREXIT!

Of course Brexiteers don't believe such nonsense, they know support isn't what it was, and are fighting tooth and nail to deny the population the chance to accept they made a mistake, and undo it - if indeed that were to be the outcome. They are basically, as Mrs. Thatcher said, "frit".
ATNotts is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.