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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 5th Aug 2018, 10:39
  #15341 (permalink)  
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Both seem committed to that whose name we dare not speak. We desperately need a third party.
Bith main parties adhering to their general election manifestos - what an appalling state of affairs.........
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 10:52
  #15342 (permalink)  
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No anti-semitism in the Labour Party, because the anti-semites are not LBour party members - allegedly..........

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/l...lies-vgmqq32mf

Labour finds a way to let off ‘anti-semite’ Jeremy Corbyn allies

Labour high command has been accused of letting off allies of Jeremy Corbyn accused of anti-semitism by claiming that leading activists in the firing line are not even members of the party.

Labour against Antisemitism (Laas) has reported to the party more than 1,200 accusations of anti-semitic abuse by suspected Labour members over the past two years. In several cases, however, those with close links to the leadership have been exonerated because party bosses claim they cannot find evidence that they are party members, a claim it is difficult for Corbyn’s critics to contest.........

Among those surprisingly exonerated was Michael Calderbank, who tweeted a comparison between Zionists and Nazis and defended the former London mayor, Ken Livingstone, who said Hitler was a Zionist. In 2016 Calderbank wrote: “Ethnically exclusive forms of nationalism as exhibited by some (but not all) zionists DO echo Nazi Germany. Ken’s been hung out to dry.” He repeated the charge in a second tweet: “It’s true that far right strains of zionism echo the ethnically exclusivist nationalism of Hitler.” Yet when Laas reported Calderbank, Labour’s compliance unit replied: “We have been unable to identify the individual as a member of the Labour Party.”

This is surprising since in posts for Labour Briefing last year, Calderbank billed himself as “secretary of Brent Central constituency Labour Party”. Calderbank also used to work for John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, and has a Commons pass sponsored by Ian Lavery, the party chairman. He is also co-editor of the left-wing magazine Red Pepper and is listed in the register of MPs’ staff as a researcher for five trade unions.

Another who was let off was Alma Lucas. Activists claim she has been an active member of Garston & Halewood CLP. Its chairman is Steve Walker, who runs Skwawkbox, a pro-Corbyn website close to the leader’s office. Lucas attacked Luciana Berger, a Jewish MP, writing that she “is a traitor — she support[s] Israel before her own country”.

Another activist, Glenys Wright, declared on September 13, 2015: “I am now a fully paid up member of Labour.” In September the following year, on the occasion of Shimon Peres’s funeral, she denounced Zionists as “Zionazis” and said they were “doing exactly the same to the Palestinian people”.

Gary Walton, a member of the Labour Representation Committee, a powerbase for McDonnell, dismissed supporters of Israel as “apartheid-loving deviant melts”, a term of abuse for those who oppose Corbyn. He is listed on Twitter as secretary of the Paris and North East France branch of Labour’s international party, a position that would give him access to the membership database.

In each case Labour officials said they were unable to identify the accused as party members.........

Euan Philipps, a Laas spokesman, said: “It is deeply troubling that the Labour Party appears to routinely reject complaints against members on the grounds that they cannot locate their membership information. If Jeremy Corbyn wanted to check if Michael Calderbank was a member, he would only have to look across Portcullis House to see his friend and colleague wearing a parliamentary security pass sponsored by the chair of the Labour Party, Ian Lavery MP.........
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 11:05
  #15343 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Only if the lorry driver has successfully run the gauntlet of French farmers waiting to ambush him and destroy his cargo. Joined up EU?
And how often in the last 10 years has that happened. the French farmers are indeed "revolting" from time to time, but it is the truck drivers and fuel supplies that generally do more damage; but even then very few trucks are ever ambushed and their cargoes destroyed. Not to say that disruption to seamless European trade should tolerated, but the fact the French governments have been in the past unable / unwilling to sort the problems out proves that France is sovereign, and able to make and interpret it's own rules, just as the other members of the EU - which rather blows the "taking back control" nonsense out of the water!

To date I haven't seen the EU Commission calling other nations to intervene in French domestic politics.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 11:23
  #15344 (permalink)  
 
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Agreed..one minute the complaint is of an all controlling, all ruling EU dictating all and sundry, the next minute the gripe is that the EU isn’t joined up and that there are significant differences between countries...so which one is it?

(That said, French farmers can still be a bit of a PITA at times though).......
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 11:58
  #15345 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Agreed..one minute the complaint is of an all controlling, all ruling EU dictating all and sundry, the next minute the gripe is that the EU isn’t joined up and that there are significant differences between countries...so which one is it?
I believe Douglas Hurd once said we would fight tooth and nail to stop regulations that we don't like but once in force we would be equally positive in enforcement.

Our EU partners, OTOH, accept such regulations with demure and then ignore them.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 12:22
  #15346 (permalink)  
 
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And sometimes the UK government proposes and argues in favour of an EU Regulation or Directive (there is a difference) and then, when it is agreed and comes into force, denies all responsibility and blames 'so-called unelected bureaucrats' in Brussels. A very convenient way of deflecting any unpopularity at home!
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 13:54
  #15347 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
But what? May is in hock to the Tory Right, Corbyn to the left. Both seem committed to that whose name we dare not speak. We desperately need a third party.

The LibDems are still there - they got 7.9% support for remaining in the EU at last years election. The Parties proposing to leave the EU got 82.4% support.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 16:12
  #15348 (permalink)  
 
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Disingenuous to say the least . We know that more than half of Labour voters are pro Remain. After the shenanigans led by DD and now Raab C Brexit I would not be surprised if as many Tory voters are too.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 18:24
  #15349 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Disingenuous to say the least . We know that more than half of Labour voters are pro Remain.
Are you sure?. We keep getting told that Remain voters are far more educated than the rest of us yokels so did they really vote for a Party promising to leave the EU?
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 18:48
  #15350 (permalink)  
 
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Whatever else we know, we do know that Labour voters are now comprised largely of intellectuals. The Islington set probably have the highest academic qualifications of any political cohort. My experience of Tory councillors was that they largely comprised self employed "businessmen" who went bust fairly regularly. Whether academic qualifications help you navigate life and everyday matters is another question entirely. I always found both groups to be equally out of touch in many ways.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 19:57
  #15351 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
We know that more than half of Labour voters in London are pro Remain.
There, fixed it for you.

(Have you spoken to many Labour voters in, say, Sunderland?)
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 20:49
  #15352 (permalink)  
 
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Taking 100 as a base Labour voter support for Remain was 125. Lib Dem was 135 and Tory 87. (Populous)
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 21:55
  #15353 (permalink)  
 
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Can I ask a serious question? What are the arguments for staying in the EU? Honestly, I'm not being sarcastic but, being a long term eurosceptic, I may have been blinkered during the referendum campaign.

So please, could someone spell out the reasons for remaining?
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 00:10
  #15354 (permalink)  
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The leadership of the old Labour Party, now the Marxist Momentum, hasn't been about Corbyn for a long time. He is now nothing more than a Trojan Horse for John McDonnell, the self confessed Marxist, whose financial ideas of revenue raising and distribution can be gleaned from a read of the pages of the Labour Representation Committee, a group of which McDonnell was the co founder and is today the president.
As to Brexit, the çi devant Labour Party will be whipped to support whatever deal leads to a Brexit that will allow the party to save face with the unions. On no account though will the opposition party support a remain in the EU position. This is quite simply because, outside the EU, McDonnell, as either Chancellor of the Exchequer or the Prime Minister, will be able to initiate any tax raising polices that he sees fit and which confirm to his radical Marxist ideas. He would not be able to do this from the position within the EU in which Britain stands today.
The Marxists in Britain have played a long game for many years, such has always been the nature of that extreme political philosophy. That philosophy dictates that they're not really even worried as to when they might win a general election. They will win one eventually and having done so will introduce legislation and measures to ensure that they stay in power for decades rather than years. Such too is the nature of Marxism.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 08:08
  #15355 (permalink)  
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Excellent article that skewers Owen Jones - and Jeremy Corbyn.....

https://thegerasites.wordpress.com/2...funny-anymore/
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 08:49
  #15356 (permalink)  
 
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But they are already skewered in the minds of 90% of people. It's only the pro Palestinian Momentum loons who believe anything else. Of course the press will use this against Corbyn but half of Labour voters want him gone anyway. A bit like the Tory friend I am staying with at present who insists that May is a traitor and should be strung from the yardarm.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 09:12
  #15357 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ZeBedie View Post
Can I ask a serious question? What are the arguments for staying in the EU? Honestly, I'm not being sarcastic but, being a long term eurosceptic, I may have been blinkered during the referendum campaign.

So please, could someone spell out the reasons for remaining?
  • To ensure the continued open border between UK and Republic of Ireland (probably, politically the most important reason)
  • To ensure continued unfettered access to European markets for the many international businesses that have chosen to base themselves in the UK as their country of choice within the EU. Also to ensure the UK financial services industry retains, and can grow it's influence across Europe.
  • To ensure all our population has free, unfettered access to working and living throughout the EU
  • To ensure our working population retains the protections that would never have been brought in were the UK not pushed, shoved and cajoled into accepting (annual leave, working time etc)
  • To enable our fruit and veg farmers, hospitality providers, road hauliers have free access to workers who want to do the work that frankly many Brits who are unemployed don't want to, not can't, do.

That'll do for starters. I'm sure other among the enlightened on this thread can come up with a few more.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 09:22
  #15358 (permalink)  
 
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I was hoping that post would be ignored. There is more than enough discussion for Zebedee to read on the two Brexit threads, without getting this one closed as well.
We will all see what actually happens in a year's time.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 12:06
  #15359 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
  • To ensure the continued open border between UK and Republic of Ireland (probably, politically the most important reason)
  • ....
Having been in and out of the EU and its Customs Union several times recently to Jersey and Switzerland, I fail to see how the Northern Ireland border should be a 'problem' unless some are mischievously trying to make it a problem. From what I have seen, the UK government certainly has no desire to make it a problem. So where is the 'problem'?
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 12:31
  #15360 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
Having been in and out of the EU and its Customs Union several times recently to Jersey and Switzerland, I fail to see how the Northern Ireland border should be a 'problem' unless some are mischievously trying to make it a problem. From what I have seen, the UK government certainly has no desire to make it a problem. So where is the 'problem'?
That is becuase:-

a) Switzerland is within the EEA (the UK government won't join the EEA)
b) Switzerland is within Schengen. (The UK government wouldn't join that either)

There used to be pretty strong border controls between Switzerland and Germany before the Swiss signed up to Schengen.

The EEA, in my opinion isn't a good option, insofar as it makes the UK a rule taker, rather an involved in the decision making process. Other countries are willing to accept that minus point however as a trade off for trade benefits. If the UK did do an about turn on the EEA, then it's frankly better off tearing up the referendum result, or at least ask the public if they'd prefer to go along with EEA membership.
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