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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 28th Jul 2018, 14:04
  #15221 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
Why punish Pierre on his wine farm in Burgundy by not buying his wine based on the decision of Jacques in an office in Paris?
The one voted for the other, and has done absolutely nothing ever since to make amends or even say "sorry" to the relatives of the murder victim. The murderers themselves were let off and the French political system made no effort at all to cause heads to roll in the command or political structures.

If the French had run some sort of "truth and reconciliation" process and locked up those in the military and politics involved in ordering the murder then that would be different, but Pierre and his ilk have chosen not to do that.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 15:02
  #15222 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
The one voted for the other, and has done absolutely nothing ever since to make amends or even say "sorry" to the relatives of the murder victim. The murderers themselves were let off and the French political system made no effort at all to cause heads to roll in the command or political structures.

If the French had run some sort of "truth and reconciliation" process and locked up those in the military and politics involved in ordering the murder then that would be different, but Pierre and his ilk have chosen not to do that.
But Pierre is an individual and might not have agreed with any of the actions of 'authority' in this matter and might even have voted for the Green Party. But you are still applying 'collective punishment' to him. Very, very illiberal.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 15:04
  #15223 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
We'd probably manage with 30% less food, actually - isn't that about what we throw away?
Yet again you are proving how we could do without the EU! Thank you!!
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 15:21
  #15224 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
Yet again you are proving how we could do without the EU! Thank you!!
As has been pointed out to me elsewhere, what would actually happen in real life is simply that the rich would continue to waste food and the poor would go hungry.

Happily there's a tried and tested solution to that - ration books. And you will no doubt be pleased to hear that there's no technical reason they can't be printed in BLUE.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 17:06
  #15225 (permalink)  
 
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The poor will only 'go hungry' if their easy access to ready-meals and take-aways is interfered with.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 17:21
  #15226 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
The poor will only 'go hungry' if their easy access to ready-meals and take-aways is interfered with.
Yep, here's a little piece about the poor and their eating habits....

I'm sure you would be quiet happy dolloping out the gruel though......, and telling the recipients it was all their own fault for being poor and they should be jolly grateful for this supply of food

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...-ubereats-food
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 18:00
  #15227 (permalink)  
 
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The poor will only 'go hungry' if their easy access to ready-meals and take-aways is interfered with.
Not a very sympathetic statement, but I expect also largely untrue as most "poor" people cannot afford takeaways!
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 18:40
  #15228 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
Not a very sympathetic statement, but I expect also largely untrue as most "poor" people cannot afford takeaways!
It depends how you define "poor". For some, it's when you can't afford the latest smartphone......
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 18:48
  #15229 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
The poor will only 'go hungry' if their easy access to ready-meals and take-aways is interfered with.
The really poor don't have any choice about that, of course, as they don't have access to any cooking facilities.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 20:43
  #15230 (permalink)  
 
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When KFC screwed up their supplies, it wasn't the wealthy, Guardian-reading Champagne socialists that I saw complaining that they couldn't feed their kids...
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 07:19
  #15231 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
The really poor don't have any choice about that, of course, as they don't have access to any cooking facilities.
Nonsense. A double hotplate for cooking can be bought, brand new, for about twenty quid. Cut back on the fags for a day or so and that is very manageable.

Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
It depends how you define "poor". For some, it's when you can't afford the latest smartphone......
Absolutely spot on.

(For info, we lived, with a one-year-old, below the 'income support' level for several months many years ago and we lived very healthily on fresh food that we cooked ourselves. With our eye on the electricity meter that frequently needed to be fed with those big old fifty pence coins. My sympathy levels for those who "can't do it" are very, very low!)

Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat
Happily there's a tried and tested solution to that - ration books. And you will no doubt be pleased to hear that there's no technical reason they can't be printed in BLUE.
That's called 'Universal Credit' now and they don't need 'books' so no need for the blue covers. As you have proven, there will be no shortage of food as the percentage of our food that we get from the EU is the same percentage that is wasted, so 'waste not want not' and there will not be a shortage. (And before any of the cries of horror about the new Universal Credit system, has anyone posting here actually experienced it? I have and I couldn't fault it.)
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 07:54
  #15232 (permalink)  
 
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Poverty goes hand in hand with low education and intelligence. Sadly we have seen a whole slew of companies spring up to exploit this cohort. Loan companies with four figure APR's and businesses offering furniture and electrical goods at astronomical prices on weekly terms. One of the saddest aspects of this is trusted daytime TV personalities extolling the virtues. People who have already scooped the pool persuading their gullible viewers to put their necks in the financial noose. Personally I think that these adverts border on sharp practice.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 08:04
  #15233 (permalink)  
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Ration books don't work. They have value and can be traded for only things like drugs and drink.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 08:47
  #15234 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
Nonsense. A double hotplate for cooking can be bought, brand new, for about twenty quid. Cut back on the fags for a day or so and that is very manageable.
You don't have any idea, do you. Where is a street homeless person to plug such a thing in? Someone living in a hostel with a "no cooking" rule? Someone living in "temporary" B&B accommodation with a "no cooking" rule? Yes if you've got somewhere to live there are systems to provide loans for essentials such as cooking equipment, but if you've been following the news for the last few decades you will be aware that the social security system doesn't always work absolutely perfectly.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 08:51
  #15235 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Ration books don't work. They have value and can be traded for only things like drugs and drink.
Not when they've got photos and are electronically tied to the new national ID card system that would be brought in at the same time. Of course people could still buy their ration of food and sell it on on the black market, but then they'd be hungry. (Is it time for my grandma's black market chicken story again yet?)
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 10:15
  #15236 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
... to the new national ID card system that would be brought in at the same time.
Oooohhhh.... yet another illiberal concept!

I like Peter Hitchen's idea on this: A free country is where Authority has to identify itself to you. You are not in a free country where you have to identify yourself to Authority. (And apply this to several large EU-member countries?)
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 10:45
  #15237 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
Oooohhhh.... yet another illiberal concept!
Yup. Bit far fetched, but that is one theory for #brexit:

The police state advocates couldn't get ID cards through the political system in normal circumstances, so they engineer a state of emergency (arrange for #brexit, then make sure there's no deal) in which they think it will be more acceptable.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 11:34
  #15238 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
Oooohhhh.... yet another illiberal concept!

I like Peter Hitchen's idea on this: A free country is where Authority has to identify itself to you. You are not in a free country where you have to identify yourself to Authority. (And apply this to several large EU-member countries?)
Is a country with cameras mounted on every second street corner a free country? Just asking...
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 12:32
  #15239 (permalink)  
 
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WTF is this fake zero post count I've been given?, the mods here are really something else...grow up ffs

Last edited by Gault; 30th Jul 2018 at 17:20.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 12:36
  #15240 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ThorMos View Post
Is a country with cameras mounted on every second street corner a free country? Just asking...
For my first few years as a councillor the most common request from constituents was for more CCTV cameras. The reasoning was largely spurious - the crime vs fear of crime thing - but if you put up the cameras and little old ladies no longer feel housebound that's a win (cheaper to put up the cameras than to "re-educate" them). And as a free bonus every now and then the cameras help save money on the court system (perps tend to put their hands up when shown the footage of them committing the crime, thereby saving the cost of a trial).

And it can work the other way too. There was a fight, police arrived, nicked who they thought had been the participants. Which included one lad who, although he did have a bit of a history with the police (like many lads), said he'd had nothing to do with this one and had just been passing by chance. Footage viewed, he was seen to be telling the truth, "sorry mate, off you go" - without the CCTV who knows how much hassle he would have had to go to to prove his innocence, or even whether he would have succeeded?
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