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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 27th Jul 2018, 09:48
  #15201 (permalink)  
 
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It would take years to set up the growing of things like fruit. In that intervening time it will get more expensive, simple rule of supply and demand. The ERG and their supporters may well be correct in their assertion that No Deal is an option, but it is an ashes in the mouthes of the victors scenario. Even were the EU to blink first, which is doubt, we will have spent billions preparing for such a scenario. But it is billions that we cannot afford to flush down the drains and that is exactly what it will be. If they are bluffing it will be a very expensive bluff for us.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 09:54
  #15202 (permalink)  
 
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It would appear that JRM was talking about importing cheaper foods from non-EU countries, so he would appear to be ignoring that we grow it ourselves and also no thoughts on the environmental impact of importing from further afield.

So, still confused.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 10:36
  #15203 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
(I do not know what that last Post was all on about...!)

Pontius Navigator, I fully agree with you about strawberries. Scottish strawberries taste far, far better than those Spanish things.

However I disagree with you about the seafood, as British people have acquired tastes for foods that originate a long, long way further than the coast is from them here.
About fish was a bit tongue in cheek but at least it got a bite.

I was referring in particular to a very recent TV programme where the fishers were catching pilchards. He said he never are them and they all went to Europe as they was no UK demand.

Nearer home, Natural England refused permission for Wash mussel fishermen to cull or otherwise deter ducks from ravishing the muscle beds. Their response was to export their mussels lays to Holland.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 11:25
  #15204 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
Waitrose sells some very good british sparkling wine, so I hope that those Guardian readers won't continue drinking that French stuff.
I don't drink French wine anyway, not since Rainbow Warrior. But I don't count, as I don't read the Guardian any more, not now that they support #brexit.

(OK, let's be honest, we do still drink champagne, on account of it only coming from France.)
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 12:40
  #15205 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
The aim to grow ourselves is a long term one. Coming out of the EU is a long term affair.

In the short term, we possibly will need to start importing from further afield, this will cost more and be less friendly to the environment but that in itself will make an easier and more attractive environment in which our own providers will flourish.
Thatís the inflation rate up then. At what point will it really tank the economy do you think - 5%, 10% or higher?
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 13:33
  #15206 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
I don't drink French wine anyway, not since Rainbow Warrior. But I don't count, as I don't read the Guardian any more, not now that they support #brexit.

(OK, let's be honest, we do still drink champagne, on account of it only coming from France.)
If we have a hard Brexit you won't have to drink French champagne, you can drink English or American. California does have a problem out side Europe😀
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 15:06
  #15207 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
... Even were the EU to blink first, which is doubt, we will have spent billions preparing for such a scenario. But it is billions that we cannot afford to flush down the drains and that is exactly what it will be. If they are bluffing it will be a very expensive bluff for us.
We flush billions down the drain already by paying it to the EU. Redirecting which 'drain' it is flushed down could be worked to our very significant advantage in the long term without any real short-term loss to us. A big loss to them of course as they will no longer receive all that dosh from us.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 15:35
  #15208 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
Ever wondered why that is?



Actually the peaches in my garden do just fine and taste great. Down here in Kent there are large orchards and polytunnels growing all sorts. Modern methods are being developed that enable more and more crops to be grown here more easily. What we need is more local producers getting involved setting up these farms and trying new ideas. The problem is when we are flooded with cheap imports from the EU it is hard to make it work. This goes back to what I have said earlier, people with the drive and ambition to identify and take up these kinds of opportunities will make Brexit a success not the politicians. All we need from them is to make it easier to start and expand these types of business.

As I have already said, the Champagne quaffing, Waitrose shopping Guardian readers in Islington have been calling out for this kind of local produce movement for years. How ironic that it could be Brexit that is the main driver to make it happen.
Well the answer to your question is good old British profiteering......simply add "made in / produced in " etc or just plain old "British " and the jingoistic appeal works for many.

But it's interesting to learn the EU is responsible for all the issues surrounding food in the UK and that we couldn't by any remote chance be contributing to these ourselves .....

Food waste and hunger in the UK - FareShare's Issues


And a special mention for Tabatha and Tarquin ( Sales and Marketing, mwah ! ) who have decided that crops which don't meet their exacting standards of aesthetics simply can't be offered to the public...even though they are perfectly edible of course.

As for growing more exotic produce, and funnily enough I've seen poly-tunnels in the wilderness that exists outside the S.East of the UK ( it's possibly not a good idea to ask who does the actual manual work involved here ) why do you think commercial development of these crops has never really become feasible ( please don't include the EU... or, as is your obsession, the unions for not allowing foreign produce to be grown on these hallowed shores ) just stick your head outside at say 03.30 anytime between the end of Oct and sometime in March.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 27th Jul 2018 at 16:16.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 15:48
  #15209 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
The aim to grow ourselves is a long term one. Coming out of the EU is a long term affair.

In the short term, we possibly will need to start importing from further afield, this will cost more and be less friendly to the environment but that in itself will make an easier and more attractive environment in which our own providers will flourish.

We need to have people out there now talking to potential suppliers outside the EU after Brexit to fill this gap and show that we mean business instead of this will it happen/won't it that we are doing now. When the Spanish growers see their contracts going elsewhere the EU may feel more pressure to change its attitude.

That goes for anything else too not just food. Whatever may be victim to supply issues after Brexit needs to be identified now and moves made to secure deals elsewhere. It's time to start showing everyone we mean business.
That assumes that places further afield have the capacity to grow / breed more to satisfy the new business from the UK. You can't just up food production, in the same way that New Zealand farmers can't suddenly turn a tap on and produce another million or so lambs!! Just because the UK market becomes more open (if indeed it does) farmers have a market for their products already, and they get (hopefully) sustainable prices and aren't growing unsaleable surpluses. Why would they suddenly annoy those existing customers just so they could start shipping stuff to the UK because they've shot themselves in the foot by leaving the EU acrimoniously? We may become a basket case, but the UK certainly won't be given charity from businesses in New Zealand, Kenya, Zambia, Peru or anywhere else.

The government's daft ideas of stockpiling food beggar belief. It's the canned stuff with long shelf life that are potentially going to be the problem, is perishables, which by their nature are........PERISHABLE!
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 16:27
  #15210 (permalink)  
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" The government's daft ideas of stockpiling food beggar belief. It's the canned stuff with long shelf life that are potentially going to be the problem, is perishables, which by their nature are........PERISHABLE "


Not so, the Gov't have already cunningly planned for just such a contingency by converting the M26 into a glorified truck stop...... so that will be lines of fridge arctics all sitting patiently in a queue..... and knowing.the Gov't will probably make this a "Pay and Display" site as well.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 17:28
  #15211 (permalink)  
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Looking for something I stumbled on this site. It shows the tariff relationship between EU and US and the protectionism involved 350% on peanuts!

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2015/january/tradoc_152998.1%20Trade%20in%20goods%20and%20customs%20tarif fs.pdf

The same would be true of UK.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 17:46
  #15212 (permalink)  
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The town in which I grew up, had a 'cold storage' facility linked to the railway with sidings - a relic of WWII or soon after.
This building was converted into a 'bunker' for use as an RGHQ - though the protection which it would have afforded in the event of a nuclear attack was woefully inadequate.
The building was demolished in the late 1990s, since when the site has remained unkempt and unused.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 18:20
  #15213 (permalink)  
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One Caribbean island had its banana trade wiped out by the EU and now depends on tourism. There are many places where they can produce on demand although often to the detriment of local produce for their home market.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 18:39
  #15214 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Why would they suddenly annoy those existing customers just so they could start shipping stuff to the UK because they've shot themselves in the foot by leaving the EU acrimoniously? We may become a basket case, but the UK certainly won't be given charity from businesses in New Zealand, Kenya, Zambia, Peru or anywhere else.
Farming is the same as every other business - the farmers will sell their product to whoever pays the most. The idea that some farmer in New Zealand is going to turn down hard cash from the UK simply to satisfy business in some other market is rather fanciful.

A Lamb chop will sell for 'X' amount on the world market - who buys it is immaterial.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 06:29
  #15215 (permalink)  
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And now, having solved the UK's agricultural policies and future developments .....conveniently ignoring the shortage of basic crops due to the warm (ish) weather and having to import lettuce for example ( thankfully, it may well be a record year for peaches ) a return to that perennial JB favourite......privatisation.. ..helpfully assisted by the tax payer.

Nothing but consistent when it comes to ineptitude, and this takes some doing, here's the legacy of Mr Graylings endeavours before he moved on to a reprise as Transport Secretary although his efforts here don't need to wait to become evident in retrospect.....

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-early-justice
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 07:36
  #15216 (permalink)  
 
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I assume that whilst we are in the EU there are no import duties on food from the EU. After we leave and the UK decides not to levy any import duties on food from the EU what's the difference?

Is the EU going to impose export duties? I can hear the reaction from French and Spanish farmers.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 07:40
  #15217 (permalink)  
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Just lost a carefully sourced reply

In essence food is not in the top 10 imports. 49% of food consumed in UK is UK and only 30% from EU.

​​​​​​Germany exports $50B more to us than we to them. We export more to US than any one SO country.

We need Dutch power and petrol, we need French electricity and we import a lot of energy but less than the EU majors such as France, Germany and Netherlands.​​​
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 07:46
  #15218 (permalink)  
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FED, that is where protectionism comes in. The US has a 350% tariff on peanuts.

Now if we imposed a tariff on Spanish strawberries, no big loss, the EU might impose a tariff on Cheddar cheese or English wine.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 08:18
  #15219 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
In essence food is not in the top 10 imports. 49% of food consumed in UK is UK and only 30% from EU.
We'd probably manage with 30% less food, actually - isn't that about what we throw away?
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 13:36
  #15220 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
I don't drink French wine anyway, not since Rainbow Warrior.
That is an extremely illiberal sentiment!! You are effectively carrying out 'group punishment'. Why punish Pierre on his wine farm in Burgundy by not buying his wine based on the decision of Jacques in an office in Paris? What happened to the true Liberal philosophy of treating people as individuals? (Or are the LibDums not true Liberals?)
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