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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 24th Jul 2018, 15:28
  #15121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Then, as someone has already said, now trying catching the ferry!
In the past, I have had to show my passport when flying from Liverpool to the Isle of Man!
You don't currently need a passport to use the dublin ferry (at least I didn't need it back in February when I last used it). You don't need a passport for UK internal flights starting in England - you need an acceptable form of ID. I've flown Heathrow-Aberdeen using just a company photo-ID card. Unfortunately Scotchville has a different policy and requires a pastport to board the aeroplane in Aberdeen to fly back (fortunately I had it with me for other reasons, but it meant they had to recall my hold baggage so I could get it out to show them).AT least that was the situation last year when I last flew to Aber.

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Old 24th Jul 2018, 16:13
  #15122 (permalink)  
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AAIB extract ...." shortly after take-off heavy turbulence was encountered. This was followed by unresponsive control inputs with uncommanded roll, pitch and yaw movement to the right resulting in a steep descending turn. The angle of bank was approximated from the FDR as being outside the performance limits with intermittent failings in the navigational systems being consistent with a complete loss of power and only minimal restoration.. Despite the deterioration in handling, the auto-pilot was engaged with low fuel warnings captions also illuminating.Crew incapacitation also became a contributory factor., The Captain declined to declare an emergency or make a return to base. Subsequent analysis of the CVR transcript showed garbled messages and a lack of command authority as the destination approached. The final words were : " I have control ". Radio and radar contact was lost at this point. " .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44941792

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 24th Jul 2018 at 17:00.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 16:29
  #15123 (permalink)  
 
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Sallyann & PDR1: I wasn't suggesting they would need a passport to board the ferry. Merely what PDR has more or less pointed out; an acceptable form of ID is needed to board the ferries. And that was the point of my post.
But, don't take my word for it, visit the Stena lines web site.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 19:25
  #15124 (permalink)  
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https://www.politico.eu/article/germ...sition-period/

Germany to help Brits stay EU citizens during Brexit transition period

Britons living in Germany who meet the requirements will be able to become German citizens during the post-Brexit transition period, according to a bill being drafted by Berlin.

The draft law, called Brexit-Übergangsgesetz (or BrexitÜG for short) and seen by POLITICO’s Brussels Playbook, is being prepared to allow a Brexit transition period, which was agreed to in principle by negotiators earlier this year, to be translated into German national law.

If passed, the law would treat the U.K. legally as an EU member until the final day of the transition, with any Brits who apply for a German passport before the end of the period to be treated as EU nationals. That will enable them to keep both their British passport and their new, EU one, despite the fact Germany generally doesn’t allow dual citizenship.

Linn Selle, the new president of the European Movement Germany, said she is pleased with these “generous rules for British nationals,” which will send “the right sign for the Europe-friendly Britons.”

“After all, only [52 percent] wanted Brexit. Most of them would probably know by now that they better remain Europeans. A German EU passport can certainly help,” she said........

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Old 24th Jul 2018, 19:53
  #15125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Which law would that be? - it's up to Ireland whether they let people into Ireland, and once people are in Ireland they can walk across the open border to the north.
Well, you've got me there - I can't quote the legislation and I'm only assuming that it would be against the rule of law for one country to deliberately use innocent economic migrants as pawns in a ploy to damage the society and economy of a neighbouring country.

And since Ireland is English speaking and a nice, prosperous place, I still maintain that many of your imaginary immigrants would stay there.

Also, when you say "it's up to Ireland whether they let people into Ireland" you're suggesting Ireland would ditch Schengen for the purpose of petty point scoring? And in the end, to achieve what, exactly?
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 20:16
  #15126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
The Irish are known for their enterprise in such matters. There are hundreds of miles of coastline from the Severn estuary up to The Hebrides that would make excellent entry points in the dead of night.
Have you tried crossing the Irish Sea in a small boat? It's a very long way. Anything but a properly seaworthy boat would be vulnerable and since there isn't much small boat traffic, conspicuous.
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 07:10
  #15127 (permalink)  
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ZeBedie, the ROI isn’t in Schengen, it’s in the CTA along with the UK, IOM and CI.

You can be in one or the other, not both.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...on-travel-area

Please note that the CTA is enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement as much as an discussion concerning border regulations, recognised by the EU, and thus not open to change due to any fit of pique on behalf of Dublin. It also imposes duties upon all members to perform checks on their joint external border and on the return of any non-qualifying individuals who pass from one member to another.

See sections 1.3 and 1.4 below.

https://merrionstreet.ie/Brexit/Info...A%20FINAL.docx

Last edited by ORAC; 25th Jul 2018 at 08:47. Reason: Sp
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 08:41
  #15128 (permalink)  

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https://www.businessinsider.co.za/th...18-7?r=US&IR=T

Enjoy!

Mac
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 08:52
  #15129 (permalink)  
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Mac, from POLITICO. Expect a long hot fear filled summer....

https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/l...-at-the-polls/

SCHOOL’S OUT FOR THE SUMMER … But Brexit is not going away. The government’s plan to drip-feed public warnings throughout August about the impact of a no-deal Brexit means that in Westminster, the silly season will be dominated by rows about the impact of a hard break with Europe. We got a flavor of what’s in store yesterday with Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab’s less-than-reassuring answer to the Commons Brexit committee about the need to stockpile food (“It would be wrong to describe it as the government doing the stockpiling”), and Health Secretary Matt Hancock’s confirmation that extra blood and medicine supplies will be needed just in case. No. 10 has made clear there’s plenty more where that came from … it’s going to be a hell of a summer.

Project Fear redux: Newsnight’s Nick Watt gave us a glimpse of the arguments that lie ahead last night, quoting one Tory MP in the Brexit-supporting European Research Group who accuses Hancock of “weaponizing the no-deal preparations.”
For his part the health secretary insists he is simply doing his job after the PM ordered all departments — at the behest of Brexiteers — to ramp up their no-deal preparations. But Watt also quoted a “Tory supporter of Theresa May” who rather gave the game away about what Brexiteers are already labeling Project Fear 2.0. “We want to scare people witless so people will eventually embrace the Theresa May plan,” the pro-May source told him. Whoops.

Pincer movement: While the government scares people witless about a no-deal Brexit, the hardcore Remainiacs will be ramping up their own efforts to force proceedings in a very different direction. The “People’s Vote” campaign for a referendum on the final deal goes into overdrive this summer, with events across the country designed to pressure the two party leaders to shift their stances. Much of the focus will be on Jeremy Corbyn, with Labour still not having categorically ruled out backing a second vote. The “Left Against Brexit” tour kicks off in Liverpool tonight, and will see an assortment of Labour MPs, trade union leaders, lefty journalists and the like speaking at second-referendum rallies around the U.K......


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Old 25th Jul 2018, 09:05
  #15130 (permalink)  
 
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Just a question really. Aside from all the whys and wherefores and the apportioning of blame between our government, the EU, the Remainers and the Leavers who on here believes that Brexit is going to turn out all fine and dandy?
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 09:54
  #15131 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Just a question really. Aside from all the whys and wherefores and the apportioning of blame between our government, the EU, the Remainers and the Leavers who on here believes that Brexit is going to turn out all fine and dandy?
There is a bit more to it now than before, if those groups who are trying to stay in, or as in as can be achieved, then no it will not be fine and dandy for a while, but I believe if done properly it will work out better for the UK outside the restrictions of the EU and as long as we don't keep paying into the gravy train it will release money for this country to decide what to spend it on.

But if those same people accepted the inevitable and worked towards a proper break and then negotiate a proper deal like other non EU countries do then I also believe that the temporary hard times will be limited to a shorter, in the scheme of things, period of disruption.

I have a question or three:
1. Does any sane person on here actually believe we are going to run out of food, electricity, etc etc, as a consequence of a clean break from the EU?
2. Does anyone really believe that hordes of immigrants are going to be coming in from Ireland post Brexit?
3. Does anyone really believe that the EU and UK are going to let both economies suffer to prove Brexit was a mistake, are those that are trying to subvert the break, on both sides of the channel, really think they are right and still want to risk that outcome at all costs to be able to say told you so, even if it makes them suffer financially, or is it a case that those people will make money whatever the outcome, so don't really care about anything but winning.
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 10:19
  #15132 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
3.
Yes and no, the majority of people will just get on with their lives and those who would create business and opportunity will still do so. There will however be the usual group who find it easy to blame their own lack of progress in life on 'the system'. These people will love another excuse as to why they haven't achieved all they could in life and will continue to blame every negative on brexit and say 'I told you so'.
Of course if Brexit causes severe pain in the short and medium term, Brexiteers won’t blame the negotiators of whatever deal/no deal we end up with for not standing up more firmly to the evil EU empire? Rather than considering the possibility that Brexit itself might at least share some of the blame. I take the view that a lot of the hard Brexit/No deal proponents are preparing the ground for that already on the assumption that there will be some sort of last minute fudge to get a deal. Shades of the 1983 election when Tony Benn blamed the Labour manifesto not being left wing enough for their defeat.
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 10:35
  #15133 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
This is the problem with remainers. They talk about brexit as if it is a single process that will have a particular outcome.
But that is exactly what the referendum question asked. Nothing about process. Just a single outcome, IN or OUT.
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 10:41
  #15134 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
I know lots of people that voted for Brexit but none who think there will not be a rough transition period.
I fear that your circle of friends may be in a minority there

They believe that it is worth it to get out of the EU and the blame, instead of being heaped upon those that voted to get out, should be aimed at those that took us there in the first place.
Any poll of ‘Greatest Ever Anything’ will tell you that a worryingly high number of people seem to think Ever goes back less than 5 years. Politically aware folks like your friends may well take that view, but they are only a small minority of the electorate (on all sides) most of whom will struggle to remember much before 2016.

People voted the way they did to get out and will be willing to put up with a lot to see that through. The idea that they will change their minds because things get a bit tough is laughable and totally underestimates the depth of feeling about this.
I think you are very optimistic over the fortitude of great swathes of the electorate these days. After the recent government comments about food I wouldn’t be particularly surprised if we start getting reports of shortages due to people starting to stockpile already!

There will be blood in the streets if Brexit doesn't go ahead. Hopefully they are not stupid enough to test that.
No change of mind is allowed in a democracy I guess!

Last edited by Curious Pax; 25th Jul 2018 at 10:42. Reason: Typo
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 11:04
  #15135 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
It is attitudes like this that have brought along Brexit, Trump etc. This belief that those who vote a certain way are somehow superior to the rest. That most people should not be given a vote as they are too stupid to understand. You cannot have the view that "The people should not be given a choice as we know best." and still support democracy.
Your paranoia kicking in again? I wasn’t ascribing anything to one particular side, though you seem to be with your implication that Corbyn supporters are stupid.

The fact is that in any vote some people will analyse the facts as presented and come to a view, some will kneejerk one way or another, while some will believe whoever told them most confidently things will be better tomorrow. Trying to claim that all 17.4 million leave voters understood exactly what would happen is as ludicrous as claiming the same for remain voters. And if some of the remain voters didn’t realise the implications then, but don’t like the reality of whatever happens as it pans out, then they might change their minds about the whole thing. It would only take 650,000 if the same number voted, which is quite a small percentage of the 33 million plus who cast a vote.

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Old 25th Jul 2018, 11:38
  #15136 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
They believe that it is worth it to get out of the EU
Except that none of them has ever come up with a single benefit of leaving.

Apart, that is, from

(a) BLUE PASSPORTS
(b) £350m/week for the NHS
(c) free rainbow coloured flying unicorns for all
(d) sending all brown people "home"

none of which, apart from (a) which we could have had any way, is going to happen.
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 11:42
  #15137 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=Prophead;10205628]How could they ask anything else? There was no known plan for staying in just as there was no plan for coming out.

That merely underlines the crass stupidity of holding the referendum surely?
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 11:57
  #15138 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Sallyann & PDR1: I wasn't suggesting they would need a passport to board the ferry. Merely what PDR has more or less pointed out; an acceptable form of ID is needed to board the ferries. And that was the point of my post.
But, don't take my word for it, visit the Stena lines web site.
I've done more than visited the web site - I've visited the ferry. With two of us in the car, a wave of one driving licence and we were through - both ways.

But this is not relevant. If immigrants are to be filtered out at the Belfast ferry port it will require full passport checks, which we are told are unacceptable to the party that currently holds the keys to Downing Street. And they are right - why should passports be required for travel within the United Kingdom?
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 12:19
  #15139 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
One thing I am certain of is that, had the vote gone the other way there would be no serious talk of a second one.
I'm certain of no such thing, not least because Farage promised before the vote that he would not accept it if it went 52:48 against him. Or do you think he was lying about that as well as about everything else?
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 13:45
  #15140 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
What Farage wants is of no consequence. Do you really believe he would have been given another vote if he had kept asking?
That's strange. Many on here and elsewhere have given Farage the entire credit for Brexit. Now apparently he's of no consequence. You live and learn.
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