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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 9th Jul 2018, 15:45
  #14841 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 349
Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
Which is why I've argued on here for the past couple of years, the UK should just walk away....
Well you've got your wish, although it seems more like the door will be slammed in our faces.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 15:50
  #14842 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
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Two words of wisdom:

Former Swedish PM Carl Bildt:
"Tragic to see how the UK is lost in the post-referendum chaos. This used to be a nation providing leadership to the world. Now it can’t even provide leadership to itself. "

Ian Blackford, Leader of the SNP in the Commons:
"Boris Johnson should not have been allowed to resign, he should have been sacked for being a national embarrassment."





Last edited by virginblue; 9th Jul 2018 at 16:00.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 15:58
  #14843 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
So the world's 5th/6th/7th largest economy isn't important to the other 175+ economies ??

And yet again - mostly the half with higher levels of education and income -voted remain.

How utterly snobbish ! Not even condescending...Just outright snobbish !
But a fact - it was the old, the stupid and the poor that voted to Leave - that's what the stat's show.....................
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 16:02
  #14844 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I am certainly not wealthy and equally certainly not snobbish-I merely quoted quite widely broadcast data on the demographics of the referendum. I will put my hands up to not being very good at typing.

I regard myself as very patriotic but I do not lkie the ludicrous make Britain GREAT again and we won the war bluster we get into over the EU and Football.
We were a great nation once -the greatest in terms of modern history- but . it wasnt that great for 95% of the population though who were providing child labour , slaving, allowing the masses to live in poverty and squalor. I don't want a return to that via Mr Rees Mogg and his friends I would however like to see a good Britain before I die where the elderly nd poor are not spoken of as being part of the cause of our troubles, where .we return to our more traditional democratic values of liberal socialism for labour and noblesse oblige for conservatives and try and find a middle way to solve the real problems facing us.

Do people here really think the CEO of Airbus, Honda Nissan etc would lie about their companies policies and concerns and that the Governor of the Bank of England is clueless.

Nukes, admitted controlled by our US cousins and seats on the UN security council are luxuries we can no longer afford when the NHS is in dire straights, the elderly and disadvantaged are victimised and we cannot maintain our basic infrastructure properly. It is for those reasons I also believe it is important to challenge the views of about 80% of the print media over issues like the Eu referendum .

And taking back control from Brussels is a complete sham -or scam if you prefer, all criminal and most social law is ours anyway. we have always had and at times exercised the right not to go along with certain aspects like EU employment law and so there is little to gain there.. but then it seems many of the voices of concern about Brexit are shouted down in an orgy of fake patriotism and accusations of elitism, 48% of anything can never be described as Elite after all

There is also the fractured and seemingly unworkable process of actually leaving the EU-Davis was useless , but he always has been , and the new guy who is not even British ethnically represents a constituency filled with stayers , I think they voted close to 70% remain so from the start he is compromised.

Whether we like it or not 'Europe' is 20 miles away , less than an hour on the train from Ashford to Lille .and people think it more sensible to trade with New Zealand than France, you do realise Napoleon is dead don't you.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 16:03
  #14845 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Well you've got your wish, although it seems more like the door will be slammed in our faces.

But did you ever seriously believe it wouldn't be ??

I can't think of a single UK proposal for life post-Brexit that the EU has agreed to other than money that the UK must pay for this and for that and for that over there as well, but I'm happy to be corrected

I have never doubted, for one second, that the UK could never ' do a deal ' with the EU because the EU could never take the risk that the UK, post-EU, might succeed and prosper with so much anti-EU sentiment kicking around in other EU Member States....
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 16:11
  #14846 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
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The FTSE 100 has responded well to both DD and Bojo resignations. Looks like the market analysts are expecting a soft Brexit.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 16:16
  #14847 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
But a fact - it was the old, the stupid and the poor that voted to Leave - that's what the stat's show.....................

Please provide a link - any link - to any post-referundum analysis or demographics of voters which states, categorically, that people who voted to leave are ' stupid '

Older, perhaps, and not Champagne Socialists, perhaps....But insulting to insinuate that every person who voted to leave is stupid.

So just your opinion, no doubt - the same as some who voted to leave because they were not stupid enough to believe the lies and scaremongering of Project Fear and saw the EU for what it really is and where it's heading and perhaps are now entitled to believe it was only stupid people who voted to remain.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 16:17
  #14848 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
But a fact - it was the old, the stupid and the poor that voted to Leave - that's what the stat's show.....................
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Disraeli.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 16:28
  #14849 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
But did you ever seriously believe it wouldn't be ??
I have said on the other threads, right from the start, that there will not be a satisfactory Brexit agreement.

The EU will not make concessions for us, however much it may hurt them.

It is a ridiculous premise that one can resign from a club, and then expect the club rules to be changed for the convenience of a non-member.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 16:31
  #14850 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I have said on the other threads, right from the start, that there will not be a satisfactory Brexit agreement. The EU will not make concessions for us, however much it may hurt them. It is a ridiculous premise that one can resign from a club, and then expect the club rules to be changed for the convenience of a non-member.
Not even if the rule changes would be of mutual benefit?

I'm hearing rumours (supposedly 'reliable') that the required 48 letters have been delivered to the Conservative backbench 1922 Committee, meaning Mrs May is being challenged for a leadership election. Theresa May is due to meet there very shortly.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 16:32
  #14851 (permalink)  
 
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Do people here really think the CEO of Airbus, Honda Nissan etc would lie about their companies policies
Hell yes, nissan just got caught for cheating emissions.
Airbus military sales just like the others are regularly pulled up for paying bribes.
Honda also have a smalldesiel turbo power car engine it's only a matter of time before they get caught like the rest.

So pretty much the whole lot of them I suspect will lie on reflex if they think it will give them a larger bonus.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 16:39
  #14852 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
I can't think of a single UK proposal for life post-Brexit that the EU has agreed to other than money that the UK must pay for this and for that and for that over there as well, but I'm happy to be corrected
As the proposals all amounted to "We want to have the cake and eat it", what do you expect? The EU is not a bunch of idiots that will bend over backwards to suit Brexit Britain at the detriment of its own citiziens.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 17:20
  #14853 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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But insulting to insinuate that every person who voted to leave is stupid.
No ,but I would bet that if you asked a cross section of people who's houses are currently festooned with "En-ger-lund" flags there'd be a correlation between them and Brexit voters.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 17:29
  #14854 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I have said on the other threads, right from the start, that there will not be a satisfactory Brexit agreement.

The EU will not make concessions for us, however much it may hurt them.

It is a ridiculous premise that one can resign from a club, and then expect the club rules to be changed for the convenience of a non-member.
Exactly that. This whole thing has unfortunately degenerated into a chaotic shambles.
However, we cannot go back. We can only move forward and to do that we need to forget party politics and define a clear and robust strategy. Ideally this ought to be a cross party as those who voted did so did not vote on party lines.
Remember, we have already promised a massive divorce payment to the EU. If we are forced into a NO DEAL exit that should be used as a bargaining tool.
BTW. I voted to remain as I could not see a situation where the country would be better off by leaving and that remains my view.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 17:38
  #14855 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
No ,but I would bet that if you asked a cross section of people who's houses are currently festooned with "En-ger-lund" flags there'd be a correlation between them and Brexit voters.
Just tune into Sky News when they are broadcasting from outside Parliament and you will witness an exhibition by the true Remainer Mensa candidates. Half a dozen ranting fruitbats waving their Star Bangled Sphincter flags and pro EU placards in an attempt to drown out what the broadcaster is trying to say while dancing like loons to get their banners into shot.

Care in the community has a lot to answer for.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 17:45
  #14856 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I voted to leave as did many of my peers, my one hope is they get on with it, so far the attempts seem lackluster.
I cannot fathom how Boris and Doris seemingly voted for this latest white paper plan and then promptly resigned, if they were not happy with it as per Doris's letter, then why the heck would one put ones name to it in the first place..... I wonder if he would be interested in a timeshare

It just beggars belief that, this far in that we are no further forward and now facing another set of ideas, I feel europe will be rubbing their hands with glee. I cannot see May lasting the course.

ATNotts my peers and myself range from commercial pilots through licenced engineers and just because we do not share the same views on the subject, you do us a great disservice..


i just wish we would walk away.



..

Last edited by NutLoose; 9th Jul 2018 at 17:57.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 17:57
  #14857 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I have said on the other threads, right from the start, that there will not be a satisfactory Brexit agreement.

The EU will not make concessions for us, however much it may hurt them.

It is a ridiculous premise that one can resign from a club, and then expect the club rules to be changed for the convenience of a non-member.

I agree with you totally.

And the politicos in the UK should have known and understood that, but they're politcos so they've all been pushing for themselves and not for the UK.

The UK should have walked away, straight away, and avoided the crises ( plural ! ) which seem to happen almost every month and which no doubt are causing huge amounts of laughter and guffaws in Brussels, Berlin, Dublin, Paris, etc, this evening.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 18:10
  #14858 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
No ,but I would bet that if you asked a cross section of people who's houses are currently festooned with "En-ger-lund" flags there'd be a correlation between them and Brexit voters.
Ahhh! Memories of the Thornbury idiot and her "White van man" comment!
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 18:20
  #14859 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
I am certainly not wealthy and equally certainly not snobbish-I merely quoted quite widely broadcast data on the demographics of the referendum. I will put my hands up to not being very good at typing.

I regard myself as very patriotic but I do not lkie the ludicrous make Britain GREAT again and we won the war bluster we get into over the EU and Football.
We were a great nation once -the greatest in terms of modern history- but ...

... ... ...

... and the new guy who is not even British ethnically represents a constituency filled with stayers , I think they voted close to 70% remain so from the start he is compromised.

Whether we like it or not 'Europe' is 20 miles away , less than an hour on the train from Ashford to Lille .and people think it more sensible to trade with New Zealand than France, you do realise Napoleon is dead don't you.
You really did get taken in by all that Bliarite propaganda, didn't you?

Oh dear, that '20 miles away' thing. A lot of us are thankfully a lot more than 20 miles from France! Trading with New Zealand? They'd genuinely be delighted to trade with us properly again. And with modern transport that distance is no problem. You realise we are no longer using Napoleonic era sailing ships, don't you?
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 18:23
  #14860 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
... an exhibition by the true Remainer Mensa candidates. Half a dozen ranting fruitbats waving their Star Bangled Sphincter flags and pro EU placards ...
What have you got against Mensa? Have you ever met a member?
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