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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 9th Jul 2018, 07:55
  #14801 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: A little south of the "Black Sheep" brewery
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Leave the whole 'negotiation' process with Brussels look as if it is going to fail. Let them start to think about how it is going to affect them:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44725606
Once they wake up to the fact that all Airbuses would be grounded as their wings are made in Britain (and the American Boeing manufacturer would be delighted!), they might start wanting to do a deal that Britain could accept. It's time the ball was in the other court as they have a huge amount to lose and they should note how important Britain is to them.
Internal British politics is unimportant in this.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 08:07
  #14802 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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David Davis has finally realised that his job was an impossible one.
It will be interesting to see who will be willing to knock their head against the EU brick wall.
There is no nice comfortable deal to be had.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 08:16
  #14803 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Classic whataboutery or "Oh look, a Squirrel"...

Corbyn isn't PM.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/de...n/whataboutery
Classic "Ostrich syndrome".

No explanation required.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 08:26
  #14804 (permalink)  
 
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From TROSSIE's link -

However, so far the European Commission has refused to allow any technical discussions between UK and EU aviation authorities.

True ??

Because if it is, it sort of demolishes half the posts in the other threads criticising the UK Government's so-called ' ignoring ' the situation.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 09:20
  #14805 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
From TROSSIE's link -

However, so far the European Commission has refused to allow any technical discussions between UK and EU aviation authorities.

True ??

Because if it is, it sort of demolishes half the posts in the other threads criticising the UK Government's so-called ' ignoring ' the situation.
It also sort of demolishes the other half of the threads that said the EU would be desperate for a deal with us because they can't manage without.
Are you still expecting them to roll over at the last minute?
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 09:27
  #14806 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Are you still expecting them to roll over at the last minute?
I'm expecting it to go to the wire - seeing who'll be the first to blink. I'd prefer someone in No 10 who would be prepared to be as equally, if not more, hard-nosed as Barnier et al.
I don't think TM has it in her make-up.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 09:27
  #14807 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
...
True ??

Because if it is, it sort of demolishes half the posts in the other threads criticising the UK Government's so-called ' ignoring ' the situation.
And the post before that refers to the 'ostrich syndrome'.

Those with their heads truly in the sand are those who don't recognise that the biggest block to ANY progress in the EU is the 'European' Commission.

The best for UK politics is to be as far removed from dealings with the European Commission's undemocratic bullying as possible. There is a big, big world out there to deal with. That Commission is going to cause the EU to sink so breaking free as cleanly as possible will be the best way to survive and prosper in that big world out there.

Once free from those bullying dictators, UK Politics can then start concentrating on politics in Britain again rather than being mired in constant EU nonsense.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 09:39
  #14808 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
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The new Brexit Secretary is Dominic Raab..
Next question: who?
Dominic_Raab
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 09:41
  #14809 (permalink)  
 
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Another deckchair repositioned on the Titanic..

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44763998
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 10:13
  #14810 (permalink)  
 
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From Austin Mitchell:
The people are being betrayed by Britain’s elite in collusion with the European plutocracy
The wonderfully staged after-school detention class at Chequers was carefully choreographed to show Theresa May as tougher than she’s been up to now and a woman in control of party and policy.

Its value in taking us closer to the kind of break the electorate voted for is more questionable. It points to a colonial status, has washed away most of Theresa’s red lines, and is ominously vague on the two crucial points: control of EU immigration and the ability to make trading arrangements with countries outside. Without either there’s little gain for a nation which needs to establish a degree of independence from an EU designed to suit the purposes of France and Germany but not ours.

Then there are two more serious problems. The first is that the EU won’t accept Theresa’s plan. Michel Barnier has already turned down parts of it and the first reaction of the Commission might as well have been “to assent with civil lear/ And, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer”. The EU isn’t a nation with which can negotiate sensibly. It’s a network of rules designed to hold 28 diverse entities together. It can only work on the assumption that the rules are absolute. If anyone is allowed to break them, the whole tangle will collapse – and unity with it.

So negotiations always come back not to interests which can be modified, but to rules which can’t, meaning that they’ll want to drive us back on the weak requests we’re putting up. Britain will be pushed back step by step to far less than the modest pleas Theresa is humble enough to make.

The second problem is Britain’s own fifth column, the Remain resisters. Up until now, they’ve been able to concentrate on stopping what they call a “hard” Brexit. They’ve won that argument by fear and funk. But it wasn’t their real intention, which can now be revealed: they don’t want any Brexit at all. Now they’ll drop the pretence and go on to kill it.

Seeing the vote as the result of the ignorance, foolishness, racism and simple irresponsibility of a section of society they don’t particularly like, they will now claim to have been right all along. They’ll argue that mini-Brexit is worse than staying in and throw their energy into cancelling it altogether, hoping that their naughty compatriots will now realise that what they wanted is impossible and reconcile themselves to crawling back with a few mea culpas.

A gloomy prospect. Yet it doesn’t mean that Brexiteers have to give up or its Cabinet supporters resign. Weak as Theresa has been, she must still be held to what have become her lavender lines. The intransigent obstinacy of the Great Blob has to be underlined. The people must be shown that they’re being betrayed by Britain’s elite in collusion with the European plutocracy. Britain’s interests have still to be defended. As those on the lifeboats escaping the Titanic told themselves, any degree of distance is better than staying on the sinking ship.
The WTO option looks increasingly likely.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 10:47
  #14811 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Another deckchair repositioned on the Titanic..

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44763998
This is actually rearranging deckchairs on one of the "Titanic's" most reliable lifeboats, the UK. Not a single deckchair is being rearranged on the true "Titanic", the EU.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 11:05
  #14812 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sidevalve View Post
I'm expecting it to go to the wire - seeing who'll be the first to blink. I'd prefer someone in No 10 who would be prepared to be as equally, if not more, hard-nosed as Barnier et al.
I don't think TM has it in her make-up.
this is the classic British mistake of equating the whole thing to a deal on a second -hand car

It seems to pass us by that we have little or no influence and the other side might have principles.............
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 11:12
  #14813 (permalink)  
 
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Who built the Titanic, who captained the titanic
Who ignored all the warnings about heading into danger

All this idiocy about standing up to people and being tough, this is a serious negotiation over difficult and complex issues not a fight ina pub car park which many of the appers seem to think it is.

Peopel voted on the basis that it was Britains Got talent , most people had no understanding if what was involved and anyone with any expertise was derided as an idiot or a traitor by our wonderful Nazi Germany like newspapers ( lots of left wing bias there ??)
theres lots of things wrong with the Eu but there are lots of things wrong here and if you think our politicians are any less corrupt and venal than their European counterparts you are completely delusional. The likes of Murdoch and a few 'self made' business men dont like the Eu because they have to ' influence opinion ' on a much wider and more expensive scale than if it was the UK alone .

Messrs Fox and Davis were both useless -no trade deals and no serious negotiations attest to that. As for the big world out there what on earth is the point of trying to build a trade based economy , which in our case is largely imports with people thousands of miles away than people twenty miles away who are ethnically, religiously and socially pretty much the same as us.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 11:13
  #14814 (permalink)  
 
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When Raab rolls up at Downing Street for his first Cabinet meeting, will a cheeky journalist shout the usual "When are you going to resign minister?".
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 11:34
  #14815 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
... the other side might have principles.............
There are a lot of other people's 'principles' that I would not want UK politics to have anything to do with!! Trying to 'pussy foot' around with other people's principles didn't work too well 80 years ago: We are coming up very soon to the 80th anniversary of that 'Peace in our time' speech. Funny old thing, that was also a spat that Britain had with an attempt to create a Europe 'unified' under some really questionable principles! Britain has helped to save Europe from itself far too often in the past, but the only way that Britain has been able to do so has been by remaining independent from that Europe that needs saving from itself.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 11:44
  #14816 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder if people are focusing on the wrong thing here.
There's every likelihood that the European Commission will simply reject May's latest proposal out of hand. And even if they don't, they'll only use it as a starting point to extract further concessions.
What then?
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 11:46
  #14817 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
... than people twenty miles away who are ethnically, religiously and socially pretty much the same as us.
Ah!!! Those south-east blinkers again! Twenty miles from us, just south of the Brewery' people are "ethnically, religiously and socially pretty much the same as us" (unless you cross the Pennines, then that becomes questionable!!).

Guy Verhofstadt put it beautifully a while ago when he stated that the British Common Law (showing his ignorance of Scotland!) was incompatible with the Code Napoleon. If I had the choice of living and trading in a society that used a legal system that was developed mostly through the evolution of civilian life or a legal system that had been imposed by a destructive, bloodthirst military tyrant, my choice would be quite simple!
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 11:52
  #14818 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
It seems to pass us by that we have little or no influence and the other side might have principles.............
The only principle for the EU in this case is

'Dan's ce pays-ci, il est non de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourage les autres'
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 11:52
  #14819 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
...
What then?
Simple: WTO rules. Then "Right Mr Barnier, what concessions are you going to make? (Oooh! Looks like all your Airbuses might be grounded, the Americans at Boeing are going to be delighted at that!)"
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 12:04
  #14820 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
It also sort of demolishes the other half of the threads that said the EU would be desperate for a deal with us because they can't manage without.
Are you still expecting them to roll over at the last minute?

No, I don't think there is an ' everything ' deal to be had as far as the UK is concerned.

The EU has got to secure itself against breaking up - even if that would mean a catastrophe for the 500+million of us who are and will remain trapped in it.

The UK's best hope ( and for the rest of us who are thoroughly fed up to the back teeth with the EU ) is the ' Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed ' approach, because a so-called Hard Brexit and no cash from the UK will bring the EU to its knees. Unfortunately, the UK, as well ,will be on its knees but will eventually recover, whereas the EU as it is would never recover.

As for the EASA situation, I said a few weeks ago that ' something ' will happen and still believe it will, because unlike some of the doomsters on here, even the numbskulls in Brussels know that they can't afford to have air travel in the EU grind to halt as 2000+ aircraft with UK manufactured components ( it's not just AB wings, there's also quite a few of other UK manufactured components in AB aircraft I believe ) are grounded.
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