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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 5th Feb 2018, 09:21
  #13661 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by sfm818 View Post
I identified Breitbart News as an unreliable source two years ago, but the opening sentence of this piece in support of Rees - Mogg is a
masterpiece of biased reporting. Why is an American rag that represents the far-right, taking an active interest in a Tory backbencher.

“Group”
“Masked”
“Alt-left”
“Extremists”
“Confrontation”
“Escalated”
“Violence”

The horror. The Horror. But what are we to make of an exchange of views that did not escalate until White Shirt Man instigated a scuffle.
Breitbart provides the answer in that same opening sentence:

“…attempted to shut down a speech by Tory leadership favourite Jacob Rees Mogg …”

Quite.

When Mr Rees - Mogg marched up the aisle to engage with “alt-left extremists”, which news agency employs the cameraman who was
conveniently on hand to capture the moment. Was it (a) the BBC (B) CNN or (C) Breitbart.

In the intro to their video exclusive Breitbart also described the alt-left extremists as “Violent”. This is the moment to pause & rewind the
evidence tape. There was a time when white shirt man would have been held accountable. It is a poor reflection on the current state of
politics in the UK when an agitator is free to threaten members of the public at a meeting attended by a "favourite" for the Tory Leadership.
That is how far the country has fallen in two years.

Watch: Violent Alt-Left Antifa Extremists Try To Shut Down Jacob Rees-Mogg Speech

Mail readers will be suffering orgasmic throes of excitement when they read that report.

However, and whilst it's true the meeting was disrupted by protestors the video clip does contradict the allegations made on here as to whom instigated the violence......as far as we can see, white shirt man isn't wearing a balaclava.

Also of interest, at least if you don't take everything at face value, is the fact the protestors all have their faces hidden, yet make only a brief appearance before disappearing rapidly leaving only one, easily identifiable, and vociferous individual.

And, as you say, why should Breitbart be present at what was a low key speech event, nothing more.

Conspiracy theories are easy to construct, certain UK tabloids excel in this respect as we know , but, and it's a big but, why did JRM leave the podium with an air of confidence when surely the golden rule for politicians is to remain in place and well out of any potential harms way when such disruption occurs.

No doubt the aspiring JB "Hercule Poirot's " can offer us their deductive reasoning here.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 11:27
  #13662 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
And, as you say, why should Breitbart be present at what was a low key speech event, nothing more.

Conspiracy theories are easy to construct, certain UK tabloids excel in this respect as we know , but, and it's a big but, why did JRM leave the podium with an air of confidence when surely the golden rule for politicians is to remain in place and well out of any potential harms way
Quite. White shirt started as a henchman, then became possibly only a groupie, now is most definitely a henchman. And as you say the presence of Breitbart and JRM's behaviour pretty well wrap it up - I don't normally go for conspiracy theories but it's difficult to dispute this one.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 13:04
  #13663 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
I don't normally go for conspiracy theories but it's difficult to dispute this one.
JRM hired a bunch of thugs to shut down his own speech? - I'd suggest that is a CT to far..
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 14:32
  #13664 (permalink)  
 
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A bit more interesting than sitting on the floor of a railway carriage.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 17:24
  #13665 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
A bit more interesting than sitting on the floor of a railway carriage.
Which leads nicely to an item just seen on tonights BBC News.....Stagecoach and the ECML.

Apparently, the situation is much worse than was made public a few, very few, months ago and they now want out....as of now.

The options, according to Grayling who probably doesn't even know where the ECML is anyway, are renationalise (which worked very well last time ) or operate as a "not for profit " company which will be an anathema to bearded rail and Stagecoach as we know.

However, the truly surreal bit ?......apparently, even if they walk away from this operation, there is nothing to legally prevent them bidding for a future franchise.

Hoorah for the British tax payers !....always there in the private sectors times of need !.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 17:31
  #13666 (permalink)  
 
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Corbyn and JR-M are two sides of the same coin. Neither offer anything positive for the country or it's people. Both are ideologically driven and hang the consequences, a plague on both their houses.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 17:57
  #13667 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
operate as a "not for profit " company which will be an anathema to bearded rail and Stagecoach as we know
I'm sure they'll be much happier with "not for profit" than with the current "guaranteed loss" arrangement.

Next time they sign a contract whose performance is dependent on the government delivering infrastructure as promised I suspect that they'll insist on penalty clauses should the government fail to keep its promises. But I have no sympathy - they're grown-ups and they should have got that right last time.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 18:02
  #13668 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Corbyn and JR-M are two sides of the same coin. Neither offer anything positive for the country or it's people. Both are ideologically driven and hang the consequences, a plague on both their houses.
I'd disagree with that. Some of the greatest advances have came from Politicians driven by ideology rather than expediency. A return to Politicians who actually believe in it what they say would be an advance in my view.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 18:04
  #13669 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Next time they sign a contract whose performance is dependent on the government delivering infrastructure as promised I suspect that they'll insist on penalty clauses should the government fail to keep its promises. But I have no sympathy - they're grown-ups and they should have got that right last time.
I agree - they wont take Government assurances at face value in the future but they should be held responsible if they didn't write that into the contract.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 20:13
  #13670 (permalink)  
 
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H
Originally Posted by Highway1 View Post
I'd disagree with that. Some of the greatest advances have came from Politicians driven by ideology rather than expediency. A return to Politicians who actually believe in it what they say would be an advance in my view.
Well then you will have to choose one or the other, trouble is, you may well end up with the wrong one.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 21:09
  #13671 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
H

Well then you will have to choose one or the other, trouble is, you may well end up with the wrong one.
Wouldn't that depend on your point of view?. Without ideological driven politicians we wouldn't have had the introduction of the Welfare state, the NHS, Nationalization etc. etc. - I suppose if you were against those policies you might have said that Atlee was the wrong politician for 1945..
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 04:50
  #13672 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
I'm sure they'll be much happier with "not for profit" than with the current "guaranteed loss" arrangement.

Next time they sign a contract whose performance is dependent on the government delivering infrastructure as promised I suspect that they'll insist on penalty clauses should the government fail to keep its promises. But I have no sympathy - they're grown-ups and they should have got that right last time.
True, in part, GTW, the bit about the infrastructure upgrade that is, however, something called sheer avaricious greed also played a part.....as in over bidding perhaps.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...rayling-admits

Given the route made a profit and was a success under public ownership previously, you would think this would be a logical solution to the current debacle.

Unfortunately, Tory privatisation dogma will almost certainly ensure this doesn't happen with Grayling involved.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 06:21
  #13673 (permalink)  
 
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When this last came up (Beardy dodging the bullet with a free pass from HM Government), the same allegations were raised re Network Rail not delivering infrastructure. I spent quite some time trying to research this and came up empty handed. I did find a lot of stuff written from Beardy Towers to Network Rail and the Rail Regulator etc, mainly griping about how their prospects were being damaged by the government allowing other, smaller operators being allowed to run the odd train on the same lines.
I am still interested in this fiasco (the one that merits a bloody big "Told you so!") and wondered if anyone can point to any specifics re delayed infrastructure.
Finally, isn't the East Coast infrastructure the same as it was when East Coast ran the service at a profit? Or have they ripped up some parts?
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 07:48
  #13674 (permalink)  
 
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“....conspiracy theories but it’s difficult to dispute this one”. Only if you’re a cheerleader for the toxic politics of intimidation of today’s hard-left. Considering Bristol anti fascist own web page boasts of the “complete success” of their operation your claim is nonsensical even by CT standards
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 08:49
  #13675 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Considering Bristol anti fascist own web page boasts of the “complete success” of their operation......
I guess the hard left have no concept of irony........
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 11:15
  #13676 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
the toxic politics of intimidation of today’s hard-left.
I thought she was soft-left (but I could be wrong), and I'd personally not class being punched in the face as "intimidation", I'd call it "assault". But maybe it counts as only "intimidation" if you're a right wing thug.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 13:34
  #13677 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sfm818 View Post
Not to be confused with the toxic politics of today's hard right. In the intrests of balance, here a few quotes from an alt-right spokesperson.
.

So the hard right and the hard left are just as bad as each other - its not exactly breaking news.

Going back to the incident the left-wing demonstrators were successful in their aim of shutting down the meeting - we have seen similar instances across the US where left-wing thugs want to prevent free speech. But I dont think anyone would claim that this is a preserve entirely of the Left, just that they seem to be better at it at the moment.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 13:36
  #13678 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Finally, isn't the East Coast infrastructure the same as it was when East Coast ran the service at a profit? Or have they ripped up some parts?
I'm sure that if Stagecoach were running the line on the same T&C's as DOR they wouldn't be complaining now - all that has happened is that they overbid and paid too much. So the end result is that the Government has got in more money than they otherwise would have.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 14:24
  #13679 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
“....conspiracy theories but it’s difficult to dispute this one”. Only if you’re a cheerleader for the toxic politics of intimidation of today’s hard-left. Considering Bristol anti fascist own web page boasts of the “complete success” of their operation your claim is nonsensical even by CT standards
Do you have a link to support this please ?

And even if you have, having watched the Breitbart video, along with the still unanswered question as to why they were at what was, in essence, a low key political meeting and address, the intrusion seems to be somewhat "staged" shall we say.

It begs more questions than answers in fact but that's probably just me and my enquiring mind not being prepared as I say to take any and everything at face value.

The prospect of many on here being called for jury service leaves a distinct feeling of unease really....based on the fact you would automatically assume anybody in court was guilty without questioning the evidence .
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 15:47
  #13680 (permalink)  
 
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Just google Bristol anti-fascist. It'll take you straight there; they're clearly proud of their nights work. Indeed they'd probably be upset at your inane bid to give the "credit" to those they describe as "Hitler-loving scum".

JRM is a leading politician. It's entirely normal for press to be at a meeting he was addressing. As for assuming guilt, I have no stance on who pushed who first but the "anti-fascists" are undeniably guilty of forcing their way into a meeting, masked up, with the sole intention of shouting down those speaking. Had it not been for the press and TV cameras, that would have been the end of the meeting: job done for the extremists. As has been "successfully" achieved many times against non-Momentum Labour figures
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