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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 15th Jan 2018, 17:58
  #13481 (permalink)  
 
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There ARE a number of them...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Nevill_Green

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Green
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 19:24
  #13482 (permalink)  
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But at least now we can understand your rationale and infatuation with the Tory mantra of privatisation......at any cost.
Remind me again when Labour was in power? Oh yes! 1997-2010...

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Old 15th Jan 2018, 21:01
  #13483 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I understand the point about multiple partners in a JV but each of the partners will be expected to have resources/assets etc to cover the costs of the contract. So, if one of them disappears, the others suddenly have to set aside more of their money for contingencies. Doesn't that leave the remaining partners vulnerable? Take away one leg of a stool and the stool remains but in a dodgy state.
Has the old practice of having to lodge bonds or bank guarantees with a tender gone away?
Of course, the workers will pay for all this. The banks will be top of the queue when the liquidators have done their business and realised some funds. Meanwhile, the poor sods who obeyed the various exhortations to get as much cash as possible into pension funds are asking the question "How can the company be allowed to get away with dipping into the pension fund and pinching half a billion?"
Of course it is merely coincidence that this company was led by a man named Philip Green!
The company hasn't been allowed to dip into the pension fund and pinch half a billion. A pension deficit is a debt due to the scheme from the sponsoring employer and any participating employers in the scheme.
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 23:06
  #13484 (permalink)  
 
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According to someone on the BBC (I think an employee and pension fund contributor), the company in this case has been "investing" their pension funds into the company.
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 23:46
  #13485 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
According to someone on the BBC (I think an employee and pension fund contributor), the company in this case has been "investing" their pension funds into the company.
The chairman of the trustee of the scheme (the scheme itself is almost certainly a corporate trustee, a legal entity in it's own right) is an extremely well known and respected professional within the pensions world. It is for the trustees (who are most likely directors of the corporate trustee) to decide where they invest the scheme funds not the company.

There are extremely heavy restrictions on trustees with regard to direct investment in the sponsoring or participating companies within the pension scheme(s) for rather obvious reasons.

if you are further interested this will give you some insight:

http://www.thepensionsregulator.gov....t-nov-2010.pdf
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 00:52
  #13486 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
According to someone on the BBC (I think an employee and pension fund contributor), the company in this case has been "investing" their pension funds into the company.
I thought that practice was banned after the Mirror fiasco with Captain Bob.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 04:28
  #13487 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
Can you? Why is that then? You are wrong by the way. I only support privatisation where it brings competition which, in the case of the railways, it doesn't.



It shouldn't, HS2 will release staged payments throughout the project and I presume the contract states that the JV would have enough to cover any works up to a certain point. The parent companies should not, in theory be involved financially until they split the profit at the end.
Hmmm ? does your first paragraph mean you support renationalisation of the railways then ?.....but I agree, it hasn't worked.

Privatisation or rather the private sector does work regarding competition.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work when the income stream is provided by....the UK taxpayer for contracts that are private in name only, but effectively public sector thereafter.

If you, and others, can, force yourselves to read this please....

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...orporate-greed

There were several pieces on C4 News last night, including one from a Minister, as Kelvin D posted, who clearly has no idea as to the reality of liquidation and the immediate effects it has, but here's one piece that really does show how proliferate the Tory "money tree " was......

https://www.channel4.com/news/labour...lion-collapses

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 16th Jan 2018 at 08:57.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 07:41
  #13488 (permalink)  
 
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yellowtriumph: Many thanks for the pensions link. Very educational. While looking into this, I discovered that Carillion's pension deficit is nothing compared to that other "too big to fail" giant, BAE Systems. £4.5 Billion!
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 08:38
  #13489 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
yellowtriumph: Many thanks for the pensions link. Very educational. While looking into this, I discovered that Carillion's pension deficit is nothing compared to that other "too big to fail" giant, BAE Systems. £4.5 Billion!
A lot of the DB schemes of very well known FTSE 100/250 companies are in deficit. The figures themselves, whilst looking very dramatic, aren't the 'be all and end all'. What is important is the covenant the employers have with their schemes and their ability to eliminate those deficits in a reasonable timescale.

The Carillion schemes haven't fallen into the PPF as some of the media describe it. The have entered 'a period of assessment' - a technical term used by the PPF to determine whether the members of the individual Cariilion schemes (up to 9 I think?) are better off inside or outside the PPF. This will take time and I can well understand the members will be very anxious about their future positions.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 09:13
  #13490 (permalink)  
 
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If the railways were nationalised then instead of just South Western and Cross Country EVERYBODY in the network would be on strike.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 11:00
  #13491 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
What is certain though is that nationalisation would cost a fortune, be used as an excuse for overspending for years and we would end up with a bloated an inefficient management & admin structure like the NHS and Military.
Isn't this already the case with National Rail?
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 12:27
  #13492 (permalink)  
 
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I struggle to see how nationalisation would improve anything when it was the failure of the nationalised part of the railways to deliver that led to Virgin walking away from the East Coast Line.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 16:30
  #13493 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
I struggle to see how nationalisation would improve anything when it was the failure of the nationalised part of the railways to deliver that led to Virgin walking away from the East Coast Line.
A little clarity for your somewhat opaque vision.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-rail-contract

Otherwise known as avaricious greed.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 17:33
  #13494 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
A little clarity for your somewhat opaque vision.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-rail-contract

Otherwise known as avaricious greed.
You need to get out more. The original contract was signed on somewhat optimistic traffic scenarios that would occur after the upgrade to the East Coast line, Network rail has failed to carry out those upgrades.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ast-coast-rail
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 18:37
  #13495 (permalink)  
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For information - that’s the nationalised bit......
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 20:13
  #13496 (permalink)  
 
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Once out of the EU and not forced to follow Brussels Diktat which I understand was responsible for there being separated track and train companies we could break up Network Rail and give sections of it along with stations to train operators so re-establishing LMS, LNER, GWR and SR and so on. Back to the status quo ante nationalisation post WW2. I bet it would work.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 21:13
  #13497 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wingswinger View Post
Once out of the EU and not forced to follow Brussels Diktat which I understand was responsible for there being separated track and train companies we could break up Network Rail and give sections of it along with stations to train operators so re-establishing LMS, LNER, GWR and SR and so on. Back to the status quo ante nationalisation post WW2. I bet it would work.
Cant be worse that what we have tried so far. The most successful time for the rail industry was when we had the big 4 so perhaps that's the way to have a Renaissance. After all Nationalisation was carried out so that the Government didnt have to pay full compensation to the railway companies for their use during the war.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 22:06
  #13498 (permalink)  
 
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I trust you read the last paragraph in that article?
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 22:47
  #13499 (permalink)  
 
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A bit more insight here:
David Horne, managing director of Virgin Trains East Coast said: “Together with Network Rail, we’re moving forward at great speed in transforming rail travel on the east coast
From August 2017.
Reading the plethora of correspondence on the ORR web site, I smell a rodent. In discussions with Network Rail it would seem that Virgin East Coast were a bit peeved by the proposal to allow "Limited Access services" in their patch which would impinge on their monopoly on the East Coast Line.
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Old 17th Jan 2018, 07:52
  #13500 (permalink)  
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When in doubt......blame others.

Carillion was left with just £29m before going bankrupt - BBC News

There's a certain irony to mentioning RBS really.....they had an "interesting approach " to small business's and loans.

It's the knock on effect on those sub contractors where the real damage will be felt. Still, when you've been awarded the odd £1m or two in bonus payments then you aren't really going to be overly concerned....

One for Prophead here with his inside experience of JV's

What are the chances of the staff being now made redundant being reemployed as a condition of a JV agreement ?
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