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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 27th Dec 2017, 19:04
  #13361 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
As long as you didn't bring up what he knew (or didn't know) about Cyril Smith, you should be fine.
That's Sir Cyril Smith to you - another worthy recipient of a knighthood
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Old 29th Dec 2017, 04:34
  #13362 (permalink)  
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One feels the lower photograph is considerably more photogenic and enjoyable to view than the top one........which would not be difficult.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ssified-papers

But it's no surprise to learn the unlamented deceased found the company of another of the same species as herself appealing.
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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 15:05
  #13363 (permalink)  
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And, by one of those "happy and fortunate coincidences " being absent from the UK on the day when the peasantry ( voters if you insist ) react is always useful.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rail-fare-hike

Funnily enough, this is hardly setting a precedent when it comes to the Tories......some will remember the location of a certain Minister when those rather inconvenient issues at Port Talbot surfaced.
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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 20:26
  #13364 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
And, by one of those "happy and fortunate coincidences " being absent from the UK on the day when the peasantry ( voters if you insist ) react is always useful.
I don't get the whole thing - why should people who choose a train-commuting lifestyle expect to be subsidised by those who choose more sustainable lifestyles?
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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 21:06
  #13365 (permalink)  
 
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+1 to that. Does thismean no politician is allowed now to conduct any business abroad when any price increase is being announced?
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 06:02
  #13366 (permalink)  
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The usual moan. Those earning more than the national average in the south-east and having made the most of property prices want the tax-payers in the rest of the country to subsidise their travel costs.

I have, over the decades, watched this cycle repeat several times. Those living the cities look at relative house prices and sell up, moving to the country side for a more rural lifestyle whilst pocketing a large sum of money whilst starting commuting to work. Supply being strained by demand the price of commuting goes up - which triggers vocal complaints about the costs involved.

To put it context, the Times had an article during the last week looking at house prices in the 10 most popular commuting areas around London as more people do as I say above. In Brighton, For example, house value has, on average, increased by about £25-35K.

Meanwhile those who do not commute earn far less and are being priced out of Brighton to other areas along the coast outside range of the London rail line. A syndrome known as “London prices and south coast wages”.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...nham-b7ldmfjpk

....”The Halifax data for 2017 shows that the biggest house price increases in cash terms came in the London boroughs of Richmond upon Thames and Barnet, where rises of nearly 8 per cent translated to an extra £45,463 and £41,697, respectively. The east London borough of Newham had the fastest rising property prices in the capital, up more than 10 per cent to an average of £402,781.

Other top risers included Brighton (11.4 per cent) and Crawley, West Sussex (just over 10 per cent).”.....

Last edited by ORAC; 3rd Jan 2018 at 06:21.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 06:06
  #13367 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
I don't get the whole thing - why should people who choose a train-commuting lifestyle expect to be subsidised by those who choose more sustainable lifestyles?
I'm sure you do understand really GTW, even if like me the commuting life style has never appealed because the price rises come at a rather unfortunate moment in the state of the UK economy.

That, and the track record of Graying isn't exactly glowing with success. His bountiful generosity towards the ECML isn't going down too well, but, not a problem as the taxpayers are conveniently available when the private sector runs out of money.

And,when all else fails, what better fall back than the tried and tested "it's all Labour's and ( this bit will set some hearts surging on here ) the unions fault ".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rail-fare-hike

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-hikes-cartoon
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 10:20
  #13368 (permalink)  
 
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A letter in today's Times gives the cost of a season ticket between Birmingham and London Euston at £10,567. While this may sound excessive, it works out at £0.22p a mile, a fraction of the cost of going by car before you even begin to factor in parking fees and the congestion charge.
Why should the taxpayer subsidise someone else's lifestyle choice?.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 11:01
  #13369 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
A letter in today's Times gives the cost of a season ticket between Birmingham and London Euston at £10,567. While this may sound excessive, it works out at £0.22p a mile, a fraction of the cost of going by car before you even begin to factor in parking fees and the congestion charge.
Why should the taxpayer subsidise someone else's lifestyle choice?.
Siti old boy !

A wonderful piece of understatement there then.....£10.5k doesn't merely sound excessive....it is excessive ! It is, and can be I assure you, considerably cheaper to escape from either of the two great Blots on the British landscape.....which is more polite than describing them as ( rude word ) holes.

That, and you have to love that other JB favourite, semantics, this time not with the usual English language but with maths. Quite how the 0.22p per mile is arrived at would be interesting to learn. There's always that inconvenient word "variables " to take into consideration....

Thus a detailed cost breakdown as to how this figure has been calculated would be interesting to read.....over to thee in this respect then.

But, when it comes to subsidising lifestyles, who better to be subsidised than the deserving poor, those whose life would to torn asunder if their meagre sources of income were removed.....

The Four Big Myths of UK Rail Privatisation ? Action For Rail
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 11:57
  #13370 (permalink)  
 
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I do wonder why so many trains in the UK are "privately" operated by the German state-owned railway.

Just a question really - if the Germans run such an efficient railway that they can even export their expertise, why couldn't/can't we operate our own railway without foreign assistance that takes away a profit?
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 12:02
  #13371 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
A letter in today's Times gives the cost of a season ticket between Birmingham and London Euston at £10,567. While this may sound excessive, it works out at £0.22p a mile, a fraction of the cost of going by car before you even begin to factor in parking fees and the congestion charge.
Why should the taxpayer subsidise someone else's lifestyle choice?.
In today's paper,
Mick Cash, the general secretary of the RMT Union, on Tuesday led protests against rail fare rises and condemned them as the "Great Train Robbery".

However The Telegraph can disclose that Mr Cash told members of his union last year that increases in fares were “significant” because they would lead to bigger pay rises for rail workers.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 12:08
  #13372 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234

Just a question really - if the Germans run such an efficient railway that they can even export their expertise, why couldn't/can't we operate our own railway without foreign assistance that takes away a profit?
In a word dogma. Cue protestations that publicly owned rail would be managed in the same way as 40 years ago, with all that implies.

Last edited by Curious Pax; 3rd Jan 2018 at 12:10. Reason: Do quote better!
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 12:44
  #13373 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Curious Pax View Post
In a word dogma. Cue protestations that publicly owned rail would be managed in the same way as 40 years ago, with all that implies.
That's a good answer to Sallyann's question.

Another part being the reverence to privatisation .....at any cost.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...owners-subsidy

http://neweconomics.org/2017/01/railways-failed-next/

So we might as well chuck in energy and utility suppliers to add to the list as well.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 12:48
  #13374 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
I'm sure you do understand really GTW, even if like me the commuting life style has never appealed because the price rises come at a rather unfortunate moment in the state of the UK economy.
Well yes, I understand that through the political process we decide that we will prefer some lifestyle choices over others, and show this through taxpayer subsidies. I choose to question this particular preference.

Nobody, for example, subsidises my lifestyle choice - choosing to spend more on a house so that I can live within cycling distance of work.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 13:59
  #13375 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Curious Pax View Post
In a word dogma. Cue protestations that publicly owned rail would be managed in the same way as 40 years ago, with all that implies.
I dont notice that we have any massive different caliber in politicians from 40 years ago so why would the current lot be any better at running a railroad than previous showers?
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 14:34
  #13376 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Quite how the 0.22p per mile is arrived at would be interesting to learn. There's always that inconvenient word "variables " to take into consideration....

Thus a detailed cost breakdown as to how this figure has been calculated would be interesting to read.....
My calculations agree with the figure of 22p (22.3877p per mile actually).

According to a mapping application, the distance is 118 miles (236 miles per day).
I was told (many years ago) that, without holidays, there are 200 working days per year - rule of thumb, maybe . . .

Of course the season ticket allows for additional journeys outside working days, but that isn't mandatory.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 15:06
  #13377 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Quite how the 0.22p per mile is arrived at would be interesting to learn. There's always that inconvenient word "variables " to take into consideration....
Broadly agree with the mathematics and with G-CPTN's verification.

The season ticket is £10,567 per annum.

Track miles (rail version thereof) from Birmingham New Street to London Euston is 112 miles (source). The maximum number of working days* per year is 232 (source).

The total miles travelled per year thus 51,968. (232 x (112 x 2)).

Thus cost per year 20.33p/mile assuming all days worked and season ticket not used for any other purpose.

Now that one person has made the claim and two people have verified it, care to answer the question as to why you were so skeptical about the figures in the first place?

Last edited by Charley; 3rd Jan 2018 at 15:08. Reason: * - for a normal, 5-day per week employed position
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 16:19
  #13378 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
In today's paper,
Mick Cash, the general secretary of the RMT Union, on Tuesday led protests against rail fare rises and condemned them as the "Great Train Robbery".

However The Telegraph can disclose that Mr Cash told members of his union last year that increases in fares were “significant” because they would lead to bigger pay rises for rail workers.
In December 2016 the RMT President, Sean Hoyle said, "If we all spit together, we can drown the bastards".

This was a clear indication that the transport unions were using strikes, not to improve rail conditions, but to destabilise the government.
They don't give a shit about the passengers, any argument to the contrary is lies.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 16:23
  #13379 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Charley View Post
Broadly agree with the mathematics and with G-CPTN's verification.

The season ticket is £10,567 per annum.

Track miles (rail version thereof) from Birmingham New Street to London Euston is 112 miles (source). The maximum number of working days* per year is 232 (source).

The total miles travelled per year thus 51,968. (232 x (112 x 2)).

Thus cost per year 20.33p/mile assuming all days worked and season ticket not used for any other purpose.

Now that one person has made the claim and two people have verified it, care to answer the question as to why you were so skeptical about the figures in the first place?
It's the way the OP was written that caused the problem. Had Siti simply put 22p per mile then I don't think this would have arisen. I must admit to doing a double take when I read it as 0.22p per mile. Now that would have been a bargain. I would query the statement about the cost compared to travelling by car. My Mercedes C220 has average 60.5 mpg over the last 11,000 miles. Fuel cost at current 117p a litre works out at 8.6p per mile. That leaves 13.4p for all other costs. Assuming that you have a car already then tax and insurance costs can be discounted, so that leaves around £6500 for wear and tear and extra servicing costs. It's do- able.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 17:03
  #13380 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Assuming that you have a car already then tax and insurance costs can be discounted
Woah - that's a jump.

We are comparing a season ticket rather than a casual daily journey.

If you want to use a car for commuting, then it's likely that vehicle provision will be a major consideration rather than an incidental.
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