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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 12th Dec 2017, 10:33
  #13301 (permalink)  
 
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OK, I give in. I must confess that I actually do like Trump.
There's no other head of state anywhere in the world who provides as much entertainment as he does.
Not only here in this thread, or in the obvious fake news one frequently encounters, oh no, I have now gone to the length of acquiring a Twitter account and befriended the Man so I can get real time updates on his Tweets the very moment they occur.
And boy, o'boy, he does not disappoint.
Per
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 11:05
  #13302 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
Quite why you feel the need to continually prove my point then try to argue against your own freely provided evidence is confusing but at the same time extremely amusing.

You provided a rather conclusive link at #13505 confirming the point the minister made then at #13539 Jet offers you some interesting food for thought which you now confirm to be the case with the above missive.

There is a definite and undeniable reason why successive governments have had to resort to legislation to enforce business to employ physically and mentally challenged employees but it would appear you are incapable of joining the dots as to why that is.

The question to maybe ask yourself is do you honestly think that without all the current legislation would business's up and down the country be employing physically and mentally challenged employees in the numbers they currently and if not why not?
I am sure you do find my stance on disability and the disabled within the UK working environments to be amusing. But again, this comment merely reflects your own views as to the disabled and thus far I have no recollection of offering any supportive view, or links, that you construe as being evidence of supporting your stance.

And an interesting choice of terms in the above, "physically and mentally challenged" rather than disabled and impaired.

The link in question, which I deliberately selected and read through prior to posting, does in fact contain a subliminal narrative within the three negatives.

If you feel Jet11 offered "food for thought" then malnutrition can be added to death from thirst.

The legislation is there as a result of an entrenched demographic within society displaying open prejudice and hostility towards the disabled ( C4 News airs frequent articles to exemplify this hostility ) prejudice which is unwarranted and uncalled for and which reflects abysmally on those who engage in or support ( tacitly or directly ) the discrimination towards the disabled.

A search will reveal an abundance, an over abundance in fact, of tribunals and case law showing that the legislation in which you put so much faith, is, in fact, being ignored by many employers.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 11:18
  #13303 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
A search will reveal an abundance, an over abundance in fact, of tribunals and case law showing that the legislation in which you put so much faith, is, in fact, being ignored by many employers.
I posed you a very simply and easily answerable question when I suggested that there has to be a reason why we have the whole gambit of legislation that we currently have.

Why do we need to legislate to enforce business to employ disabled or impaired members of our society?

Why, as you quite correctly state are some employers ignoring that legislation?

Prior to all of this legislation why was it so difficult, if not impossible for disabled or impaired folk to get into work?

Despite your very best efforts all you are continuing to do is prove the ministers point as the above 'quote' from your last post quite clearly indicates.

You will hate me for suggesting this but maybe it is time to stop digging chap
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 12:01
  #13304 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
I posed you a very simply and easily answerable question when I suggested that there has to be a reason why we have the whole gambit of legislation that we currently have.

Why do we need to legislate to enforce business to employ disabled or impaired members of our society?

Why, as you quite correctly state are some employers ignoring that legislation?

Prior to all of this legislation why was it so difficult, if not impossible for disabled or impaired folk to get into work?

Despite your very best efforts all you are continuing to do is prove the ministers point as the above 'quote' from your last post quite clearly indicates.

You will hate me for suggesting this but maybe it is time to stop digging chap
And the reasons for legislation have been exemplified many times on here.

I agree, it's futile to continue offering incontrovertible evidence to the contrary therefore, because the sheer obduracy of your responses in the face of factual content is unparalleled. The holes you have managed to dig for yourself put Crossrail to shame in many respects.

But I've no doubt you will perceive this cessation of the issue as being a capitulation and will receive several supportive comments from kindred spirits.

Which will be nice really because it will show the prejudices towards the disabled are far from fictitious.

So now you can resume your other fixation.....Momentum.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 12:29
  #13305 (permalink)  
 
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And right on cue

Momentum activist suspended from Labour after posting mock video of councillors 'Jewish dancing' - Mirror Online

There does seem to be an unnatural desire within labour toward anti semitism.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 12:30
  #13306 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Jet: In yet another example of your ability to answer an argument that hasn't been made, you answer my point with "If disabled people normally had higher productivity that non-disabled" (should that not be "than"?). Where exactly did I make that pronouncement?
so in a discussion about whether marginal workers have lower productivity than able bodied whats your point?

I mean I've seen a monkey riding a bike but it wouldn’t lead me to claim that a monkey is capable of winning the Tour de France..
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 07:34
  #13307 (permalink)  
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From The Times, buried in the “news in brief” section, after a story about a missing student. very, very buried.....

Davidson could be MP

Ruth Davidson, leader of the Scottish Conservatives, has said that she would consider running for a Westminster seat. She was focused on Scottish elections in 2021, she said, but could be ready “to start other conversations” after the race. Asked if those could include finding a Scottish constituency in the Commons, Ms Davidson, 39, said: “Yes.”
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 07:40
  #13308 (permalink)  
 
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Let's not get carried away by the wee lassie. She's gold in Holyrood but it may not work in Westminster always assuming she would win her seat. For example, she couldn't have cut the deal with the DUP because of her personal prejudices. Or else she would have to have put them aside. But that's politics, isn't it? Which occupant of a 'safe seat' will step aside for her? Is there a 'safe' seat for a Conservative in Scotland?
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 10:02
  #13309 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wingswinger View Post
For example, she couldn't have cut the deal with the DUP because of her personal prejudices. Or else she would have to have put them aside.
Which personal prejudices would they be?

CG
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 10:06
  #13310 (permalink)  
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Is there a 'safe' seat for a Conservative in Scotland?
Usually easy to find a safe seat; find an MP in their sixties and offer them a seat in the HoL and a couple of directorships on a Quango or two.
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 11:18
  #13311 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
Which personal prejudices would they be?

CG
I think that might have been ironic in view of the prejudices of the DUP.
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 12:35
  #13312 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
I think that might have been ironic in view of the prejudices of the DUP.
I'd hope so!

CG
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 15:26
  #13313 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Wingswinger View Post
Let's not get carried away by the wee lassie. She's gold in Holyrood but it may not work in Westminster always assuming she would win her seat. For example, she couldn't have cut the deal with the DUP because of her personal prejudices. Or else she would have to have put them aside. But that's politics, isn't it? Which occupant of a 'safe seat' will step aside for her? Is there a 'safe' seat for a Conservative in Scotland?
By the time the Blessed one ( about to become redundant ) has finished, ably assisted by her stalwart cabinet, and the ramifications of Brexit start to hit home, not forgetting inflation and a few other policies although she can always revert to the now standard "U" turn, there won't really be that many safe Tory seats anywhere in the UK. other than those inhabited by the faithful ( same applies to Labour of course, the Lib Dems tend to fluctuate )

The problem for the entrenched, boring, morally decrepit and otherwise superfluous to society Tory white middle / upper class male upper echelons in the South, as in South of Scotland is that Ms Davidson is an asset, one they desperately need to regain any semblance of credibility and any assets in the Tory party tend to be viewed as threats.

She is also a potential leader and would make a very good one in my less than humble opinion.

As for her prejudices, and lets be honest, the DUP are hardly paragons of virtue now are they, this is possibly the incident Wingers alluded to. ....care to confirm old chap ?

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...statement-tory

Apart from the current token gesture at the top, and not forgetting one T. Villiers, the Tories have some very capable and competent female MP's and one more would be more than a shade beneficial for them......so they'll probably try and find a way to negate her.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 13th Dec 2017 at 16:04.
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 18:38
  #13314 (permalink)  
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Mirror, mirror on the wall.....

“The problem for the entrenched, boring, morally decrepit and otherwise superfluous to society metropolitan Labour white middle / upper class male echelons in the South”......
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 04:03
  #13315 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Mirror, mirror on the wall.....

“The problem for the entrenched, boring, morally decrepit and otherwise superfluous to society metropolitan Labour white middle / upper class male echelons in the South”......
Tsk tsk ORAC.....you are slipping !......you can do much better than resorting to the "delete " / "insert" response so often favoured here on JB by those who are somewhat devoid of the ability to articulate their own responses.

2017....

Some on here may have missed the fact we are currently living in this year given their nostalgia for the past......

Here's a summary of the year for you..... please try and show some social decorum when reading this over brekkies.... chaps...it's jolly unbecoming of adults to redistribute their food from the plate or bowl across the room after all....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...sa-westminster
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 06:10
  #13316 (permalink)  
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Businesses fear Corbyn’s Britain would go bust in three years

Bankers, business leaders and economists have raised concerns about the economic effects if Jeremy Corbyn is elected to Downing Street.

A director on the boards of two financial services companies said that they had stress-tested a Corbyn victory and it was a frightening prospect. Their models suggested a combination of high interest rates, inflation, capital controls and credit rating downgrades. “The UK would be bust in three years,” the source said......

Analysts at Credit Suisse said in a recent research note that Labour’s plans to increase spending by 2 per cent of gross domestic product while raising taxes were likely to increase the deficit. The Swiss broker said that the public finances would “deteriorate sharply” because the top 1 per cent of taxpayers accounted for 27 per cent of all income tax and there was a “risk of substantial capital flight”. It added that “if Labour were to threaten a punitive tax regime, many of the top 1 per cent [of earners], who are highly mobile, would leave the UK”.

Steve Davies, a fund manager at Jupiter, a City investment firm, said that recent progress in Brexit talks had made an election and Corbyn victory less likely, but it could not be “discounted completely”. “A fall in the pound and a further slowdown in GDP growth would likely follow,” he said. Edi Truell, a private equity investor and former adviser to Boris Johnson, has said that investors have told him that they do want to invest in Britain because of Mr Corbyn. His comments featured alongside those of several private equity firms in the Financial Times.........
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 09:05
  #13317 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
Unfortunately, to the average momentum idiot, the banks and big business losing money is high on their wish list. The fact this will have a huge knock on effect to everyone, especially those that rely on a pension, is completely lost on them.
Ah, Proppers....more soothsaying as to your dystopian vision of the future.

Like the bit about the pensions as well......that would be me then. Alas, I'm not a momentum supporter and, as yet, I've seen nothing to support how momentum are single handily going to reduce the UK economy to tatters,

However, while you're here, a quick question please.

Why, if your Ctrl Alt Del society and ecommerce is the panacea to the tedium of actually physically talking and trading, have Barclay's been running a long established series of adverts, at peak times no less, and let's be honest, banks aren't known for chucking their own money ( only other peoples ) away in futile gestures warning of the dangers of internet fraud?
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 12:16
  #13318 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post

Analysts at Credit Suisse said in a recent research note that Labour’s plans to increase spending by 2 per cent of gross domestic product while raising taxes were likely to increase the deficit. The Swiss broker said that the public finances would “deteriorate sharply” because the top 1 per cent of taxpayers accounted for 27 per cent of all income tax and there was a “risk of substantial capital flight”. It added that “if Labour were to threaten a punitive tax regime, many of the top 1 per cent [of earners], who are highly mobile, would leave the UK”..
perhaps that would be a good thing - after all every generation needs an economic crisis to show that socialism doesn’t work..
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 12:50
  #13319 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
You are showing your ignorance yet again, saying ecommerce has no future because of internet fraud is like saying you shouldn't buy a house as it may get burgled.

I will put the question back to you. Why, when Barclays and others are running these adverts about internet fraud are they also spending millions on building and upgrading their online banking systems and web presence?

The fact you seem to think the online world has no future yet include a link to the online version of the Guardian in 90% of the posts you make in an online forum almost every day makes me chuckle too.
Well first, I've never said ecommerce doesn't have a future. Society progresses as technology advances.... for example canals, railways and sea / air travel all of which brought their own dangers to the public and still do in fact, but many of the dangers have now been remedied.

Ecommerce is embryonic and if it was so safe and secure, there would be no need for this link and the contents....

https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-online-fraud

Banks....true, they are developing their systems because they have a very valid reason for doing so.....well two actually. One is customer confidence / retention and the other is that they are the source of the money for these frauds....keeping money in a tin under the bed is a shade passé really.

Correct however, when you note I send links from the Guardian ( £5 pm and worth every penny as we know ) so I'm delighted to learn Steve Bell's satirical cartoons appeal to your sense of humour.
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 13:19
  #13320 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
That is not the reason they are online in the first place, A huge amount of people want their bank to be online and have easy access to internet banking.



That is a bit like saying, if air travel was so safe then why would we need accident investigators.

My December Amazon sales have been through the roof, even better than last year so you are in the minority to distrust ecommerce it would seem.

Nothing is 100% safe but if you look at the sheer numbers of people using the internet and ecommerce against the number of frauds it is very small.
Correct, people do want easy access....as do those who are fraudulent in their intent.....always helps if you can acquire the money you've just scammed somebody out of after all.

These figures however seem to speak for themselves......

https://www.financialfraudaction.org..._the_facts.pdf
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